Parramore's Future: Highrise Development or No?

[WeNeed2Progress]

I like that... "Urban Delight". Sounds so naughty.

Urban delight.

[prahaboheme]

Well, it appears that quite a few "spot" developments are on the table already.....with plenty of eager developers waiting in the wings.

And the biggest "spot" appears to be CityPlace. It appears to be the next Tallest development which makes sense since there are fewer height restrictions on the west side of I-4. According to your logic, the developers of CityPlace must not have any vision or sensitivity to the social issues. I'm willing to bet it will become one of the most successful ventures considering that area will have over 5,000 professionals and students walking those streets in a couple years.

May I also assume you were against Kuhn's Premiere Plaza, considering the Historic Woolworth/McCrory's was demolished? Come on, we need to stop creating obstacles that stand in the way of progress. Orlando is a young metropolitan city that needs to find an identity. Let's lose for God's sake the Mickey Mouse label and turn this place into an Urban delight we can all be proud of.

You certainly do make a lot of assumptions.

[bobliocatt]

Well, it appears that quite a few "spot" developments are on the table already.....with plenty of eager developers waiting in the wings.

And the biggest "spot" appears to be CityPlace. It appears to be the next Tallest development which makes sense since there are fewer height restrictions on the west side of I-4. According to your logic, the developers of CityPlace must not have any vision or sensitivity to the social issues. I'm willing to bet it will become one of the most successful ventures considering that area will have over 5,000 professionals and students walking those streets in a couple years.

May I also assume you were against Kuhn's Premiere Plaza, considering the Historic Woolworth/McCrory's was demolished? Come on, we need to stop creating obstacles that stand in the way of progress. Orlando is a young metropolitan city that needs to find an identity. Let's lose for God's sake the Mickey Mouse label and turn this place into an Urban delight we can all be proud of.

Wow, I never considered the old Holiday Inn, on the corner of Colonial and I-4, a part of Parramore. Let's not beat around the bush. The actually community we're discussing sits west of Division Ave. As far as saving parts of Parramore, instead of completely leveling it as you suggest, is indeed keep the fake Mickey Mouse label away from the inner city.

[WeNeed2Progress]

Because the topic of emulating architectural styles in Orlando is gone... this was the closest topic to fit this into:

Has anyone seen the conceptuals for Battle House Tower in Mobile, AL? It's beautiful. What is the likelihood of getting something of that style here?

Edited November 30, 2005 by WeNeed2Progress

[prahaboheme]

Because the topic of emulating architectural styles in Orlando is gone... this was the closest topic to fit this into:

Has anyone seen the conceptuals for Battle House Tower in Mobile, AL? It's beautiful. What is the likelihood of getting something that looks like that here?

I suppose the likelihood of getting an 800 footer downtown.

[WeNeed2Progress]

I suppose the likelihood of getting an 800 footer downtown.

Yea...

[DelGreco]

Check out todays Orlando Sentinel add on Irish investor. I am glad to see that finally some of the behinds the scenes activity by investors and builders is becoming public.

You can feel the energy being generated in this area. IMHO it will be the next Thorton Park! Some rezoning is necessary to allow our downtown to expand and become a destination for locals and tourists.

What's next? Arena, PAC, Hotels, Highrise Towers? I think given the timing of some streetscape activities for Division and Church St, it appears it will all come together and really take off around the end of 2007.

Orlando....The Urban Delight! (Go Magic!)

Investor Snaps up Land in Parramore

[bobliocatt]

Sounds good. Maybe this will encourage the need to relocate the homeless shelters and rezone the land to eliminate the possibility of incompatible land uses.

[sunshine]

We should all give them a one way greyhound ticket to somewhere as Xmas Present.

[DelGreco]

Sounds good. Maybe this will encourage the need to relocate the homeless shelters and rezone the land to eliminate the possibility of incompatible land uses.

Wow, the 20 properties he picked up are about 115 low income housing units consisting of houses, duplexes, quads, etc......so he appears to be doing some good for the local people.

The other large tract he assembled is between Pine and Church (E-W) and Parramore and Terry (N-S). It is a 6acre site prime for a large scale multi-use highrise. It appears to be shutdown industrial facilities. It's neighbors are Hughs/The View to the East and The Coalition for the Homeless to the North. With the Central Park and BBIF building going up across the street, we could be seeing a Parramore core forming.

This is good news indeed for Orlando.....(Buddy, move the Coalition, soon)

[go_vertical]

Sounds good. Maybe this will encourage the need to relocate the homeless shelters and rezone the land to eliminate the possibility of incompatible land uses.

Has there been a comprehensive master plan drawn up for Parramore? If not, has there been talks of one being done?

[jack]

One has been done. I have seen it in powerpoints done by the Development Board

[go_vertical]

One has been done. I have seen it in powerpoints done by the Development Board

Do you by any chance remember any details as far as land use in certain areas or zoning changes?

[jack]

The main thing that I noticed was the three residential neighborhoods. The City will protect those three and allow development around it. Higher rise development takes place east of Parramore Ave. and along Church St. Everything west of Parramore would be low density (accept Church). I know they want to do away with incompatible land uses, e.g. industrial zoning. WHen I say high-rise, I mean City View type developments. Maybe ten stories max.

[GRS328]

Not sure if anyone caught this, but there's an interesting article in this weeks Orlando Weekly regarding the city using third party corps to buy properties in blighted Parramore areas.

