Columbia Place Mall

[Temeteron]

I honestly dont see what is so upscale about Parisian......maybe the ones in atlanta are...but the ones here honestly dont carry anything different than what Belk or Dillard's carries....for men anyways....what you can really call a upscale department store is: Bloomingdales, Neiman, Saks, and Lord & Taylor......those are stores where you can find $200+ jeans and brands like French Connection, Diesel, Armani, D&G, True Religion and so on.....

Edited December 9, 2005 by Temeteron

[csedwards72]

I honestly dont see what is so upscale about Parisian......maybe the ones in atlanta are...but the ones here honestly dont carry anything different than what Belk or Dillard's carries....for men anyways....what you can really call a upscale department store is: Bloomingdales, Neiman, Saks, and Lord & Taylor......those are stores where you can find $200+ jeans and brands like French Connection, Diesel, Armani, D&G, True Religion and so on.....

I always considered Parisian upscale because no junk is sold there. Any Belk's or Dillard's will have plenty of nice things there but will also have some $9.99 track suits. Parisian's high-end things aren't usually any fancier than at a nice Dillard's or Belk's but Parisian just doesn't have the cheap stuff.

That Richland Parisian needs some updating- when I first visited in '95 it was nice, but now it looks kind of ragged. I'm really surprised that the Columbiana one was the one that closed- thought it would have been Richland.

I'm also surprised that Parisian hasn't come to NC yet. Northlake Mall and SouthPark in Charlotte would be perfect for Parisian.

Edited December 9, 2005 by csedwards72

[Mr.Marc]

I don't know how many Parisian's Atlanta has, but the one in Phipps seems to have the same things as the ones here. Parisian's really doesn't impress me.

What Columbia probably needs in Columbia Place is a store that caters to the demographic of that area. Something different like Hecht's or a similar dept. store would be a nice anchor for Columbia Place.

It seems that Columbia either doesn't have the demographic or our leaders just do not want upscale stores here.

I would like to see upscale chain stores come to Columbia (and eventually they will), but it wouldn't do me any good because I can't afford, nor am I willing to pay $300 for jeans (at least right now )

[Mr.Marc]

OH! and to add to the above: COLUMBIA DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER BELK OR JCPENNY.

[krazeeboi]

I think that either the higher-end department stores overlook Columbia because of the population of the region (hasn't yet hit 1M) or because no one is really courting those stores. I think Kahn could have easily landed something different at the Village; perhaps he did, but they weren't interested? I'm not sure. I guess I could email them and find out.

[csedwards72]

Wasn't Bonwit Teller in the '80s pretty upscale? If that could be attracted then, why can't something similar be attracted now?

If you look at Saks Inc.'s annual reports, Parisian is described as a store aimed at upper-middle to upper-income residents of large markets. If Columbia meets that target, it should be able to get more good stores.

[xyhamiltonboi]

Hechts will not come. Federated Department Stores bought May Co. and will do away with all of the regional nameplates changing them to Macy's.

Bonwitteller closed due to bankruptcy. Their prices were outrageous for our city.

When talking to Columbia Place management, I was told they are courting both Traditional anchors and specialty retailers to fill the JCPenney space. They are not yet sure what they want to put in there and are looking at the outlines of what different tenants could do with the former JC Penney space.

Malls are moving away from the traditional department store format to compete and remain viable against newer Lifestyle Center formats. If you think for a minute that Columbia Place would go under. Let me send you the link to their home office.

www.cblproperties "Take a new look at CBL"

[StevenRocks]

It's kind of like xyhamiltonboi was saying to an extent. The department store as a retail type is at a low point right now, and it probably won't recover until somebody in the investment community understands that people aren't that thrilled with Wal-Mart and big box stores.

Most people want fair prices, and the big boxes are living up to that end of the bargain, but they also want the appaerance of customer service and a modiucum of style, which most big boxes don't offer. People as a whole really like the concept of a department store, but want to pay next to nothing to get it.

