Columbia Place Mall

[101_ce]

In my opinion, the department store as a concept is soon to be history. Dillard's is doing poorly, so is Macy's. Just think of the hundreds of department stores now reduced to 15 or so in various parts of the nation today. Mark my words, all will be gone (or will maybe reinvent themselves if prudent) in 10 years.

I, for one, do not find one thing that I would want in a department store that I couldn't find for MUCH less at another store, and one that's easier to get in and out of, such as Marshall's, Target, Old Navy, Pottery Barn, etc., or even Goodwill for that matter! In today's economy and with "reuse and recycle" being more and more the norm, it just makes no sense to shop at an old dinosaur like Belk, Dillard's, or Macy's. The only place hopping at these stores seems to be the phalanx of cosmetics, which women flock to as much for the experience than anything. They, too, may just decide it wiser to save the $50 bill at the Borghese counter for one case of lipstick for the slew of Cover Girl or Maybelline they could get at Target or Walgreen's!

Enclosed malls should be turned inside out into lifestyle centers, the wave of the future for the 'burbs. Do I hear re-development anyone?

That would be really bad. Where would people get Lacoste or Ralph Lauren? They would have to drive all the way to Atlanta or Charlotte just to get it. I think that department stores will not die.

[101_ce]

It's easy to make statements, but how about backing them up with facts? There are plenty of department stores in Columbia with multiple locations; why not Macy's? Also, why would Macy's necessarily do more business at Columbiana than at Columbia Place and why is it more likely for them to move to Columbiana versus Village at Sandhill? One thing store owners do is look at the concentration of people that have their credit cards and with their long history at Columbia Place and the earlier store downtown, that concentration is almost certainly in-town and in northeast Columbia, not in northwest Columbia where people are more likely to have been shopping at Columbiana for the last 20 years. There isn't even any indication that Columbiana is going to expand. Like I said earlier, Columbiana has had space for a 5th anchor in their plans for 20 years.

Macy's would not have that many stores in Columbia due to its size. Columbia is not yet large enough to have 2 stores. Sears has another Columbia store because it is not an expensive store. Belk has many because they have multiple stores in cities the same size and smaller than Columbia. Macy's does not have too many. If Charlotte has 3, I would not think that Columbia could support 2. Greenville does not even have two yet. Columbia is larger than Greenville, but GVL is ahead in retail. People will get tired of going to Columbia Place just for Macy's to do a little shopping there than go to Columbiana to do the rest. They are on the other sides of the city. Would it make sense for someone to go to one store and then go to many stores at the other side of the city? No. I doubt that they would move to VAS because people in the Columbiana forum say it is half empty. It would go to Columbiana because most of the good shopping options are there. It is marked as "Future" on the site map, meaning that something will eventually go there. So if they have had that plan for 20 years, then will they never open it? I do not think so. They could have changed their mind about opening somthing there, and change their plans again. Something will go there. Are you even reading my post? I am so tired of saying the same thing over and over again.

Edited April 4, 2009 by ct36

[waccamatt]

Macy's would not have that many stores in Columbia due to its size. Columbia is not yet large enough to have 2 stores. Sears has another Columbia store because it is not an expensive store. Belk has many because they have multiple stores in cities the same size and smaller than Columbia. Macy's does not have too many. If Charlotte has 3, I would not think that Columbia could support 2. Greenville does not even have two yet. Columbia is larger than Greenville, but GVL is ahead in retail. People will get tired of going to Columbia Place just for Macy's to do a little shopping there than go to Columbiana to do the rest. They are on the other sides of the city. Would it make sense for someone to go to one store and then go to many stores at the other side of the city? No. I doubt that they would move to VAS because people in the Columbiana forum say it is half empty. It would go to Columbiana because most of the good shopping options are there. It is marked as "Future" on the site map, meaning that something will eventually go there. So if they have had that plan for 20 years, then will they never open it? I do not think so. They could have changed their mind about opening somthing there, and change their plans again. Something will go there. Are you even reading my post? I am so tired of saying the same thing over and over again.

