State government report card

[krazeeboi]

Well, the results are in, and SC's overall grade is a..............(drumroll)................B. Not too shabby.

Here's how it shakes down:

[Jerseyman4]

NC and GA received the same grade as SC in Infrastructure.

Suprising and yet i dont feel thats been fairly assessed. The large majority of roads in NC are maintained by the NCDOT while in GA have county DOT's that are hit and miss (depending on the county) on overall quality such as signage, pavement quality, etc. You can go safely 65mph on a NC county backroad (state road is the correct term, not county) but risky on a GA county backroad generally speaking.

Now, if the majority of the roads in GA were done by GDOT, that would be a different story! GDOT is way better than the county DOTS

[krazeeboi]

The Infrastructure category has five divisions: capital planning, project monitoring, maintenance, internal coordination, and intergovernmental coordination. SC scored low in maintenence, high in intergovernmental coordination, and average in the other divisions. All things considered (including non-transportation related infrastructure), I'm sure the rankings are fairly accurate.

[krazeeboi]

Also, while our Infrastructure commentary was pretty grim, I would have liked to see the reviewers highlight some of the successes of SCDOT, such as completing the Cooper River Bridge, not on schedule, but ahead of time (by like a year, I think). Also, as far as I can tell, the interstates surrounding our urban areas are pretty much up to par. I definitely give SCDOT kudos for widening I-77 from Rock Hill to the state line and configuring exit 82 (my exit) in Rock Hill.

[krazeeboi]

C'mon guys, if we can criticize the "backwardness" of the state, surely we can give some attention to our state's successes! We don't get everything right, but we don't get everything wrong either!

[Spartan]

You know, our roads may be the deadliest in the nation, but I don't see them as being inany worse condition than NC or GA's roads (each of which I have spent MANY hours on). I'd say that NC's are much worse.

[Jerseyman4]

I'd say that NC's are much worse.

NC roads are worse than SC? Id like to hear why you say that?

The SC urban interstates are better than NC, ill give you that one.

[Spartan]

I've spent my share of time in places like Asheville, Shelby, Gastonia, Charlotte.... and all have the same problem- the roads suck. Sometimes the downtowns are nicely paved (Asheville) but get out to the rest of the city and they suck (Gastonia- if you consider Franklin Square its 'downtown'). I will say that the last time I was on Franklin Blvd in Gastonia they had just paved it, but it had obviously been around 10 years since it had been paved before that.

[Jerseyman4]

I've spent my share of time in places like Asheville, Shelby, Gastonia, Charlotte.... and all have the same problem- the roads suck. Sometimes the downtowns are nicely paved (Asheville) but get out to the rest of the city and they suck (Gastonia- if you consider Franklin Square its 'downtown'). I will say that the last time I was on Franklin Blvd in Gastonia they had just paved it, but it had obviously been around 10 years since it had been paved before that.

I can speak for Asheville and Charlotte, the roads as a whole are not great but not horrible either although Asheville does need a lot of improvements (especially I-240 and some downtown streets). I am ok with the western NC comments, i have limited knowledge of anything west of I-77 but statewide (esp. east of I-77), i disagree.

NC is probably the only state on the east coast from personal experience you can go 65mph safely on a backroad (the State Road 1XXX roads) without having to slow down for curves. NCDOT is a higher institution for engineering on rural highways whether its primary or secondary numbered routes to being at the same standards for wide lanes and gentle curves. You do have your exceptions on low traffic volume roads like cul-de-sacs and short-cuts but even SCDOT isnt too shabby on its backroads either especially with the BIG NOTICABLE stop signs whether its a wired overhead rectangle sign that says "STOP", a flashing red light or a GIANT stop sign.

SCDOT is not better than NCDOT, here is why. First, SCDOT normally does not mark turn lanes with arrows and to make it even more dangerous, designate turn lanes with broken lines instead of a solid white line. Too many out of state motorists driving on US 501 to Myrtle Beach get into accidents of seeing the left turning lane suddenly drop and there goes the minivan from New York stuck nearly went into the median-ditch or swerves back into the lane just in time. The shoulder and lane widths on all types of highways are smaller than NC. Many primary highways provide bypasses of towns, SC seldomly does bypasses but i think eventually, it will become a higher priority as the years go by. SC interstates for a long time did not install guardrails or wired guardrails in the median but are picking up steam on some interstates. The speed limit rationales by the SCDOT make less sense and does not have uniformity like in NC. The rural 2 lane highways seldomly install turn lanes. The four lane arterials seldomly install turn lanes and instead, leave a median break. Most traffic signals (and ground sensors) are dull and old but in some places, SCDOT are installing LED's/new sensors in the cities. A lot of ground signage in general is old and should be all replaced. Ground stick reflectors and reflectors are not adequate in all areas.

I am not trying to bash SCDOT but i think they can be a lot better by just looking at GA and NC's success of providing a proven (but growing) statewide reliable transportation system. My SC driving experience is all east of I-77. I went through the upstate once in the middle of the night on I-85 coming back from Atlanta. If the upstate does not fit teh category(s) of what i know of SC, please tell me because i am not including the upstate in my list.

