DelGreco

Parramore's Future: Highrise Development or No?

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Uh, these are the people who work at Hughes Supply, not the low income people who live in the building, right?

Could be but I don't think so, it was around 7pm. Looks like a nice mix of professionals living there. CityView appears to be catering to high end tenants. I could see myself living in a CityView type highrise/midrise between I-4 and Parramore....it's within walking distance to everything! Plus I wouldn't have to pay $450K for 700sqft....at least not for the first few developments as the transformation is occuring.

In any case, to me Parramore Ave would be the westside Summerlin Ave. Between Summerlin and Parramore would be the Central Business District permitting multi-use highrises. Beyond these two streets the residential and mixed-use zoning would dominate.

Maybe it's my perception but you see the small pockets of renovation starting to take off. And once a few owners start renovating....it's contagious! :whistling: And once the drug dealers and prostitutes see this mass effort for cleaning, I think they will naturally move somewhere else since they hate the spotlight of attention on them.

Has anyone heard anything about the status of the Public Safety Complex? I heard rumors of possible mixed-use development instead or even a new Arena for that location. Like I said, just rumors from local owners and not the from City officials. A new Arena with integral Hotel/Restaurants wouldn't be so bad for that area.

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Having lived for a while in Chicago, I have seen how they have transformed blighted areas into trendy communities. The key isn't to build brand new (in our case, stucco) buildings and make everything beautiful, but to make it a place where people want to be. How do you do that?

1. Get crime, bums and loiterers (the groups standing in front of the liquor stores) off of the streets.

2. Create a niche market that appeals to both the poorer black communities and the trendy, yuppie, white communities. This can be done by opening a trendy soul food, southern cooking, breakfast or creole restaraunt in a nicer location, trendy import furniture shops, eclectic record stores, jazz or blues clubs, etc. Make it a place people want to go.

3. New condo development combined with lower income townhome development. Make it look like a city and not a row of run down cigar homes. Brick stands out, is more "city-like" and lasts longer. Use brick!

4. Re-brick the streets, improve street lighting and an overall "cleaning".

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2. Create a niche market that appeals to both the poorer black communities and the trendy, yuppie, white communities.

What about trendy, yuppie non white people? :D

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What about trendy, yuppie non white people? :D

Of course.

There was a reasoning for me mentioning the color of the skin in that sentence, though. There is no denying that there is a segment of the population that would visit or live in a revitalized, former poorer minority, area in order to get the feeling that they are "slumming it".

*Keep in mind, this isn't necessarilly my opinion but something that cannot be denied that goes on.

This is similar to the groups of suburban youths who trek into the city to visit trendy, sometimes run down, areas. The suburban Atlanta crowd that goes to Little Five-Points to hang out with the dred locked hippies and others. The suburban Philadelphia crowd that goes to South Street to hang out with the same types. The suburban Chicago crowd that goes to Belmont and The Alley. It provides them with a sense of escape. To leave the mundane suburban live and visit something new, different and even controversial. This happens in primarilly black communities also.

Sure, it is offensive, but it provides a way of some-how legitimising a community such as this. No longer is it an area where crime scares people from visiting, but it is an area where the culture is (in a wierd way) embraced by the outside. It is a careful balancing act and there is a way to pull it off.

Is it exploitative of the urban culture? More than likely, yes.

Is that a price some would pay for a revitalized Paramore complete with multiple cultures and income levels living together? More than likely, yes.

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I agree with the escapism, but the cities that you mentioned are very different from Parramore. If it had that culture, the neighborhood would have already gentrified. Also, those cities have something that is hard to mimic. Parramore has nothing going for it. I have been down there and found nothing exciting about it. It does not have the characters and the flavor that Chicago, NY or DC has. There are a couple of restaurants but that is it. And they are not a big enough draw people in. If Jazz stores and Reggae shops open up now, it really would not be authentic. But, Parramore is an opportunity for a real urban experiment a truly integrated neighborhood (hopefully).

Edited by jack

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I agree with the escapism, but the cities that you mentioned are very different from Parramore. If it had that culture, the neighborhood would have already gentrified. Also, those cities have something that is hard to mimic. Parramore has nothing going for it. I have been down there and found nothing exciting about it. It does not have the characters and the flavor that Chicago, NY or DC has. There are a couple of restaurants but that is it. And they are not a big enough draw people in. If Jazz stores and Reggae shops open up now, it really would not be authentic. But, Parramore is an opportunity for a real urban experiment a truly integrated neighborhood (hopefully).