VAS isn't half empty. If you lived in Columbia you might know more about the market here and not have to quote hearsay from other people. Am I reading your post? Yes and I see that you really don't know what you're talking about. All I expect is that if you don't know something to be a fact, post it as an opinion, not as a fact.

I am sorry to say this but I do not see a future for Columbia Place. Columbiana is getting a new anchor. Steven & I agree that it is most likely going to be Macy's. It would make the most sense because I do not think Columbia is ready for a Nordstrom or anything like it soon. The reason that many people go to Columbia Place is for Macy's. They can go to Sears @ Columbiana. They probably would go an extra 10 or so miles to go to the one at the safe mall (so i have heard).

QUOTE (ct36 @ Jan 27 2009, 06:38 PM) *

Really? I have never been to the Belk at Dutch Square, but I thought it would not do well considering the mall it is in and how close it is to the Columbiana location. I have not been to any Columbia Malls (except I drove around Columbiana once) so I thought It would do bad.

I think that Columbia has way too many Belk stores. They have the three leveled Dutch Square, Columbiana & Richland (well C&R are actually only two levels of open space (3rd level is offices and storage). And there is also the 1? leveled Sandhill store. Charlotte is much bigger and has only 3 Belk stores. SouthPark (4 levels, flagship) and the 2 leveled Carolina Place & Northlake. Well, that is probably because SouthPark is so big (Almost twice the size of the Columbiana store). With the VAS so close to Richland, maybe they should just close the MT @ FA (Richland) store.

These posts are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You post like you're an expert on the Columbia market, but when it comes right down to it, you quote things that "you've heard". In the quote I borrowed from another thread, you didn't even know that VAS and Richland Mall were approximately 15 miles apart.

As far as "having heard" that Columbiana is the "safe" mall; I don't consider Columbia Place to be dangerous. Yes, there have been crimes there, but there have at Columbiana also. If you visit Columbia Place you will realize that other than the fact that Dillards and Steve & Barry's closed, the rest of the mall is probably 85 or 90% leased and Macy's does quite good business there. The markets for Columbia Place and Columbiana are totally different. I live on the edge of downtown and I rarely go to either one or VAS, I usually shop in the Vista, Five Points or Richland Mall. People who live in Northeast rarely go to Columbiana and people in Lexington or Irmo rarely go to Columbia Place or VAS. For instance, if someone lived in Spring Valley or the Summit, they're not going to go shopping at Columbiana on any kind of regular basis.

Edited April 4, 2009 by waccamatt

[Temeteron]

.... If you visit Columbia Place you will realize that other than the fact that Dillards and Steve & Barry's closed, the rest of the mall is probably 85 or 90% leased and Macy's does quite good business there. The markets for Columbia Place and Columbiana are totally different. I live on the edge of downtown and I rarely go to either one or VAS, I usually shop in the Vista, Five Points or Richland Mall. People who live in Northeast rarely go to Columbiana and people in Lexington or Irmo rarely go to Columbia Place or VAS. For instance, if someone lived in Spring Valley or the Summit, they're not going to go shopping at Columbiana on any kind of regular basis.

I disagree.....Columbia Place is not 85 to 90% leased......its probably more like 70 to 75%.......and i believe a big amount of people from NE shop at Columbiana due to the fact that there are several stores that Columbiana has that VAS and CP dont have.....actually I know a lot of people that dont even shop in Columbia altogether and go to CLT....there is really nothing for young professionals to shop from in Columbia Place....unless you go to Express, or Macy*s....everything else in there is urbanwear

[101_ce]

I disagree.....Columbia Place is not 85 to 90% leased......its probably more like 70 to 75%.......and i believe a big amount of people from NE shop at Columbiana due to the fact that there are several stores that Columbiana has that VAS and CP dont have.....actually I know a lot of people that dont even shop in Columbia altogether and go to CLT....there is really nothing for young professionals to shop from in Columbia Place....unless you go to Express, or Macy*s....everything else in there is urbanwear

