US Migration

[bork]

Interesting article in the NYT -

http://nytimes.com/2005/11/07/business/07m...artner=homepage

Mentions the large number of people from CA/NY that are moving to other places in the country. Specifically cites the large number of people from NY moving to "Albany, Charlotte, NC and Allentown, PA."

[monsoon]

I can see the migration to Charlotte, but why in the world would anyone want to migrate to Albany or Allentown?

[SmellyCat]

I can see the migration to Charlotte, but why in the world would anyone want to migrate to Albany or Allentown?

As it specifically refers to NYers moving there, I think those places are more about their fairly close proximity to NYC. Upstate NY also has some of the most affordable housing in the U.S.

[monsoon]

Albany isn't that affordable and I don't think they consider that to be upstate NY. But maybe it could be.

[csedwards72]

Albany isn't that affordable and I don't think they consider that to be upstate NY. But maybe it could be.

People are moving to Albany and Allentown, PA because those areas are now on the fringes of the NYC metropolitan area. Manhattan is too expensive for a lot of people, the outer boroughs of NYC are not particularly desirable for some, and even Long Island, northern New Jersey, Connecticut, Westchester, etc. are nice but are too expensive as well. Thus people deal with very long commutes by bus from Pennsylvania or by train from the Albany area to their jobs in Manhattan.

That's what happens when there is too much population growth in an area. Charlotte, beware and don't let massive population growth happen or else Charlotte will face similar (although less acute, certainly) problems.

[monsoon]

Ahh that would explain it. I hope it isn't for commuting purposes however.

[SmellyCat]

Wow, Albany to NYC is one heckuva commute - 150 miles! Even with minimal traffic, you're probably looking at a 3 hour drive each way. Amtrak is not much faster at 2-1/2 hours.

Imagine the insanity of spending 25-30 hours a week just commuting.

[bork]

Wow, Albany to NYC is one heckuva commute - 150 miles! Even with minimal traffic, you're probably looking at a 3 hour drive each way. Amtrak is not much faster at 2-1/2 hours.

Imagine the insanity of spending 25-30 hours a week just commuting.

I have family that deals with a 30-minute drive, to get on a 1:15 train ride, to get on a 15 minute subway ride in order to commute. The price of a McMansion + some land, I guess.

That's 2 hours of seamless travel, but you obviously have to wait a few minutes for the train/subway... A direct Amtrack into NYC might be more relaxing, you can sleep!

[csedwards72]

Ahh that would explain it. I hope it isn't for commuting purposes however.

Some people do commute from Allentown; there are direct bus lines to the Port Authority bus terminal on the west side of Manhattan. There was a big article about this in the New York Times I think earlier this year.

I hope people in Charlotte wake up and see the impact of massive population growth on commutes. The NYC area is relatively dense but there are just so many millions of people living there that to get cheap but decent real estate means very long commutes. As the NY Times article points out, people moving to Pennsylvania despite jobs in Manhattan aren't doing so to get flashy McMansions; they are doing so because they don't earn much money and the low-income areas in NYC are just too rough for them. It is really not a pleasant story.

I have worked with people (when I worked in NYC) who commuted from Philadelphia on Amtrak. People will put up with lots of stuff there; the Philadelphia commuters are mainly high-income couples who both have high-powered jobs. The Allentown commuters are low-income commuters who want to escape the 'hood.

[EastSideResider]

It kinda sounds likes these rich people from the north are taking advantage of the poor south, eh? haha....

[Jerseyman4]

The eastern PA counties that provide a direct connection to NYC (that being I-78 and I-80) are seeing so much growth, its insane! Not just there but people are not mentioning too much about south jersey in places like northern Burlington County, extreme southern Ocean County and northeastern Atlantic County. Yea, its NJ and its expensive in general but the cost of living in some south jersey areas, the cost of living is half of what central and north jersey is! I guess when New Yorkers are used to commuting on the Long Island Expressway into the midtown tunnel into the city by waiting and waiting and WAITING and WAITING in endless congestion getting into the city or even before they get near the Brooklyn-Queens expressway do not mind driving long distances and then waiting 25-40 minutes at the Lincoln or Holland Tunnels. What will also likely spur up additional exburb sprawl is the new Exit 15X off the Turnpike eastern spur for people to park and ride and then hop on a bus or train right into the city.

