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Fifth Third Ballpark Enhancements


GRDadof3

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I think that Gerry Ford is going to be buried in Ann Arbor

I don't think that's true. I'll have to check, but my "source" (aka immediate family member) was on what affectionately became known as the "Burry Gerry" planning board while in the Nat'l Guard (recently retired).. I'll have to check what the plan calls for.. :offtopic:

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Any discussion about Gerald Ford ends up talking about him dying.

Yah, but my pictures were of a baseball stadium :rofl:

I didn't get pictures of what they are doing to the bleacher section, but you can see pictures on the Whitecaps website.

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" Michigan's only president, Gerald R. Ford, was born in Nebraska and has spent much of his long retirement in California, but will be buried in Grand Rapids, the city he called home for decades.

"It's where he spent a vast majority of his time growing up," said Jim Kratsas, deputy director of the Gerald R. Ford Museum in Grand Rapids. "There is a burial site here at the museum.""

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...22/ai_n10935953

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When I first moved to Grand Rapids, I worked on the very tail end of this project's architecture. Subsequently, I worked on other minor league stadiums throughout the midwest and California. At many times we attempted to make something better than 5/3, but were shot down by the owner of our company (because it did not look enough like one of our buildings) and by the clients, who were always concerned with cost.

At this time, no one was sure that the midwest league would ever enjoy the success that it has. It was a league that was in decline in places like Iowa and Wisconsin. It has been rejuvinated over the last 10 years. But the investors were concerned about how it was going to do, so they counted pennies at every juncture.

I agree with many posts here regarding the site of this park. It would be wonderful if it had been in the city. Gary, Indiana and Toledo, Ohio have great ballparks in their downtowns, both recently constructed. Unfortunately, we are now stuck with it where it is. It is probably never going to move.

As far as the vinyl siding is concerned, it has always been a problem on this building. It looks cheap, it is cheap and the detail of it is atrocious. This looks like a modular building that was just thrown up. The overall material of this building is just bad, all the way around.

This is typical of vinyl siding. It is a material that is used way too much and not well. I have yet to see it detailed with any conviction, whether it is on a McHouse or a McStripMall.

Vinyl siding is a material that is made to look like something that it is not (wood), and this alone should be cause for concern when putting a building up. It is nearly impossible to detail it so that it looks like wood, particularly at window jamb casing, head casing and sills. Add in the cheap vinyl windows and you have a cartoon of a house.

Hardi-Plank or other cement board sidings are a far superior alternative to wood.

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" Michigan's only president, Gerald R. Ford, was born in Nebraska and has spent much of his long retirement in California, but will be buried in Grand Rapids, the city he called home for decades.

"It's where he spent a vast majority of his time growing up," said Jim Kratsas, deputy director of the Gerald R. Ford Museum in Grand Rapids. "There is a burial site here at the museum.""

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...22/ai_n10935953

I was going to say, I was under the impression that he was going to be buried in Grand Rapids. After Reagan passed one of the news stations did a segment on being prepared for the inevitable and ensuring that spot by the museum was properly taken care of(as well as the city around it).

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When I first moved to Grand Rapids, I worked on the very tail end of this project's architecture. Subsequently, I worked on other minor league stadiums throughout the midwest and California. At many times we attempted to make something better than 5/3, but were shot down by the owner of our company (because it did not look enough like one of our buildings) and by the clients, who were always concerned with cost.

At this time, no one was sure that the midwest league would ever enjoy the success that it has. It was a league that was in decline in places like Iowa and Wisconsin. It has been rejuvinated over the last 10 years. But the investors were concerned about how it was going to do, so they counted pennies at every juncture.

I agree with many posts here regarding the site of this park. It would be wonderful if it had been in the city. Gary, Indiana and Toledo, Ohio have great ballparks in their downtowns, both recently constructed. Unfortunately, we are now stuck with it where it is. It is probably never going to move.

As far as the vinyl siding is concerned, it has always been a problem on this building. It looks cheap, it is cheap and the detail of it is atrocious. This looks like a modular building that was just thrown up. The overall material of this building is just bad, all the way around.

This is typical of vinyl siding. It is a material that is used way too much and not well. I have yet to see it detailed with any conviction, whether it is on a McHouse or a McStripMall.

Vinyl siding is a material that is made to look like something that it is not (wood), and this alone should be cause for concern when putting a building up. It is nearly impossible to detail it so that it looks like wood, particularly at window jamb casing, head casing and sills. Add in the cheap vinyl windows and you have a cartoon of a house.

Hardi-Plank or other cement board sidings are a far superior alternative to wood.

How much more expensive per unit is Hardi-Plank or cement baord sidings than vinyl? Did they just cut a few pennies or were the savings really significant?

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How much more expensive per unit is Hardi-Plank or cement baord sidings than vinyl? Did they just cut a few pennies or were the savings really significant?

