Pics of the Architecture of E Fay Jones

[tombarnes]

I have always been a big fan of the work of E. Fay Jones. His buildings are light and ethereal without losing their grounding in the earth. I loved the story about a young Jones at the opening of Glenn McCarthy's Shamrock Hotel in Houston on March 17th, 1949. Frank Lloyd Wright was there as well, but Wright didn't care for the Shamrock at all....Pointing at the ballroom ceiling, Wright quipped "That, young man, is an example of the effects of venereal disease on architecture!" Jones' reactions went unrecorded.

[Mith242]

I have always been a big fan of the work of E. Fay Jones. His buildings are light and ethereal without losing their grounding in the earth. I loved the story about a young Jones at the opening of Glenn McCarthy's Shamrock Hotel in Houston on March 17th, 1949. Frank Lloyd Wright was there as well, but Wright didn't care for the Shamrock at all....Pointing at the ballroom ceiling, Wright quipped "That, young man, is an example of the effects of venereal disease on architecture!" Jones' reactions went unrecorded.

Thanks for the info Tom. In case there are a few that don't know E Fay Jones was a student of Frank Loyd Wright. E Fay Jones is considered his best student. Quite an interesting contrast in personalities between the two of them.

[Mith242]

Some new info on the possibility of E Fay Jones' Butterfly House being turned into a synagogue. With all the huge objections the temple congregation is now considering a vote on what to do which might be just to give up and not fight with the local homeowners. Of course the homeowners all say that traffic will get out of hand if there's a synagogue there. Although I couldn't help but notice no mention of the houses being developed in the same area. Maybe the homeowners should go complain about that as well. For that matter maybe we should stop all developments in the entire city because guess what all they're going to do is create more traffic. I'm sorry but I just don't see how converting a house into a synagogue is going to create this huge traffic jam. This isn't some huge mansion we're talking about that's going to house a temple of hundreds. This is really just a sad situation. So much for Fayetteville being a great open minded community. Maybe a word like prejustice needs to be mentioned as well. I still have to seriously question whether this would be the big issue it is if it were a small Christian chapel being talked about instead of a Jewish synagogue.

[masons_dad1]

Some new info on the possibility of E Fay Jones' Butterfly House being turned into a synagogue. With all the huge objections the temple congregation is now considering a vote on what to do which might be just to give up and not fight with the local homeowners. Of course the homeowners all say that traffic will get out of hand if there's a synagogue there. Although I couldn't help but notice no mention of the houses being developed in the same area. Maybe the homeowners should go complain about that as well. For that matter maybe we should stop all developments in the entire city because guess what all they're going to do is create more traffic. I'm sorry but I just don't see how converting a house into a synagogue is going to create this huge traffic jam. This isn't some huge mansion we're talking about that's going to house a temple of hundreds. This is really just a sad situation. So much for Fayetteville being a great open minded community. Maybe a word like prejustice needs to be mentioned as well. I still have to seriously question whether this would be the big issue it is if it were a small Christian chapel being talked about instead of a Jewish synagogue.

I know where you're coming from. I never considered locals of Fayetteville or anywhere in Northwest Arkansas to be open-minded. Most of the open-minded people here moved here from somewhere else. This is the Bible Belt and people here tend to not want anything else in their neighborhood. There isn't much of a progressive attitude in the minds of people who see their mountain man wilderness becoming an urban jungle. The city may be moving into the 21st century but the minds of most locals are still stuck in limbo yearning for the good ole days.

[Mith242]

There was a mention on KNWA news that the neighborhood said this was nothing against the Jewish synagogue and they would have been just as opposed to a Christian church on the same site. But I'm still just having a hard time understanding the big problem here. I just can't see traffic being that much worse on that road because of the synagogue. Like I said before I just don't think there's going to be that big of a congregation. I doubt it would even be 100 probably closer to 50 people. I guess after seeing many more 'enlightened' people at the 2025 meetings this was just a slap in the face to remember that there is that other aspect to the city as well.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

There was a mention on KNWA news that the neighborhood said this was nothing against the Jewish synagogue and they would have been just as opposed to a Christian church on the same site. But I'm still just having a hard time understanding the big problem here. I just can't see traffic being that much worse on that road because of the synagogue. Like I said before I just don't think there's going to be that big of a congregation. I doubt it would even be 100 probably closer to 50 people. I guess after seeing many more 'enlightened' people at the 2025 meetings this was just a slap in the face to remember that there is that other aspect to the city as well.