The disconnect comes when people vote with their pocketbooks rather than with their senses and the sales at Target et al keep going up, typically at the expense of department stores. It makes it very hard for an investor to put his money into department stores, and those companies try to save what they can by focusing on their most profitable stores.

What that means for midsized markets like Columbia, which has solid cores of loyal customers at stores with relatively low productivity is that they lose their stores with nothing to take their places, which in turn feeds into the big-boxes hands. Poeple will shop and need to shop, and presented with a somewhat viable option, will adjust and keep shopping.

If someone came up with a department store concept that embraced big-box style variety with more style, slightly higher prices and good service and focused on the neglected small to midsized markets in this country, they could make a fortune. Not only that, they'd have their pick of prime locations, because the big guys are throwing them away like old newspaper.

But I digress...

Edited December 10, 2005 by StevenRocks

[Temeteron]

What I dont understand is.....look at all the big huge houses in the Forest Acres and Arcadia Lakes areas.....One would think that there are people who can afford things from high-end stores......so why is Richland mall so empty? Why is Columbia Mall lacking in high-end stores? It really makes no sense......either these residents who live in these areas shop online or they must drive to columbiana or to Charlotte......I guess its kind of a domino effect.......most people dont go to richland mall because there's nothing there....and there's nothing in richland mall because most people dont go there....its just too bad because it honestly is a beautiful mall.....reminds me of the Atrium mall in Boston....very urban.....but there is very few stores in there......as for columbia place, I think it has found its niche in the urban wear section, which isnt a bad thing....just isnt really a mall that has a good mix.....But if you look at other malls like Columbiana...they dont have urban stores at all.....same thing in Charlotte with SouthPark....theres no urban wear in there at all....Eastland is the dominant urban mall in Charlotte.......there are a few urban wear stores in NorthLake though, theres that DTR store & D.E.M.O.(first in Charlotte)......but most malls are either one or the other......

Edited December 9, 2005 by Temeteron

[Spartan]

The problem with Richland Mall was not its clientel, but its lack of stores worth going to. That mall keep strying to act like a regional mall, when it is nothing of the sort. There are no other significant stores around that mall, unlike other malls where you see major retailers by the truckload.

I completely agree with those of you who have said that department stores are all the same. I see no major difference between them. They all have the same clothiers within generally. I find that Dillards has a better selection of quality ties, shirts, pants and such, but thats about it. I simply don't go to department stores for anything else. I'm a huge fan of Old Navy though. I never saw anything special about the Parisian at Colubiana.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Spartan

[xyhamiltonboi]

Columbia Place is not catering to urban wear. The new owners are trying to undo what was done prior to their aquisition. See my earlier post. THe current owners believe that Arcadia Lakes and Forest Acres do exist and they are marketing newer stores that have opened to a crowd that typically would shop Columbiana. Just this year Columbia Place has opened Charlotte Russe. A store that many would say typically would have gone to Columbiana. If Charlotte Russe was that big on being in markets they would have gone to Eastland, but they didn't.

[Temeteron]

Charlotte already has 2 Charlotte Russe's.......and its not really as upscale as say...Guess, Aldo, Lucky Brand or Bebe....it will be a cold day in hell when Columbia Place gets one of those.....no offense.....

[StevenRocks]

I completely agree with those of you who have said that department stores are all the same. I see no major difference between them. They all have the same clothiers within generally. I find that Dillards has a better selection of quality ties, shirts, pants and such, but thats about it. I simply don't go to department stores for anything else. I'm a huge fan of Old Navy though. I never saw anything special about the Parisian at Colubiana.

They're not really that much alike spartan. Dillard's is strong in apparel and shoes, May Company has killer hiome presentations, Belk excels at designer apparel in its larger stores, Parisian and Lord & Taylor refine their apparel to the upscale essentials. there a re plenty of subtle but telling differnces.

Actually, most department stores had more distinctive edges than those until Kohl's came in and the investment community decided that that is what the store of the future would look like. After Kohl's appeared on every corner and their stock price went through the roof, all the department stores started acting like Kohl's which helped confuse and bore consumers, leading to more decay in the sector.