Thanks Temeteron for helping me with that. Like what I said and you is that people would rather shop at Columbiana due to the amount of stores that are exclusive to Columbia. I think that the only exclusive store in Columbia Place is Macy's. People will get tired of traveling to the other side of town just to visit Macy's. So, if they do not open at Columbiana, they may close altogether in Columbia. If no one shopped at Columbiana either, it would be just like Columbia Place. Then, most of the people would have to go to Charleston, Greenville, Charlotte, Augusta, Atlanta, etc. to shop.

[waccamatt]

I still find it interesting how two people who don't even live in Columbia know so much about the market here.

[gman430]

It's easy to make statements, but how about backing them up with facts? There are plenty of department stores in Columbia with multiple locations; why not Macy's? Also, why would Macy's necessarily do more business at Columbiana than at Columbia Place and why is it more likely for them to move to Columbiana versus Village at Sandhill? One thing store owners do is look at the concentration of people that have their credit cards and with their long history at Columbia Place and the earlier store downtown, that concentration is almost certainly in-town and in northeast Columbia, not in northwest Columbia where people are more likely to have been shopping at Columbiana for the last 20 years. There isn't even any indication that Columbiana is going to expand. Like I said earlier, Columbiana has had space for a 5th anchor in their plans for 20 years.

Macy's isn't doing well and they have certain demographics that have to be met before expanding into a market like any other retail/restaurant establishment.

[waccamatt]

Macy's isn't doing well and they have certain demographics that have to be met before expanding into a market like any other retail/restaurant establishment.

My real point is that Macy's isn't going to move from Columbia Place to Columbiana.

[Temeteron]

I still find it interesting how two people who don't even live in Columbia know so much about the market here.

First of all, you really don't know where I live....I could be in Seattle for all you know....I have a friend who works for CP and he updates me.....

[krazeeboi]

First of all, you really don't know where I live....I could be in Seattle for all you know

Then your info box should say "Seattle" if that's the case.

[Captain Worley]

In the quote I borrowed from another thread, you didn't even know that VAS and Richland Mall were approximately 15 miles apart.

That did provide a mighty blow to his credibility.

Then your info box should say "Seattle" if that's the case.

Good point!

[waccamatt]

That did provide a mighty blow to his credibility.

Good point!

That cracked me up, Captain Crunch.

[digital_sandlapper]

Hey folks, let's keep the debate spirited but respectful. That said, here is my disclaimer: This post (and all subsequent posts of mine) are my opinion, hopefully adequately backed up with research on trends and statistics, but ultimately just my argument for you to think like me. If I fail to do that, then that's okay, too. But that doesn't mean we can't be friends.

Now, back to the subject at hand:

My point about Columbia Place Mall is that, IMO, its fate is in the hands of current trends, i.e., the future of malls and department stores as concepts at all. I anticipate a continual decline in ALL mall and department store traffic, and CP will be the first of the big 3 in our market to die unless it re-invents itself into a lifestyle center.

I certainly don't anticipate that, though, not in that location. It is just in a declining part of town, you have to admit. And I'm NOT talking about race here--the area has always been a mix. Economically, it is just being abandoned for the sprawl further out, just like everywhere else. You can't deny it--just ride down Two Notch or Decker and really LOOK at what you see in the area. It's pretty depressing.

Edited April 8, 2009 by digital_sandlapper

[Spartan]

Yeah that portion of Two Notch is the best illustration of leapfrog development in South Carolina. Its only a matter of time before it declines. I was surprised when Best Buy chose to keep its location there, rather than close it.