Its a NIMBY issue.

Property owners have every right to object to a new, non-residential use in their residential neighborhood.

A church isn't that big of a deal as far as traffic, etc goes, but in a residential neighborhood, you have to consider the events that will be taking place there. Weddings, meetings, regular services, Bris, bar mitzvahs, etc.. It will add an element of activity to a residential neighborhood that has not existed before.

Zoning exists for a reason and resident homeowners have every right to question the change of use of property within their neighborhood.

Alleging prejudice or suggesting that they are "stuck in the past" for doing so is very off base IMHO.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I know where you're coming from. I never considered locals of Fayetteville or anywhere in Northwest Arkansas to be open-minded. Most of the open-minded people here moved here from somewhere else. This is the Bible Belt and people here tend to not want anything else in their neighborhood. There isn't much of a progressive attitude in the minds of people who see their mountain man wilderness becoming an urban jungle. The city may be moving into the 21st century but the minds of most locals are still stuck in limbo yearning for the good ole days.

Your posts on so many levels reveal a very contradictory nature.

You concede that NWA is a great place to live because of the "quality of life."

Yet you resent a local, provincial, preservationist attitude that you perceive among those natives who would rather it not become an "urban jungle".

It never once occurs to you that the very reasons it is a nice place to live might exist in large part due to the provincial, preservationist attitudes you obviously detest.

I've even seen you post that NWA needs more poverty in order that it may support a mass transit system.

If you are so disgusted by living in a small largely Caucasian metropolitan area like NWA, then move. Oh, but then a larger, more diverse, poorer metropolitan wouldn't offer the same "quality of life" you seek. Crime would be higher, schools of a lower quality, and traffic, pollution and sprawl worse.

I percieve on this forum from many posters the desire to change and in effect, destroy much of what makes the community great in the name of so-called progress. Perhaps a forum like urban planet attracts a large number of skyscraper-o-philes and megalomaniacs who for whatever reason cannot affect any true change in their lives or are afraid to move to a true large metropolitan area.

I no longer find this discussion forum interesting or worthwhile.

[Mith242]

Your posts on so many levels reveal a very contradictory nature.

You concede that NWA is a great place to live because of the "quality of life."

Yet you resent a local, provincial, preservationist attitude that you perceive among those natives who would rather it not become an "urban jungle".

It never once occurs to you that the very reasons it is a nice place to live might exist in large part due to the provincial, preservationist attitudes you obviously detest.

I've even seen you post that NWA needs more poverty in order that it may support a mass transit system.

If you are so disgusted by living in a small largely Caucasian metropolitan area like NWA, then move. Oh, but then a larger, more diverse, poorer metropolitan wouldn't offer the same "quality of life" you seek. Crime would be higher, schools of a lower quality, and traffic, pollution and sprawl worse.

I percieve on this forum from many posters the desire to change and in effect, destroy much of what makes the community great in the name of so-called progress. Perhaps a forum like urban planet attracts a large number of skyscraper-o-philes and megalomaniacs who for whatever reason cannot affect any true change in their lives or are afraid to move to a true large metropolitan area.

I no longer find this discussion forum interesting or worthwhile.

I'm not sure what you read into my posts but I never said we need more poverty to support a public transport. But I also don't agree with maiking Fayetteville a place for only the rich to live either. I also don't see how allowing one small synagogue constitutes Fayetteville becoming an 'urban jungle'. I do think we need to preserve our neighborhoods but we're not talking about putting in some shopping center we're talking about a small synagogue. I simply do not see how this could cause so many problems like so many of the neighbors claim it will. I am not 'disgusted' by NWA's white population but I do think adding more diversity will make the city and area a more complete metro. In my opinion a true city and metro is a place for many people if different cultures, races, and religions. I realize you favor emphasizing people's commonalities while I tend to prefer to embrace diversity. As far as I am concerened for better or worse Fayetteville is my home and I intend to stay and make it better in the way I feel I should. I believe in making my city a better place to live. Not to just give up and move somewhere else. As far as you assessment of the area yes NWA is a great place to live but it's also easy for people who don't live here to say that the area shouldn't change and should stay the way it is right now. I see where you're coming from but I think many people are going to want to improve the cities they live in and not simply try to keep everything the way it is. Just my viewpoint, I'm sorry if it doesn't correspond to your views.