In a seperate post, if requested, i can list the good things about SCDOT so i dont make it sound like they are the worst DOT ever because there are some states up in New England that are by far the worst DOT's in my opinion

[Spartan]

You have some good points, and I see nothing wrong with constructive crticism. The shoulder width IS a problem. I big one. That is a hold over form the 50's when SC was much more rural in nature than it is now, and nobody ever expected growth to reach the areas it is now. Newer roads do have the large shoulders.... its those old ones that are never upgraded, just resurfaced that are the problem.

I don't see the problem with not having turning lanes in rural areas. You may need to explain that one some more.

As for bypasses... Most towns of any significance in SC have bypassesd. I'm sure that some of the 'villages' do not, but really, why do you need to bypass something that small. The bypasses are built up, just like the ones in NC are. I personally do not like bypasses as they are death to downtowns, and they eventually become the very thing that they were built to bypass (congested), which is why cities like Shelby might get a second bypass.

Just for fun here, can you show some examples of some cities that do not have a bypass that should.

I like driving through rural GA and bring made to drive through most of the small towns they have. Its very charming, and it give me a sense of progression on my trip.

[Jerseyman4]

I don't see the problem with not having turning lanes in rural areas. You may need to explain that one some more.

The highest speed limit in SC on a four lane arterial is 60mph so speed variate from 55 to 70. Whether signals are used or not, if someone is unfamilar with the highway they are traveling and someone is turning, I presume a turning lane will be provided for that person but if not, that means i must move over if i am using the left lane for passing to begin with. US 17 bypass in Myrtle Beach is a classic example of many median breaks without turning lanes. In the summer months, traffic backs up like crazy from people simply making left turns. High speeds on four lane arterials need turning lanes so traffic does not cause a domino effect of people stopping, its unsafe.

As for bypasses... Most towns of any significance in SC have bypassesd. I'm sure that some of the 'villages' do not, but really, why do you need to bypass something that small. The bypasses are built up, just like the ones in NC are. I personally do not like bypasses as they are death to downtowns, and they eventually become the very thing that they were built to bypass (congested), which is why cities like Shelby might get a second bypass.

SC 9 would be a great start of providing bypasses east of Chester County. Although you do have a few in Loris and Bennettsville, SC 9 is an alternative to US 74 going to the beach. I am not saying every town needs to be bypassed but in today's society, travel through towns is not the way of getting from point A to point B. Even in NJ out of all states, two bypasses were built in the last few years along NJ 33 to improve travel between Princeton and the beach. Truck traffic through Hightstown and Freehold were clogging the city streets.

I never like to see decaying downtowns myself but there are towns that are decaying anyways like Cheraw with no bypass for US 1 and SC 9. Normally, downtowns decay from bypasses because its easier to build a Wal Mart off an exit with fast food restaurants right by. The younger generation are more inclined to the "off the exit" ameneties than traditional downtown mom&pop stores. Its sad but that is the trend America is leaning towards. I am always 100% for downtown re-development.

Just for fun here, can you show some examples of some cities that do not have a bypass that should.

Cheraw, Georgetown, Lake City, Kingstree, McClellanville(my wishlist), Garden City, Murrels Inlet, Pawleys Island (SC 31 extension that wont happen),

[Spartan]

I see tow problems: one is that you are too focused on getting to Myrtle Beach. The other is that you are comparing SC to NJ- the sprawl capital of America. I think most people take the 26-20 route, which tends to be more effecient at getting to MB.

The main highway in Chester is 321, which has a bypass- that it shares with the Hwy 9 bypass no less. As for eastern Chester? Do you want to bypass- the woods or something? I really dont get it.

Cheraw is in an economically depressed area of the state, so traffic is irrelevent in that case.

I can buy your argument about left-turn lanes. The good nes is that I heard the state is planning to do something about those in the future.

[Jerseyman4]

I see tow problems: one is that you are too focused on getting to Myrtle Beach. The other is that you are comparing SC to NJ- the sprawl capital of America. I think most people take the 26-20 route, which tends to be more effecient at getting to MB.

I know the Pee Dee and Low Country the best in SC. All i was trying to point out with the new bypasses built in NJ is that bypassing towns is todays solution to improve inter-regional travel and for a state that is limited on space, really felt these bypasses could help traffic.

The main highway in Chester is 321, which has a bypass- that it shares with the Hwy 9 bypass no less. As for eastern Chester? Do you want to bypass- the woods or something? I really dont get it.

I dont know anything about Chester, its west of I-77.

Cheraw is in an economically depressed area of the state, so traffic is irrelevent in that case.

Likewise with Rockingham, NC to the north, it is a crossroads town of major highways: US Hwys 1 and 52 and SC 9. Cheraw is an economically depressed area (so is most of the pee dee) but it has potential to see a lot of growth with the massive highway building in NC that is influencing highway building (like SC 38 and US 501 for instance). I-73 was going to be routed near Cheraw but is now taking the NC/SC 38 corridor instead. Someday, i vision US 1 being a moderately traveled route between the two carolina capitol cities in the next 30-50 years. Right now of course, traffic volumes are very low on US 1 between Cheraw and Camden.

I can buy your argument about left-turn lanes. The good nes is that I heard the state is planning to do something about those in the future.

I heard about a campaign of providing more turn lanes for two lane roads more so than four lane highways. I think it was Gov. Sanford who came up with the plan a while back.

[Spartan]

My point is that there is nothing in Chester to bypass.

I don't want to see all of our roads turned into these miserable 4 lans divided monstrosities unless it is absolutely necessary.