Parramore's Future: Highrise Development or No?

[DelGreco]

Just dreaming here and these are not proposed in paramore...but would be nice to throw a few of these in the area..

As I finally got a chance to return to downtown Orlando and while standing in front of the almost complete new arena, I found myself closing my eyes for a moment and day-dreaming what that corridor west of the arena could be. Sure enough this 3rd rending was pretty close to what my wild and vivid imagination was coming up with...I love it! Where is this...is it a real location somwhere?

I can see this type of development acting as a buffer area between Church/Divison/Anderson/Parramore....restaurants,shops,fast-food franchises....and yes, can't the City donate that land to an indian tribe so they can put up a HardRock Casino in there? That will certainly generate some traffic and link the Parramore neighborhood with the business district.

Go Magic...make Orlando proud!

[bic]

^ Bears some resemblance to The Grove in LA:

[prahaboheme]

And closer to home, CityPlace in WPB.

[Jernigan]

Looking at an arial photo - you can see how perfectly parallel the Arena and the Citrus Bowl are to each other.

There are already several projects focused on engaging the youth in the area and usually through activity and sports. I think this could all be embraced to create an "Athletic Node" for downtown.

The area I mean specifically is: Church to the north, I-4 to the east (with the east side being the Arena), South St. to the south and 17-92 to the west (with the Citrus Bowl being west of that).

If you actually look at the buildings that are there (especially west of Westmoreland - it is not that dense. My basic idea would be to turn the whole expanse into a green. All civic buildings (churches, diners, museums) would remain in tact.

Along Church and South, retail with apartments above would be built with arrangements worked out for businesses that are being asked to relocate. If this was done in segments, you'd never have to ask someone to close down shop and when they did move from their current location, their business would instantly improve. If they whole sha-bang changes the landscape of the area and their business no longer fits in, market forces would dictate that. I do have faith that the residents of Parramore would remain loyal to their long-time shop owners.

So with this expansive green could go soccer fields, tennis courts, raquetball and basketball. Artwork, ampitheater etc could also go in down the road - think Centennial Park in Atlanta.

Anyway - just an idea. It doesn't conflict with the high-rise question as there is a large amount of land south of South or north of Church.

[prahaboheme]

I do like the idea of a great expanse, but not at the expense of the retail strip along Westmoreland. With the right amount of investment in the future, that area could vastly improve because it already has the bones to be a good retail center. It's not unlike the Summerlin/Thornton Park area, just rundown. I do think there is major potential to convert the industrial uses in the area (which are the real problem with Parramore) into parkland. If you can get those businesses to relocate, that would be an ideal situation.

[DelGreco]

With the right amount of investment in the future, that area could vastly improve because it already has the bones to be a good retail center.

I like the idea of street level retail with apartments above, lining the streets of Church and South. I do not understand why they do not have South St as a 2-way street running all the way to OBT. Is this going to happen...it will help traffic flow when the new arena opens.

How many major landowners are there between Division and Westmoreland?....can't be more than a dozen. Why can't the city get them together to contribute their land and bring in a few big developers to get things in motion. The landowners in exchange for their property will receive from the developers a portion of the retail space and apartments. Doesn't the city already own 50% of the area? I think this business model, along with some state/fed funding as incentives, is feasible...

[DelGreco]

I do think there is major potential to convert the industrial uses in the area (which are the real problem with Parramore) into parkland. If you can get those businesses to relocate, that would be an ideal situation.

Wow...what a conversion! Is a sea of surface parking lots with ugly 4" wood posts what the future of Parramore holds...is this the catalyst for development the new Arena will bring? I can understand this from the small property owners, but from professional parking management companies like Lanier and 717? Very Ugly. I hope some franchise fast food establishments or even gas stations take up some of those empty lots. Put a Walmart there for crying out loud...anything!

And as far as the new Arena...where are the street level restaurants and bars with outdoor/courtyard tables that will make this a 24 hr hangout? Is the Club Level restaurant inside the arena it? There is nothing at ground level along Church or Division. Are the shacks across the street in the City garage supposed to bring in the 24 hr street vibe? Come on!