[masons_dad1]

I'm not sure what you read into my posts but I never said we need more poverty to support a public transport. But I also don't agree with maiking Fayetteville a place for only the rich to live either. I also don't see how allowing one small synagogue constitutes Fayetteville becoming an 'urban jungle'. I do think we need to preserve our neighborhoods but we're not talking about putting in some shopping center we're talking about a small synagogue. I simply do not see how this could cause so many problems like so many of the neighbors claim it will. I am not 'disgusted' by NWA's white population but I do think adding more diversity will make the city and area a more complete metro. In my opinion a true city and metro is a place for many people if different cultures, races, and religions. I realize you favor emphasizing people's commonalities while I tend to prefer to embrace diversity. As far as I am concerened for better or worse Fayetteville is my home and I intend to stay and make it better in the way I feel I should. I believe in making my city a better place to live. Not to just give up and move somewhere else. As far as you assessment of the area yes NWA is a great place to live but it's also easy for people who don't live here to say that the area shouldn't change and should stay the way it is right now. I see where you're coming from but I think many people are going to want to improve the cities they live in and not simply try to keep everything the way it is. Just my viewpoint, I'm sorry if it doesn't correspond to your views.

You misunderstood Mith... DickSonstreetDFW's post was directed at me, not at anything you posted.

I percieve on this forum from many posters the desire to change and in effect, destroy much of what makes the community great in the name of so-called progress. Perhaps a forum like urban planet attracts a large number of skyscraper-o-philes and megalomaniacs who for whatever reason cannot affect any true change in their lives or are afraid to move to a true large metropolitan area.

I no longer find this discussion forum interesting or worthwhile.

Bye.

[Mith242]

You misunderstood Mith... DickSonstreetDFW's post was directed at me, not at anything you posted.

Ah, I see now. I would like to say though, that some of the things I said earlier were a bit harsh. Although I still say I'm still having a hard time seeing how a synagogue is going to cause so many problems. True there will be other services and such than the usual but I guess I just don't see them happening very often. Yes as property owners they do have the right to complain. I wasn't too surprised that some would complain, I guess what I found more surprising is that it sounds like the whole neighborhood complained and did it so strongly.

[masons_dad1]

Ah, I see now. I would like to say though, that some of the things I said earlier were a bit harsh. Although I still say I'm still having a hard time seeing how a synagogue is going to cause so many problems. True there will be other services and such than the usual but I guess I just don't see them happening very often. Yes as property owners they do have the right to complain. I wasn't too surprised that some would complain, I guess what I found more surprising is that it sounds like the whole neighborhood complained and did it so strongly.

I wouldn't be too concerned about it unless the property owners marched to city hall carrying torches and chanting... at least I hope that's not the case here.

But really it's a mute point because the Mt. Sequoyah Conference & Retreat Center is described as a mini-college, has year-round motel-like accomodations for 350 and conference facilities for several hundred people. There are 52 buildings, including meeting rooms, classrooms and a cafeteria on the 30-acre campus. There are around 55 events scheduled at the center. Most importantly, in the 1920's the city's residents paid $115,000 of their property taxes to bring the center to Mt. Sequoyah.

[masons_dad1]

But really it's a mute point because the Mt. Sequoyah Conference & Retreat Center is described as a mini-college, has year-round motel-like accomodations for 350 and conference facilities for several hundred people. There are 52 buildings, including meeting rooms, classrooms and a cafeteria on the 30-acre campus. There are around 55 events scheduled at the center. Most importantly, in the 1920's the city's residents paid $115,000 of their property taxes to bring the center to Mt. Sequoyah.