[waccamatt]

I disagree.....Columbia Place is not 85 to 90% leased......its probably more like 70 to 75%.......and i believe a big amount of people from NE shop at Columbiana due to the fact that there are several stores that Columbiana has that VAS and CP dont have.....actually I know a lot of people that dont even shop in Columbia altogether and go to CLT....there is really nothing for young professionals to shop from in Columbia Place....unless you go to Express, or Macy*s....everything else in there is urbanwear

Since I prefer to deal with exacts I went out to Columbia Place tonight to determine the correct percentages. My statement said that other than Dillards and Steve and Barry's, Columbia Place was 85 or 90% leased. I left out-buildings and kiosks out of the equation and counting stores in the mall, the other spaces count 78 leased and 17 empty. I was a little optimistic as this works out to 82.1% - a far cry from 70 or 75%, however.

[101_ce]

Since I prefer to deal with exacts I went out to Columbia Place tonight to determine the correct percentages. My statement said that other than Dillards and Steve and Barry's, Columbia Place was 85 or 90% leased. I left out-buildings and kiosks out of the equation and counting stores in the mall, the other spaces count 78 leased and 17 empty. I was a little optimistic as this works out to 82.1% - a far cry from 70 or 75%, however.

I agree with Temeteron. "...and i believe a big amount of people from NE shop at Columbiana due to the fact that there are several stores that Columbiana has that VAS and CP dont have.....actually I know a lot of people that dont even shop in Columbia altogether and go to CLT....there is really nothing for young professionals to shop from in Columbia Place....unless you go to Express, or Macy*s....everything else in there is urbanwear"

Even if it is 80% leased...what if people do not like the stores there? l really do think that most people shop in Columbiana if they even shop in Columbia.

[waccamatt]

I agree with Temeteron. "...and i believe a big amount of people from NE shop at Columbiana due to the fact that there are several stores that Columbiana has that VAS and CP dont have.....actually I know a lot of people that dont even shop in Columbia altogether and go to CLT....there is really nothing for young professionals to shop from in Columbia Place....unless you go to Express, or Macy*s....everything else in there is urbanwear"

Even if it is 80% leased...what if people do not like the stores there? l really do think that most people shop in Columbiana if they even shop in Columbia.

There are plenty of other places to shop in Columbia besides Columbia Place and Columbiana. I doubt many people from Northeast Columbia shop at Columbiana because they can go to VAS, which is nicer, IMO, and the traffic isn't nearly as bad. There are plenty of upscale stores in Five Points, the Devine Street corridor and in the Vista. I couldn't tell you the last time I bought clothes at any of the malls.

As far as "what if people don't like the stores there"; the wonderful thing is that there are many diverse kinds of people out there - some are preppy, some like urban wear and some are professionals. Just because YOU don't like most of the stores there doesn't mean that other people don't.

Edited April 9, 2009 by waccamatt

[Captain Worley]

Since I prefer to deal with exacts I went out to Columbia Place tonight to determine the correct percentages. My statement said that other than Dillards and Steve and Barry's, Columbia Place was 85 or 90% leased. I left out-buildings and kiosks out of the equation and counting stores in the mall, the other spaces count 78 leased and 17 empty. I was a little optimistic as this works out to 82.1% - a far cry from 70 or 75%, however.

I was thinking of doing just what you did. Frightening how much bankers and engineers love their numbers, isn't it?

Now get motivated and do the same for VAS!

Edited April 9, 2009 by Captain Worley

[waccamatt]

I was thinking of doing just what you did. Frightening how much bankers and engineers love their numbers, isn't it?

Now get motivated and do the same for VAS!

Well I think you and I have been around the block a few times and we know not to fall victim to hyperbole, lol.

[digital_sandlapper]

Since I prefer to deal with exacts I went out to Columbia Place tonight to determine the correct percentages. My statement said that other than Dillards and Steve and Barry's, Columbia Place was 85 or 90% leased. I left out-buildings and kiosks out of the equation and counting stores in the mall, the other spaces count 78 leased and 17 empty. I was a little optimistic as this works out to 82.1% - a far cry from 70 or 75%, however.