Charlotte already has 2 Charlotte Russe's.......and its not really as upscale as say...Guess, Aldo, Lucky Brand or Bebe....it will be a cold day in hell when Columbia Place gets one of those.....no offense.....

Aldo is not all that upscale. Their shoes are crap, and they're just being selective where they locate so that they don't burn out location-wise as a chain.

[Temeteron]

we obviously have different opinions here lol

[Spartan]

They're not really that much alike spartan. Dillard's is strong in apparel and shoes, May Company has killer hiome presentations, Belk excels at designer apparel in its larger stores, Parisian and Lord & Taylor refine their apparel to the upscale essentials. there a re plenty of subtle but telling differnces.

Actually, most department stores had more distinctive edges than those until Kohl's came in and the investment community decided that that is what the store of the future would look like. After Kohl's appeared on every corner and their stock price went through the roof, all the department stores started acting like Kohl's which helped confuse and bore consumers, leading to more decay in the sector.

Right, but in principle they are the same. You go into any department store, and you see the same stuff as you did in the last department store. Sears may be the only one that is truely different. I can concede that it may be a different situation for females, but as a male, its all the same crap that I don't need. I view department stores much like I do fast food. Its all the same basic stuff (eg, burgers) so its only a matter of time before they figure out that if they make themselves different that they will make money (eg Hardees).

[waccamatt]

Right, but in principle they are the same. You go into any department store, and you see the same stuff as you did in the last department store. Sears may be the only one that is truely different. I can concede that it may be a different situation for females, but as a male, its all the same crap that I don't need. I view department stores much like I do fast food. Its all the same basic stuff (eg, burgers) so its only a matter of time before they figure out that if they make themselves different that they will make money (eg Hardees).

Er, Spartan; Hardees? You picked the worst of the bunch, at least service-wise.

[StevenRocks]

Right, but in principle they are the same. You go into any department store, and you see the same stuff as you did in the last department store. Sears may be the only one that is truely different. I can concede that it may be a different situation for females, but as a male, its all the same crap that I don't need. I view department stores much like I do fast food. Its all the same basic stuff (eg, burgers) so its only a matter of time before they figure out that if they make themselves different that they will make money (eg Hardees).

All stores are pretty much the same, spartan, when you think about it, and the more that department stores start resembling Kohl's and Wal-Mart, the less likely people are to pick them, which leadss to the failure of malls and the advancement of the road to the lowest common retail denominator.

Men don't buy as much as females, but if most of us looked after ourselves more, we'd need more stuff and these things would be more important to us.

Edited December 10, 2005 by StevenRocks

[Spartan]

Er, Spartan; Hardees? You picked the worst of the bunch, at least service-wise.

Hardees is an example of a chain that was in the process of makinga nose-dive. Their food was mediocre at best. Since they've embraced the 'thickburger' concept they seem to have lost that stigma, and its my understanding that they are doing well with it. The service varies from location to location. Its naturally going to take longer to get, but you get a much better end result. But then, people have different tastes when it comes to that type of thing. I may have to go get some lunch now

Back on topic, my point was that from my perspective they are all the same, and that differntiating one's self could lead to success.

I agree with some of what you said Steven. I don't think shopping will go to the lowest common denominator though. If that were the case, places like Publix and Barnes & Noble would not be popular. People want retail stores that have a good atmosphere to shop in as well as good products. I could see these department store anchors being replaced by more specialized ones, like Bass Pro Shops, or Bed Bath and Beyond, etc.

[Temeteron]

I dont know what Hardee's you go to but the one in Blythewood is amazing....it has to be the most upscale one I've ever been in...plasma TV's too! And they bring your food out to you!

[waccamatt]

I dont know what Hardee's you go to but the one in Blythewood is amazing....it has to be the most upscale one I've ever been in...plasma TV's too! And they bring your food out to you!

I'll have to check that one out sometime; most of the Hardee's I've been to have had terrible service.

[StevenRocks]

Back on topic, my point was that from my perspective they are all the same, and that differntiating one's self could lead to success.