I just wanted to point this out because the residents are so concerned about traffic that a small temple would cause yet 50 Sundays throughout the year hundreds of Methodists converge onto Mt. Sequoyah Conference & Retreat... and that doesn't cause traffic problems? What's worse is that most events at the Methodist Retreat are 3-4 days long! I'm not too familiar with Jewish religious practices, but I can't see how the residents are concerned when they're not worried about the traffic Methodists already cause in their community.

[Mith242]

The only thing I could say to that is that I don't think people use the road that the Butterfly House is on to get to the Mt Sequoyah Retreat area. I don't know if you could call this a seperate neighborhood per se, but they seem to be acting as a seperate entity than much of the rest of the area. Granted the Mt Sequoyah area isn't exactly small either, it actually does cover a lot of area in the city.

[masons_dad1]

The only thing I could say to that is that I don't think people use the road that the Butterfly House is on to get to the Mt Sequoyah Retreat area. I don't know if you could call this a seperate neighborhood per se, but they seem to be acting as a seperate entity than much of the rest of the area. Granted the Mt Sequoyah area isn't exactly small either, it actually does cover a lot of area in the city.

Good point. I'm sorry if I kept on about this being a religious issue as it doesn't seem to be the case here. I hope the Synagogue does find a home somewhere as nice as the Butterfly House.

[mcheiss]

Your posts on so many levels reveal a very contradictory nature.

You concede that NWA is a great place to live because of the "quality of life."

Yet you resent a local, provincial, preservationist attitude that you perceive among those natives who would rather it not become an "urban jungle".

It never once occurs to you that the very reasons it is a nice place to live might exist in large part due to the provincial, preservationist attitudes you obviously detest.

I've even seen you post that NWA needs more poverty in order that it may support a mass transit system.

If you are so disgusted by living in a small largely Caucasian metropolitan area like NWA, then move. Oh, but then a larger, more diverse, poorer metropolitan wouldn't offer the same "quality of life" you seek. Crime would be higher, schools of a lower quality, and traffic, pollution and sprawl worse.

I percieve on this forum from many posters the desire to change and in effect, destroy much of what makes the community great in the name of so-called progress. Perhaps a forum like urban planet attracts a large number of skyscraper-o-philes and megalomaniacs who for whatever reason cannot affect any true change in their lives or are afraid to move to a true large metropolitan area.

I no longer find this discussion forum interesting or worthwhile.

You need to learn to respect the opinions of others. I haven't seen anyone lash out at you, but you have caused plenty of trouble on this forum. I have respected your opinions on plenty of issues, yet you have lashed out at others. You need to do some growing up. We here at Urban Planet are not a bunch of "skyscraper-o-philes or megalomaniacs who can't move to a large metro area as you said" but a community of local civic enthusiests who enjoy sharing the info about our communities and what lies ahead. If you don't like that, then leave.

[Mith242]

I would like to say that I apologize for getting worked up about this issue and getting this started. I may not have agreed with how this situation turned about with the neighborhood and such but I shouldn't have made such a big deal about this. It's a shame that it doesn't look like the house will be turned into a synagogue but I guess they'll just have to look elsewhere to have their synagogue.

[mcheiss]

It's not your fault, Mith, don't worry about it. You were just stating your opinion on the subject.

[Mith242]

Well I still feel I should set a better example being one of the older Arkansas forumers. Although I think there were a couple like Johnny and Arkansawyer that were coming here before I was.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

You need to learn to respect the opinions of others. I haven't seen anyone lash out at you, but you have caused plenty of trouble on this forum. I have respected your opinions on plenty of issues, yet you have lashed out at others. You need to do some growing up. We here at Urban Planet are not a bunch of "skyscraper-o-philes or megalomaniacs who can't move to a large metro area as you said" but a community of local civic enthusiests who enjoy sharing the info about our communities and what lies ahead. If you don't like that, then leave.

There are a number of different people with different views who post on here.

You nor I speak for them all.

I have only called a few posters on ignorant, reactionary postings such as alleging religious prejudice because homeowners rightfully show concern about surprise zoning changes in their neighborhood, and portraying longtime residents as intolerant, racist, and non-progressive when they voice objections to changes in their community.