There ARE reggae stores in the neighborhood. The check cashing liquor stores are definitely a problem. I think a good look would be brick buildings with a French Quarter look that Church Street Station once had. If someone would go into the Ebenezer Church and turn it into a night club, that would be very cool. Have the bouncers at the door wearing hooded robes like Franciscan monks, a fog machine rolling out a small amount of fog near the door giving a hint of mystery. Definitely needs Jazz. Heck, downtown anywhere needs a jazz club. Last time I checked, we haven't had any since the old Sapphire Supper Club used to be the Downtown Jazz and Blues Club.

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There ARE reggae stores in the neighborhood. The check cashing liquor stores are definitely a problem. I think a good look would be brick buildings with a French Quarter look that Church Street Station once had. If someone would go into the Ebenezer Church and turn it into a night club, that would be very cool. Have the bouncers at the door wearing hooded robes like Franciscan monks, a fog machine rolling out a small amount of fog near the door giving a hint of mystery. Definitely needs Jazz. Heck, downtown anywhere needs a jazz club. Last time I checked, we haven't had any since the old Sapphire Supper Club used to be the Downtown Jazz and Blues Club.

I think there's a jazz club in the Westin Grand Bohemian, but it's likely a fortune. Club Swank, which used to be Cactus Club on Mills, is also a supposed jazz club. I have been to neither.

You are all feeling the same way I am. Parramore needs a draw. It would be easy to bulldoze it and put up condos. The hard thing would be to make it an eclectic neighborhood full of life, culture as well as having a trendy or upscale feel.

I guess it doesn't help much that food isn't a huge draw in this town. Too many people are content with their Olive Gardens and Outbacks to try something new if it were to open. We could use a more upscale southern cooking/soul food type place.

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I think there's a jazz club in the Westin Grand Bohemian, but it's likely a fortune.

The Bosendorfer Lounge... It's more of martini lounge-type place than a jazz club, i'd say. It's very nice, laid-back. It's not cheap, but it's not as bad as the Blue Martinis out there. The music is more Chill than true jazz, at least the times that I've been there. All in all, it's a nice place, but not really a jazz club, at least in the traditional sense that I'm thinking was implied in the earlier post.

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The Bosendorfer Lounge... It's more of martini lounge-type place than a jazz club, i'd say. It's very nice, laid-back. It's not cheap, but it's not as bad as the Blue Martinis out there. The music is more Chill than true jazz, at least the times that I've been there. All in all, it's a nice place, but not really a jazz club, at least in the traditional sense that I'm thinking was implied in the earlier post.

Cool. I drove by there on one Friday night and saw a pianist and guitarist playing music. I wish we did have a nice jazz club that had live smooth jazz in a nice dark room. I'm reminded of a place I went to when I was visiting South Bend, Indiana. Of all places in the country, they had a fabulous jazz club. I spent an entire night in there and never wanted to leave. There was a live band playing almost everything you could imagine from the Smooth Jazz radio station. It was great. I miss that night.... :cry:

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DO you think Orlando CItyPlace is a bad idea to put it in Parramore? I don't think so. Granted they are starting small by renovating the old Holiday Inn first, but I think it is a great investment in the future of Parramore. There will be approx. 5000 students and professionals walking those streets on a daily basis. DO you think some mix-use highrise development will be needed? Hmmm.....

Orlando CityPlace

The British are coming!!!

Today's Sentinel coverage......Orlando Project Scales New Heights

Wow, could this be real? Finally a new High in Parramore?!? :shok: It makes sense! I am truly happy for DT Orlando's future! Enjoy it! I feel the momentum....I just hope they stop those interest rate hikes! :thumbsup:

Last week I was in Berlin and I saw a german magazine on the newsstand called "Florida Sun". I looked inside and sure enough this project was featured amongst many others around Florida.

I guess the Germans are coming too! :yahoo::yahoo: (the more the merrier!)

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Well, this week is my monthly visit to the city I like to call "Urban Delight". I drove by the proposed Orlando CityPlace site and noticed the shaping of The Lexington (old Holiday Inn). Once they complete the facade and remove all the scaffolding it will actually look great from I-4. What a drive it would be if 55W, Presidential, TT, Vue, etc all get built!

I see alot of negative people on this forum regarding Parramore and it's future. I guess it must be the same people who refuse to raise taxes for mass transit and education. Eventually traffic will get bad enough and their minds will be more open to fresh visionary ideas.

I am starting to admire the CItyPlace developers for their wit. It appears as though they are "nickel and diming" this project but what they are actually doing is mitigating their risk. It also makes financial sense too. If they are successful in selling out the Lexington (which I am sure they will), it will truly demonstrate to the lenders that there is a market for Parramore and the west side of I-4. Now I understand why they want to do it in phases.....it's called Finances and Risk Mitigation!