I agree with some of what you said Steven. I don't think shopping will go to the lowest common denominator though. If that were the case, places like Publix and Barnes & Noble would not be popular. People want retail stores that have a good atmosphere to shop in as well as good products. I could see these department store anchors being replaced by more specialized ones, like Bass Pro Shops, or Bed Bath and Beyond, etc.

Not so fast. The highest and most specialized of the retailers will survive the dumbing down of retail, but the middle-market guys will have some homework to do.

In additon to the usual retail subjects, Publix and Barnes & Noble are being undercut by stores like Costco and Sam's Club, which lack atmosphere and service, but excel at price, and in the case of Costco, quality.

Publix is getting squeezed on the high end by more specialized grocery experiences and on the low end by Wal-Mart. if Wal-Mart builds enough stores in Publix neighborhoods, Publix will either have to reasses its merchandising or die. The danger in going upscale is that they become a smaller retailer by nature of the fact that most people can't afford upscale grocers regularly enough to keep their sales and productivity going at the current square footage.

Barnes & Noble is approaching a saturation point in the US and will have to squeeze more out of each store to keep afloat. The key to their sucess so far has been the experience, but with an overload of the experience comes complacency and boredom. They're not that competitve on price and the fetishization of coffee is reaching its tipping point. Meanwhile Costco and Sam's offer many of the same titles for substantially less and routinely sell as many popular titles as B&N. Barnes and Noble too will have will either have to reasses its merchandising or die.

I'm no expert, but I see problems ahead beause shopping has degenerated from service, familarity, and expertise to price, price and price.

Edited December 11, 2005 by StevenRocks

[Spartan]

I dont know what Hardee's you go to but the one in Blythewood is amazing....it has to be the most upscale one I've ever been in...plasma TV's too! And they bring your food out to you!

Thats pretty standard at all of them now, since it takes a little longer to make. Don't go to the one on Rosewood though. That one sucks.

Not so fast. The highest and most specialized of the retailers will survive the dumbing down of retail, but the middle-market guys will have some homework to do.

In additon to the usual retail subjects, Publix and Barnes & Noble are being undercut by stores like Costco and Sam's Club, which lack atmosphere and service, but excel at price, and in the case of Costco, quality.

Publix is getting squeezed on the high end by more specialized grocery experiences and on the low end by Wal-Mart. if Wal-Mart builds enough stores in Publix neighborhoods, Publix will either have to reasses its merchandising or die. The danger in going upscale is that they become a smaller retailer by nature of the fact that most people can't afford upscale grocers regularly enough to keep their sales and productivity going at the current square footage.

Barnes & Noble is approaching a saturation point in the US and will have to squeeze more out of each store to keep afloat. The key to their sucess so far has been the experience, but with an overload of the experience comes complacency and boredom. They're not that competitve on price and the fetishization of coffee is reaching its tipping point. Meanwhile Costco and Sam's offer many of the same titles for substantially less and routinely sell as many popular titles as B&N. Barnes and Noble too will have will either have to reasses its merchandising or die.

I'm no expert, but I see problems ahead beause shopping has degenerated from service, familarity, and expertise to price, price and price.

I disagree. I think that while price is certainly an issue for some people, many people would prefer a quality environment to shop in, and would be willing to pay slightly more for that and for convenience. The Publix in the Vista is a perfect example of this. If people only want cheap prices, they would be willing to make the trip to Walmart or to the Win Dixie (or whatever it is now) in Cayce.

I know that I go to Publix because I like the store, where it is, how it looks, etc. I know that I'm paying a bit more (but not that much compared to other grocers) for what is there, but I percieve it to be worth the small extra price. I have friends that don't. They go to walmart purely for the price. I think there is room for both ends of the spectrum without the 'dumbing down' of stores, as you say.

That is not to say that competition from Walmart and the more specialized stores is not a factor, but quality of life is becoming a major aspect of cities' growth and development around the nation, and the stores themselves are a major part of that. Just look at these new jazzy shopping centers like Sandhill, and these streetscaping projects designed for pedestrian orientation and street activity. If people didn't care then these types of things would not be happening.