All change is not good, and no true civic activist would will change on their community for the sake of change. Anyone who does is obviously not happy with their station or locale in life and would be best advised to take steps to change either or both.

This is, for the most part, a community of civic enthusiasts. There are many, yourself not included, who simply cannot even maintain consistency in their opinions, but rather whine and moan and take whatever posture fits their narrow view or gives them a reason to post non-sense, non-productive drivel when they are bored at work or home and feel the need to co-opt a victim mentality momentarily.

That is anyone's right, as this is a fairly public forum. Its also anyone's right to disagree or offer an altenate viewpoint. The quality of information will improve when meandering, inconsistent, stream of consciousness ramblings are replaced with coherent, defensible, responsible relevant posts. The only way to do that is to object to the former when they are present.

The problem is that NWA is a rather young forum and its activity is low. Quality is not a consideration as much as quantity and its very existence and relevance hinges on traffic.

Respecting opinions of others does not mean agreeing with them. Pointing out inconsistencies and foolishness (such as suggesting that NWA needs more poor people so that it may invest in public transit, for example) is part of any rational discourse.

The necessity of quantity here leaves no room for discerning quality, which will in turn cause many people with relevant information to exchange to find the forum to be tiresome and irrelevant.

[masons_dad1]

Yeah we don't want to end up like the Dallas Forum.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Yeah we don't want to end up like the Dallas Forum.

I personally find myself disagreeing with many of your posts. I find some of them to be reactionary and non-productive. It depends on a person's perspective I suppose as I'm sure some of my opinions are beyond the general consensus.

Still, I should refrain from generally attacking an individual.

I reserve the right to vehemently disagree with anyone on this forum, personally attacking aside.

We should strive for well thought out, defensible, rational discussion and a big part of that is going to be disagreement on certain topics.

I am a young guy, but in the years since my university days, I have had the opportunity to evaluate and discern many weak and many strong communities. I have been educated on the finer points of good vs. bad developments. My primary concern is maintenance of quality of life in NWA.

If none of us cared about our communities, we wouldn't be here in the first place.

*olive branch*

[masons_dad1]

I personally find myself disagreeing with many of your posts. I find some of them to be reactionary and non-productive. It depends on a person's perspective I suppose as I'm sure some of my opinions are beyond the general consensus.

Still, I should refrain from generally attacking an individual.

I reserve the right to vehemently disagree with anyone on this forum, personally attacking aside.

We should strive for well thought out, defensible, rational discussion and a big part of that is going to be disagreement on certain topics.

I am a young guy, but in the years since my university days, I have had the opportunity to evaluate and discern many weak and many strong communities. I have been educated on the finer points of good vs. bad developments. My primary concern is maintenance of quality of life in NWA.

If none of us cared about our communities, we wouldn't be here in the first place.

*olive branch*

Live and let live is my motto. I don't mean to upset anyone with my, at times, extremist or over-the-top comments. I tend to let emotions guide my commentary. I believe that we all contribute something whenever we post, whether it be reactionary or well thought out or whatever. Good communication doesn't mean we have to agree with each other and it would be kind of "Stepford Wives" if all we all got along perfectly.

What I consider a good "quality of life" may not be the same as everyones views. I believe we can have a largely urban metro without sacrificing anyone's personal "quality of life". Trees, lakes and skyscrapers side by side and non-segregated ethnic and religious groups sharing the communities. But then Utopia is just a dream isn't it?

[johnnydr87]

Just wanted to post a few more pics. The Underwood Building in Fayetteville isn't what everyone thinks of when you mention E Fay Jones but he did design it.

Maybe i have no taste, but i really don't like these designs.....

[Mith242]

Yeah it's certainly not my favorite design of his. I will say it's different from a lot of his other stuff though. I admit I'm not sure how old it is. But it almost looks like something done back in the 70's. I've always wondered if this was his reaction to trying to do something a bit more 'urban'.

[masons_dad1]

Maybe i have no taste, but i really don't like these designs.....

Now that you mention it the design does turn my stomach.