[tennis32801]

Wow...what a conversion! Is a sea of surface parking lots with ugly 4" wood posts what the future of Parramore holds...is this the catalyst for development the new Arena will bring? I can understand this from the small property owners, but from professional parking management companies like Lanier and 717? Very Ugly. I hope some franchise fast food establishments or even gas stations take up some of those empty lots. Put a Walmart there for crying out loud...anything!

And as far as the new Arena...where are the street level restaurants and bars with outdoor/courtyard tables that will make this a 24 hr hangout? Is the Club Level restaurant inside the arena it? There is nothing at ground level along Church or Division. Are the shacks across the street in the City garage supposed to bring in the 24 hr street vibe? Come on!

Agreed! If I had money, I would def open up a bar or restaraunt across the arena on Church St. Those vacant spaces fronting Church have so much potential. What was shocking to me was that some of the businesses werent even opened while people were waiting outside the arean (ie. that carribean restaraunt). Are you kidding me?? Talking about opportunities lost.

[jgardnerucf]

Agreed! If I had money, I would def open up a bar or restaraunt across the arena on Church St. Those vacant spaces fronting Church have so much potential. What was shocking to me was that some of the businesses werent even opened while people were waiting outside the arean (ie. that carribean restaraunt). Are you kidding me?? Talking about opportunities lost.

I bet $5 they didn't even tell the restaurant guy that all that was happening during those days. Island time. Oh, and they gave him last year's Magic schedule...

Those businesses recently renewed their leases 2-3 years ago with the City. (10 year lease). The rent in those spaces is peanuts and pocket lint.

[DeepEyez]

Wow...what a conversion! Is a sea of surface parking lots with ugly 4" wood posts what the future of Parramore holds...is this the catalyst for development the new Arena will bring? I can understand this from the small property owners, but from professional parking management companies like Lanier and 717? Very Ugly. I hope some franchise fast food establishments or even gas stations take up some of those empty lots. Put a Walmart there for crying out loud...anything!

And as far as the new Arena...where are the street level restaurants and bars with outdoor/courtyard tables that will make this a 24 hr hangout? Is the Club Level restaurant inside the arena it? There is nothing at ground level along Church or Division. Are the shacks across the street in the City garage supposed to bring in the 24 hr street vibe? Come on!

Is that what those 4" wood posts for.....PARKING????? I saw those the other day and prayed that they were NOT going to be used for parking.....if that is what they are, that is what they'll be for the next 10 years or so....unfortunately as far as the future of Parramore goes, it doesn't look too promising.

[prahaboheme]

According to the DDB, the Church Street improvements from Division to Westmoreland were to begin 3rd Quarter. These improvements will go a long way in making this area of Parramore more attractive, along with the Renaissance at Carver development (even if the architecture is questionable).

[mrh3]

^^

that middle picture is in Atlanta. wow, check out Buckhead/Perimeter Center's buildings on the horizon...

Field of Dreams- if you build it, they will come. truer words were never spoken. some developer needs to add to the HD Supply HQ block with some mixed use buildings and get something going; they need to fill the gaps between the O-Rena, State Reg. Service Center, and FAMU and the Amway Center and turn it up. If they do the bridge district idea, I think that will go a long way to helping that get going.

Great comment JRS1, I actually think that the empty lot would be PERFECT for an urban Home Depot location. I mean, it's next to the building and would be perfect for urban homesteaders fixing up their homes. I think it would create a lot of traffic on the weekend and not to be snarky, but the available supply of labor from the homeless shelter makes it a home run in my book.

[Closet_Urbanite]

I did a "Parramore" search on the Orlando forum and found this old gem of a thread....after two hours of reading, it is amazing how much creativity and foresight was displayed by some of the contributors.

 

In light of recent developments and the new "momentum" in Parramore, I thought the dilemma of High Rise Development or not on west I-4 is appropriate to re-examine. Look back at how many highrise projects were reduced to 40 story (and below) or were canceled all together because of the stupid Executive Airport imposed height restriction.

 

Can you imagine driving on I-4 through downtown and having mid to high rise density on both sides starting from Lake Ivanhoe all the way down to the Anderson exit and picking up again in the SoDo area...I hope I live that long!