I look at this area around Lake Dot in front of the Arena and I see a new destination with lots of foot traffic. Those 4-5 upscale homes on the west side of Lake Dot do not fit in. Wouldn't this make a great spot for Hotels/Restaurants next to a much needed downtown convention center? Get rid of those houses and that new DayCare center the Kiwanis Club built. What a waste of valuable property. I guess they were bought out by the DOT when they were located under the 408, I am sure they can be bought out again. And that Salvation Army residence.....Condos, condos, condo! Why not convert the Arena into a downtown CityWalk? With the FAMU and UCF expansion in this area, I truly see a need for housing, restaurants, and entertainment in this area.....and it is all within walking distance to the Central Business District.

Am I insane?.......sorry folks, I guess I need to control my imagination! It must be all that culture and cold weather in Europe that is getting to me! :whistling:

p.s. The fact one of the partners in this venture is greek gives me a warm feeling (just kidding) :huh: ....afterall we learned most things from the Greeks! (good and bad) :rofl:

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Well, this week is my monthly visit to the city I like to call "Urban Delight". I drove by the proposed Orlando CityPlace site and noticed the shaping of The Lexington (old Holiday Inn). Once they complete the facade and remove all the scaffolding it will actually look great from I-4. What a drive it would be if 55W, Presidential, TT, Vue, etc all get built!

I see alot of negative people on this forum regarding Parramore and it's future. I guess it must be the same people who refuse to raise taxes for mass transit and education. Eventually traffic will get bad enough and their minds will be more open to fresh visionary ideas.

I am starting to admire the CItyPlace developers for their wit. It appears as though they are "nickel and diming" this project but what they are actually doing is mitigating their risk. It also makes financial sense too. If they are successful in selling out the Lexington (which I am sure they will), it will truly demonstrate to the lenders that there is a market for Parramore and the west side of I-4. Now I understand why they want to do it in phases.....it's called Finances and Risk Mitigation!

I look at this area around Lake Dot in front of the Arena and I see a new destination with lots of foot traffic. Those 4-5 upscale homes on the west side of Lake Dot do not fit in. Wouldn't this make a great spot for Hotels/Restaurants next to a much needed downtown convention center? Get rid of those houses and that new DayCare center the Kiwanis Club built. What a waste of valuable property. I guess they were bought out by the DOT when they were located under the 408, I am sure they can be bought out again. And that Salvation Army residence.....Condos, condos, condo! Why not convert the Arena into a downtown CityWalk? With the FAMU and UCF expansion in this area, I truly see a need for housing, restaurants, and entertainment in this area.....and it is all within walking distance to the Central Business District.

Am I insane?.......sorry folks, I guess I need to control my imagination! It must be all that culture and cold weather in Europe that is getting to me! :whistling:

p.s. The fact one of the partners in this venture is greek gives me a warm feeling (just kidding) :huh: ....afterall we learned most things from the Greeks! (good and bad) :rofl:

The vue and 55w is actually under construction.

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Parramore is a trash hole. there's nothing but shacks and shanties and run down slum houses, mixed in with nice street lamps on Parramore and those nice houses on Lake Dot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that condo project going up on Washington just west of the Fed Cthse? What's it called again?

There's other project also slated for that area already in the works. Its just a matter of buing the crap, razing it to the ground, and building something nice in its place.

Why they want to preserve the "Parramore" name or identity is beyond me. Unless they can transform its image...

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Division Ave is the key to "Federal Square" and the surrounding area right now. While they are in the name change game, why not change Division? Federal Street?

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Division Ave is the key to "Federal Square" and the surrounding area right now. While they are in the name change game, why not change Division? Federal Street?

There already is a Federal Street. It's on the other side of the arena. And where did they come up with Federal Square? There's no open square or plaza. It's more like Federal Line or Federal Spot.

Edited by bulldogger

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Parramore is a trash hole. there's nothing but shacks and shanties and run down slum houses, mixed in with nice street lamps on Parramore and those nice houses on Lake Dot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that condo project going up on Washington just west of the Fed Cthse? What's it called again?

There's other project also slated for that area already in the works. Its just a matter of buing the crap, razing it to the ground, and building something nice in its place.

Why they want to preserve the "Parramore" name or identity is beyond me. Unless they can transform its image...

JRS, I am in total agreement with you, there is little worth keeping in Parramore, except for the name and maybe two or three building considered historic. Parramore can be molded into whatever the City and the Mayor wants it to be. I think the market and the investment potential will determine and drive it's future destiny. Mark my words, in a few years "Parramore" will become a drop word used at cocktail parties and will become a hip trendy place to be seen. More importantly it will cater and be affordable to the average joe, like me! It will allow most with mid and some with low incomes to experience the urban downtown lifestyle. The commuting nightmare especially for those that work downtown should be eliminated once that side starts offering affordable living options.