I sure hope Charlotte does not become this way someday. I dont want to see exburbs in Tennesee or Virginia

[NcSc74]

The eastern PA counties that provide a direct connection to NYC (that being I-78 and I-80) are seeing so much growth, its insane! Not just there but people are not mentioning too much about south jersey in places like northern Burlington County, extreme southern Ocean County and northeastern Atlantic County. Yea, its NJ and its expensive in general but the cost of living in some south jersey areas, the cost of living is half of what central and north jersey is! I guess when New Yorkers are used to commuting on the Long Island Expressway into the midtown tunnel into the city by waiting and waiting and WAITING and WAITING in endless congestion getting into the city or even before they get near the Brooklyn-Queens expressway do not mind driving long distances and then waiting 25-40 minutes at the Lincoln or Holland Tunnels. What will also likely spur up additional exburb sprawl is the new Exit 15X off the Turnpike eastern spur for people to park and ride and then hop on a bus or train right into the city.

I sure hope Charlotte does not become this way someday. I dont want to see exburbs in Tennesee or Virginia

I would bet on exurbs in SC before the other two. However I think the real growth will be the 85 corridor from Durham to Charlotte. Some parts have continuous developments already. It is not as dense as from say New Brunswick to the George Washington or NOVA to the north of B-more but a few decades it will be that way. I used to drive 95 and the turnpkike quite often when I was "dating" my future wife who is from Orange NJ.

[BRONX BOY]

Some people do commute from Allentown; there are direct bus lines to the Port Authority bus terminal on the west side of Manhattan. There was a big article about this in the New York Times I think earlier this year.

I hope people in Charlotte wake up and see the impact of massive population growth on commutes. The NYC area is relatively dense but there are just so many millions of people living there that to get cheap but decent real estate means very long commutes. As the NY Times article points out, people moving to Pennsylvania despite jobs in Manhattan aren't doing so to get flashy McMansions; they are doing so because they don't earn much money and the low-income areas in NYC are just too rough for them. It is really not a pleasant story.

I have worked with people (when I worked in NYC) who commuted from Philadelphia on Amtrak. People will put up with lots of stuff there; the Philadelphia commuters are mainly high-income couples who both have high-powered jobs. The Allentown commuters are low-income commuters who want to escape the 'hood.

My former boss @ Sony Music commutes everyday from suburban Philadelphia..... I use to think it was INSANE!!! Until I saw his house. But even with a beautiful house and all, that's still alot of daily commuting. Another sad note is he has a family...I used to tease him and say that he was missing his kids growing up, because by the time he would get home from work, they were already in bed,and before the awoke in the morning, he was already making his way to the train station.To catch 2 trains to get to NYC (Septa / NJ Transit) And our office hours then were 9:30 - 7:00, and GOD forbid if there was an industry event after work that he "HAD" to attend.

[Jerseyman4]

My former boss @ Sony Music commutes everyday from suburban Philadelphia..... I use to think it was INSANE!!! Until I saw his house. But even with a beautiful house and all, that's still alot of daily commuting. Another sad note is he has a family...I used to tease him and say that he was missing his kids growing up, because by the time he would get home from work, they were already in bed,and before the awoke in the morning, he was already making his way to the train station.To catch 2 trains to get to NYC (Septa / NJ Transit) And our office hours then were 9:30 - 7:00, and GOD forbid if there was an industry event after work that he "HAD" to attend.

Does not suprise me in suburban Bucks County that people are commuting from there! From the Falls Township website, italized below proves what you said about long distance commuters from the area:

Falls Township at this time became a predominantly residential commuter community, a suburb of Philadelphia and Trenton, and an exurb of New York City......Today, with the "suburbanization of business" in the New York and Philadelphia metropolitan area, Falls Township is slowly shedding its label as a suburban community and will once again be characterized as self-sufficient.