Gosh, now THAT is dedication--I tip my hat to you. I can't believe you went out there and wandered around counting the stores! Did security stop to question you?

Seriously, that certainly puts things to rest for now. I stand by my prediction, however, that CP's days are numbered unless a serious shift occurs. Leapfrog development is a terrible thing. Even worse are these inner rings of "greyfields" like that area of Columbia and all around to its other dying commercial corridors. Wish those could get re-developed more readily. There oughtta be a law . . .

Edited April 10, 2009 by digital_sandlapper

[xyhamiltonboi]

Wow I don't read this for a month and wow so many claims about a mall I know all too well about.

Macy's owns their space and has no plans to open a new location or shut the Columbia Place store. That store brings in close to $18,000.00 and since Dillard's closed that amount has increased. You don't fix what isn't broken and that's why Macy's has continued to invest in that store. Visit it, you'll see the renovation that took place a few years ago and the investment in bringing Sunglass Hut in. I know Sunglass Hut coming to Macy's was a corporate move, but the store does very well.

A dead mall doesn't generate interest from national or regional chains and Columbia Place has demonstrated in the last few years that their still lies interest. There have been a few urban store deals that have taken place, but stores like Express, Bath & Body Works, Victoria's Secret, Chick-fil-A, and Zales have renewed their leases.

I've always called chains doing site visits at malls they'll never open in a "comedy tour" and some of the names that have recently visited the former Steve & Barry's location (Columbia Place owned) and the former Dillard's location (Dillard's owned) are reputable places. Also keep in mind the economy for retail isn't the best and even ol General Growth and Columbiana Centre aren't doing what they want. It is very evident with a drive thru Columbia that Sandhill is underperforming, Richland got help, Dutch Square's redevelopment is on hold and we've read the news of GGP. There have been some new local stores that have opened in Columbia Place, but I guess I like the fact that it hasn't gotten to the point of Eastland where you don't feel safe and every store that opens caters to current and former convicts.

[mallguy]

I agree that Columbia Place is way better than Eastland (although my last visit to CP was in December 2007), but in Eastland's defense, even as late as 2005 it had 3 of 4 anchors and plenty of normal stores in it- Bombay, Chick-fil-A, American Eagle, etc. From my nearly weekly visits to it between 2005 and 2008 it held up OK and had plenty of mom & pop stores filling gaps when national chains closed, but once Belk closed, it really went downhill; plenty of national chains and nearly all of the Belk wing closed, and then Dillard's and now Sears are leaving. Malls can die off quickly- CP needs to find new anchors asap.

[101_ce]

I agree that Columbia Place is way better than Eastland (although my last visit to CP was in December 2007), but in Eastland's defense, even as late as 2005 it had 3 of 4 anchors and plenty of normal stores in it- Bombay, Chick-fil-A, American Eagle, etc. From my nearly weekly visits to it between 2005 and 2008 it held up OK and had plenty of mom & pop stores filling gaps when national chains closed, but once Belk closed, it really went downhill; plenty of national chains and nearly all of the Belk wing closed, and then Dillard's and now Sears are leaving. Malls can die off quickly- CP needs to find new anchors asap.

At least it is not the worst mall in the world: Most Empty/Worst Mall in World. In case you didn't notice "Retail" is the same as "Empty".

Edited April 27, 2009 by ct36

[waccamatt]

At least it is not the worst mall in the world: Most Empty/Worst Mall in World. In case you didn't notice "Retail" is the same as "Empty".

The anchors are keeping that mall going.

[101_ce]

The anchors are keeping that mall going.

Actually, Macy's and Dillard's have closed. The map is just not updated. Dillard's Stores in Florida,Macy's stores in Palm Beach Area. As you can see, both stores have actually closed. That mall only has 30 stores out of 100. Making it about 30% leased, now that is sad.

Edited April 28, 2009 by ct36