As far as The Terrace at Federal Square (Washington and Division), it will become a nice urban hub to hang out with all the Federal employees and FAMU Law students hanging out in the this square/plaza after the Division Ave Streetscape is completed. I would love to own one of those 43 condos in The Terrace....wonder how much they are going for.

The sad thing is a realtor offered me that Terrace corner lot for $26K 3 years ago and I passed on it.....how dumb! Today it is worth between $500K and $1M. Oh well....that's "Parramore for you! If you are an investor/developer I see this area as ripe for making $$$. The overpriced East side of downtown will level off and the west side will experience a Real Estate boom of itself. The writing is on the wall...like it or not.

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There already is a Federal Street. It's on the other side of the arena. And where did they come up with Federal Square? There's no open square or plaza. It's more like Federal Line or Federal Spot.

It is my understanding that the city is creating a square/plaza of sorts behind the new courthouse on Division, hence Federal Square. It is mentioned on the Terrace at Federal Square website.

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I am starting to have more respect for Orlando Weekly after this letter to Mayor Dyer!

LETTER to DYER on HOMELESSNESS

It shows their jornalists put time into an issue and seem to have a good understanding of the Homeless problem and how to properly address it. Bravo!

I don't think the Homeless issue will make or break the future growth of Parramore, however it will determine the pace at which it happens. If they solve one of the top issues such as Homelessness, the growth curve will be exponential, if they don't it will happen wiith a constant and steady slope! As more and more development occurs it will naturally limit drug dealer and homeless activities, since more policing will be required by the residents and active owners.

The problem today is that 90% of the owners are Absent! They have probably inherited it and have forgotten about it because they are either in jail or out of state. That would explain why more than half the code enforcement violations (lot cleaning mostly) occurs in District 5 (Parramore).

New ownership that actually lives and runs a business there will automatically solve many of the issues they are experiencing now.

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I am starting to have more respect for Orlando Weekly after this letter to Mayor Dyer!

LETTER to DYER on HOMELESSNESS

It shows their jornalists put time into an issue and seem to have a good understanding of the Homeless problem and how to properly address it. Bravo!

I don't think the Homeless issue will make or break the future growth of Parramore, however it will determine the pace at which it happens. If they solve one of the top issues such as Homelessness, the growth curve will be exponential, if they don't it will happen wiith a constant and steady slope! As more and more development occurs it will naturally limit drug dealer and homeless activities, since more policing will be required by the residents and active owners.

The problem today is that 90% of the owners are Absent! They have probably inherited it and have forgotten about it because they are either in jail or out of state. That would explain why more than half the code enforcement violations (lot cleaning mostly) occurs in District 5 (Parramore).

New ownership that actually lives and runs a business there will automatically solve many of the issues they are experiencing now.

I disagree with this article. I do not think that Dyer has or will ever have the resources to deal with homelessness. Only a four county effort could effectively combat homelessness with major support from the Feds and the State. Orlando is weak compared to most cities in the country. Our county has all of the power (power of the purse)

Dyer gets all of the recognition but Crotty has the power. The letter should have been written to Crotty.

Edited by jack

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Our county has all of the power (power of the purse)

Dyer gets all of the recognition but Crotty has the power. The letter should have been written to Crotty.

I agree Jack, the letter should of been addressed to both Crotty and Dyer! The whole concept of Mayor of Orlando and Mayor of Orange County is stupid if you ask me. A similar thing is found in many European countries too and of course it doesn't work very well. All it does is give them someone (other than themselves) to blame when things go wrong. :sick:

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I am starting to have more respect for Orlando Weekly after this letter to Mayor Dyer!

LETTER to DYER on HOMELESSNESS

It shows their jornalists put time into an issue and seem to have a good understanding of the Homeless problem and how to properly address it. Bravo!

I don't think the Homeless issue will make or break the future growth of Parramore, however it will determine the pace at which it happens. If they solve one of the top issues such as Homelessness, the growth curve will be exponential, if they don't it will happen wiith a constant and steady slope! As more and more development occurs it will naturally limit drug dealer and homeless activities, since more policing will be required by the residents and active owners.

The problem today is that 90% of the owners are Absent! They have probably inherited it and have forgotten about it because they are either in jail or out of state. That would explain why more than half the code enforcement violations (lot cleaning mostly) occurs in District 5 (Parramore).

New ownership that actually lives and runs a business there will automatically solve many of the issues they are experiencing now.

They didn't actually print that drivel, did they?

I think I need another cup of coffee after that.

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