Orlando Weekly - Deception 12/8/05

[jack]

Makes sense to me. As long as it saves tax payers money

[DelGreco]

Makes sense to me. As long as it saves tax payers money

You won't find too many Einstein's in the city's Real Estate Department considering on the first property mentioned in the OrlandoWeekly artical on W. South Street they paid $375K for 12,000sqft of land. That means the city provided a comparable sales property for future land purchases with a $32 per sqft pricetag. Not very smart if you ask me. I guess they bought enough properties in that area for $5K, $10K, and $15K that they decided to overpay for one, my mistake I'm sure!

I bet they have used other realtor companies to do the dirty work for the City, by acquiring cheap land based on a "biased" realty company's appraisal. (I guess that is what capitalism is all about...albeit a bit unethical)

But honestly, the days of acquiring land/property in Parramore for $15k-$30K per unit or lot are over. I think the city realizes it too. Parramore will be the next College Park!

[DelGreco]

One has been done. I have seen it in powerpoints done by the Development Board

As an overseas investor in DT Orlando, I have to admit that the City of Orlando department heads either don't talk to each other or choose not to follow the lead of their leader (Dyer). Alot of pretty presentations and blah blah, but when it comes to truly make a difference and encourage development/investors, Orlando lags behind other US and European metropolitan cities. Just an observation, maybe I'm wrong....it wouldn't be the first time. I guess Bureacratic job security makes people do things and make decisions without really considering the consequences of their actions...

Here are a couple of examples of issues "within City Hall"....

Save Uncle Henry's!

DECEPTION

My WebpageHere we go again!

Letters

Interesting reading....I don't know how credible this OrlandoWeekly is but it seems that it gets below the surface of things.

Happy New Year to All!

[Jaybee]

Yeah, and Dave Van Gelder is a creditable source...

[DelGreco]

Parramore cannot just consist of a medical school here, a law school there, an arena over there. It needs residents, high density residential blocks, retail, restaurants, infill and sensitivity. There is not a lot to save there, but what can be saved should, and I do trust that while the private market will take over, the public one should demand that each new development set aside a percentage of units as affordable, if for nothing else than respect to Parramore heritage.

Orlando CityPlace

I truly like this project. Maybe the developers are small, but I think they must have bigshot $$$ partners in the wings in order to be investing so much time and effort on detailed drawings. They seem to know how to leverage other people's money and that is a legitimate and effective way of making things happen.

Call me a stupid European, but I think Parramore is the key to Orlando's future. It will be the next College Park with lots of highrises in between. Of course this depends how creative the Mayor and the City of Orlando people can be in attracting more big name developers. The demand for Orlando will always be there...and if you have been following the international stock markets, Europeans have lots of money to invest. Orlando has the added benefit of being safer than the coastal areas from a hurricane standpoint. The folks in Parramore need a push because they are just drowning with nowhere to go....I think they will be happy to see the signs of progress....and jobs!

[prahaboheme]

I share your enthusiasm for Parramore, but I don't see how it will be transformed into a middle-upperclass neighborhood like College Park. Personally I'd like it to be a successful extension of downtown--more urban than neighborhood-ish, which is probably going to happen considering there is so little to save in Parramore.

[DelGreco]

I share your enthusiasm for Parramore, but I don't see how it will be transformed into a middle-upperclass neighborhood like College Park. Personally I'd like it to be a successful extension of downtown--more urban than neighborhood-ish, which is probably going to happen considering there is so little to save in Parramore.

Ok ok...you are right, I exaggerated a tad. Upper Class no, but Middle Class for sure! During my last visit to Orlando a couple months ago, I decided to do my routine Parramore drivethrough and decided to stop and watch the CityView and Hughes/BankofAmerica Building traffic. It was amazing to see one Mecedes, BMW, and Porche after another entering and exiting the parking garage. This led me to believe that alot of people with good jobs live in this building, because it was not during regular business hours when I drove by. I thought this was supposed to be low income housing?! Apparently, the middle class is not afraid to live on the "other" side. It is amazing how much Parramore has cleaned up compared to a couple years ago and I think CityView, FAMU, Fed Couthouse....and soon Central Park (Heritage Park?) will require even further security measures such as frequent patroling and drug/prostitution crackdown.

I agree it should be an extension of the Central Business District as far west as Parramore and then transition into muti and mixed use residential including single family middle and low income housing.

I guess it will take a few visionaries before everyone becomes a believer. Kudos to CityPlace because the developers appear to be visionaries and willing to take risk. With Risk come big Rewards. God Bless America! Orlando appears to be on track for great things in the near future. And the good thing is once your reach that critical mass in terms of development and pedestrian traffic, the new development will grown exponentially....even during a realestate slowdown in the rest of the country.

[prahaboheme]

The fringe of Parramore is improving (mainly along I-4) but the heart of the neighborhood, down Westmoreland, is very much blighted. Parramore wont clean up until this area begins to see revitalization because this is where the resident crackheads and prostitutes reside.

[Jaybee]

... "watch the CityView and Hughes/BankofAmerica Building traffic. It was amazing to see one Mecedes, BMW, and Porche after another entering and exiting the parking garage."

Uh, these are the people who work at Hughes Supply, not the low income people who live in the building, right?

[jack]

I believe a good number of employees live in that building. I wanted too live there but the waiting list was to long. Also, only 40% of the units are classified as affordable.

Edited January 25, 2006 by jack