[StevenRocks]

Thats pretty standard at all of them now, since it takes a little longer to make. Don't go to the one on Rosewood though. That one sucks.

I disagree. I think that while price is certainly an issue for some people, many people would prefer a quality environment to shop in, and would be willing to pay slightly more for that and for convenience. The Publix in the Vista is a perfect example of this. If people only want cheap prices, they would be willing to make the trip to Walmart or to the Win Dixie (or whatever it is now) in Cayce.

I know that I go to Publix because I like the store, where it is, how it looks, etc. I know that I'm paying a bit more (but not that much compared to other grocers) for what is there, but I percieve it to be worth the small extra price. I have friends that don't. They go to walmart purely for the price. I think there is room for both ends of the spectrum without the 'dumbing down' of stores, as you say.

That is not to say that competition from Walmart and the more specialized stores is not a factor, but quality of life is becoming a major aspect of cities' growth and development around the nation, and the stores themselves are a major part of that. Just look at these new jazzy shopping centers like Sandhill, and these streetscaping projects designed for pedestrian orientation and street activity. If people didn't care then these types of things would not be happening.

Most people, when asked, will say that they prefer a quality environment to shop in, and would be willing to pay slightly more for that and for convenience. In terms of dollars and sense, the types of retailers with the qualities people say that they want in a store are tepidly supported unless they offer customers seemingly rock-bottom prices.

Target is a prime example of this. Target paints the illusion of being a quality retailer more than it actually is one. With their department store heritage and tremendous buying power, they certainly could be offering customers a lot more in terms of quality, service and selection, for the same prices, but they don't. They scrape by on an inkling of style and a modicum of upscaleness and seal the deal with price.

Why? Because they're cheaper than JCPenney and Macy's and classier than Wal-Mart. That's pretty much all they have to do. Wal-Mart is polarizing and banal, Penney's is not a savvy marketer, Macy's is asleep at the wheel. It's brilliant marketing on Target's part (and the business equivilent of shooting fish in a barrel), but it still doesn't do a lot for consumers.

The development of lifestyle centers is more complicated than people actually wanting these places to exist and developers graciously stepping in to fill demand. Lifestyle centers like Sandhill are based on greed, white flight and nostalgia.

Malls have become old and predictable (just like in my B&N example, with an overload of the experience comes complacency and boredom), many of them are located in demographically-challenged areas (like Eastland Mall in Charlotte), and people, out of fear, nostalgia and boredom, have reverted to the illusion of what small town commerce was early in the 20th century. Never mind that the environments are largely as fake as the malls consumers have run from, demographically homogenous, and less welcoming and "free" than an actual city street, the fountains and bric-a-brac fronted by Talbots, Chico's and Williams-Sonoma seem somehow more "authentic" than the same configuration with a roof down the road.

Lest we not forget the greed of mall developers. Most of them spent the last four decades killing off city streets to build enclosed malls just to realize that, believe it or not, overexpansion makes consumers bored and retailers complacent. So now, in order to keep building and make their shareholders happy, they're embarking on bringing the increasingly bland sameness of the lifestyle center to each and every market in the US that can demographically support them, whether they want them or not.

Augusta, Ga. has six lifestyle centers planned. So does Allentown, Pa. Keep in mind that neither of these markets is in need of that much more shopping. They're being proposed because this is the next way to trick people into spending more than they have. Not all of these malls, and they are malls, will be built, but many of them will, and they'll rob the '70s and '80s malls and '80s and '90s power centers and outlets that came before of their stores and livelihoods. The primary victims will be the department stores and mall based retailers that truly offer a quality environment to shop in, but that nobody shops in, even though they say that's what they want.

Long story short, even though you and me are choosing stores based on more traditional issues, most people are focusing on price, and it will render the industry irrelevant in he next two decades unless retailers themselves try to do more to stop it than lip-service, cannibalization, sprawl and Mayberry facades.

[waccamatt]

Actually, internet shopping will end up winning, IMO.

[krazeeboi]

I can do books and CD's on the internet, but not clothes.