 

I believe the catalyst for such Highrise development on west side of I-4  is the Creative Village or Digital Media World or whatever catchy name you want to call it.  All it takes is a few big name developers and some creative ones like Ustler to get together with the CEO's of UCF/Valencia/FullSail/EASports/L-1/Universal/Disney/etc., and supported by Metro Orlando Economic Development Commission to recruit other high tech and digital media companies. If half of the names above agree to move in, the vision becomes reality and before you know it big name companies from around the country and the world start knocking on your door for office space and housing. Educational institutions and Tech companies side-by-side....hmmm that concept sounds like the Medical City at Lake Nona. If the Tavistock group can pull off a Medical Village in the middle of cow pasteurs and next to a busy International airport, surely Downtown Orlando has more appeal and potential.

All it needs is an elevated train connecting downtown to OIA and before you know it you have created Utopia!

[OrlFlaUsa]

^I'll even settle for SunRail spur off the current line and frequency over waiting and trying to get a new system built.

Also I feel expanding the FREE Lymmo routes is a must.

[Boomer136]

I like Jernigan's "Athletic Node" idea even better now that OC stadium is going in. Too bad US tennis is out at Nona. Specialty stadiums in close proximity, like a mini-olympic village, would be interesting. Well, perhaps an aquatic center then.

[smileguy]

I like Jernigan's "Athletic Node" idea even better now that OC stadium is going in. Too bad US tennis is out at Nona. Specialty stadiums in close proximity, like a mini-olympic village, would be interesting. Well, perhaps an aquatic center then.

 

I think the problem with this is how rarely the venues are used.  If we're really looking to build a place with healthy streetlife, a number of single-use or low-use complexes aren't going to cut it.

[Boomer136]

But Jernigan's idea seemed aimed at the community as well. Stadiums tied to education and recreation markets used from time to time as spectator events I think is better than empty grass lots. As far as low-use complexes, that fits the Citrus Bowl to a T.

[aent]

I like Jernigan's "Athletic Node" idea even better now that OC stadium is going in. Too bad US tennis is out at Nona. Specialty stadiums in close proximity, like a mini-olympic village, would be interesting. Well, perhaps an aquatic center then.

Are they  building a real stadium? I think they're just putting 1600 seats in, not much of a stadium. Also is there really room for what they're building at Nona downtown?

[smileguy]

It looks like a comprehensive plan for Parramore is being developed, with meetings this week. http://enhancecfl.org/station-area-workgroups/downtown-orlando-stations/  

[bic]

Officials unveil plans for new $41.3M school in Parramore neighborhood

 

[Boomer136]

I am getting a tad annoyed at the OS's continued lackadaisical attitude to the basics of news reporting. They get the what, when and who most of the time, but come up short repeatedly on the where and why (except for Scott Maxwell of course). Which of the four corners is this on? On the south-east corner it would connect up with the Downtown Rec Complex and it's athletic facilities. North-east and it means they start carving up large blank areas of the Creative Village and a setting of Amelia's newest route . I'm guessing NW or SW is out?

 

Is it too much to ask for 9 more letters and a hyphen before the word "corner" Caitlin?

[alex]

This is a really exciting development, but I agree with you on the vague reporting.  

 

According to the original plan for Creative Village, K-12 education would go on the SE-corner of Parramore and Livingston.  However, at 14 acres this would probably replace the existing rec center and then some. 

[jack]

I thought it was going where the old Otey place development was planned. The land was owned by the CRA and I believe they transferred it to the school board last summer. 

Edited January 26, 2015 by jack

[sunshine]

I am not sure, but from the article, it sounds like it is not part of the creative village. At least that's what I felt. If it is indeed not part of the creative village, I applaud the urban school design. But if it replaced all the "fancy" highrises at creative village, it is a thumb down.

[alex]

I thought it was going where the old Otey place development was planned. The land was owned by the CRA and I believe they transferred it to the school board last summer. 

 

That would make sense, but that site is only 5 acres.  Maybe they would do half at Otey (sports fields?) and half where the current rec center is?