Hardi is quite a bit more then vinyl.

Everyone is questioning why they used vinyl siding at the park. Have you been to a game while it was going on? About 6 times a game a batter will foul a ball up backwards and hit the press boxes that are covered in vinyl. That stuff takes a hell of a beating out there. A hard material would tend to be more brittle and would be more susceptible to damage. Thus more costly and difficult to do repairs and replacements.

The vinyl is a resilient material that bounces back a bit when it gets hit by a ball. Don't get me wrong, I hate vinyl siding. I hate vinyl in general it is one of the most toxic building materials that we build with. But if I had to specify its use anywhere, I probably would choose the same thing at the park.

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I would agree with Nitro that one of the considerations for material selection was the foul balls hitting the building. That was also a consideration for window selection.

When the ballpark was constructed, I would guess that Hardi Plank was either not readily available in the GR market or not available at all. I am unsure of its origin, but 12 years ago, I can not remember it being available. In fact, as recently as about 5 years ago, there were very, very few qualified installers in the area.

But in my opinion, that is really not the point.

A baseball stadium is a building type in and of itself. It can most closely be related to a civic structure in that it should have a relative permanence and should be constructed and sited in a way that gives it significance to the community. The original portion of the GR Public Library, the Hastings Courthouse, the old GR City Hall all are somewhat similar, in their general building typology. Additionally, Ebbets Field and Shibe Park (both the victims of "progress"), and even the Toledo Mud Hens new stadium are responsive to the public realm and of civic definition.

These buildings should be dignified and constructed in such a way that they convey civic pride, community importance, quality and the perception of an institution which is going to be around for many generations.

5/3 does not do this. It is built, particularly at its upper levels, like a cheap spec house. Its long term durability is evident in the patchwork of siding that has already been added. I see no civic pride represented in this building. It will not last. It has no permanence.

It is only a device to watch a baseball game, no different than a TV. There is no dignity for the public realm, only an internalized system with almost total disregard to definition of the public realm.

As an institution to our community, there were certainly other options for the overall materiality of this building. Brick comes to mind. But there were other options. How were tradtional stadiums built, like Ebbets Field, the Polo Grounds or Tiger Stadium. They were obviously durable and not sheathed in plastic.

Places like Tiger Stadium were viable for over 100 years, I doubt that 5/3 will be.

In general, we do not build for this condition of permanence in this country. We do not build for future generations. We build for the term of the mortgage. That is a problem.

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<snip>

In general, we do not build for this condition of permanence in this country. We do not build for future generations. We build for the term of the mortgage. That is a problem.

I think some of the larger stadiums, like those for professional leagues are built to stand for a century or more, the need for a single A minor league stadium to be this permanent is foolhardy at best. Most minor league teams flutter about the country moving from small town to small town.

It isn't until you get to AAA minor leagues that the sense of permanence is there. Teams like Toledo, and Indianapolis, and Las Vegas, etc. aren't going anywhere unless one of them decides to go Professional MLB baseball.

Then that professional club usually moves its AAA team to a nearby city thats large enough to handle it (If Indianapolis got a professional MLB team for example, the AAA team might decide to locate in Grand Rapids, AA in Akron, and A in South Bend, etc. Detroit has their teams as close to Detroit as possible, Single A being in West MI, AA in Erie (although they might move to Ann Arbor), and AAA in Toledo.)

Permanence is only needed when something that will be permanent is put in its place :P I don't think we will see the Whitecaps in West Michigan much longer, either Grand Rapids will get a AAA team from a new MLB team moving nearby, or it will eventually move, my guess would be Kzoo.

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I think that is the problem with convention.

If the whitecaps move, then what? A suburban ruin decaying before our eyes? Maybe the Gus Macker out in the parking lot once a year, along with some travel trailer shows and maybe a carnival or two.

There is no excuse not to begin to build better buildings, in both material and design. We are rumored to be the wealthiest nation on earth, yet we have forgotten how to build or have just decided that placemaking does not matter.

At one of my former employers, we toured many minor league facilities throughout the midwest and California. A majority of these were originally built for teams in the low minors, in places like Akron, San Lius Obispo and Santa Maria. There were a lot of dives, buildings that would make today's Tiger Stadium look well maintained. But, they all had one thing in common, they were built by people who cared about the civic realm and as a result they had stood for generations. They were permanent structures in every sense of the word, and while they were presently under-used or not used at all, they were still there, after sometimes 50+ years.

It made sense to build with relative permanence, when our national wealth was arguably a fraction of what it is today? But today, with all the perceived wealth, it does not make sense? I do not get it. And it is truly disappointing.

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I think some of the larger stadiums, like those for professional leagues are built to stand for a century or more, the need for a single A minor league stadium to be this permanent is foolhardy at best. Most minor league teams flutter about the country moving from small town to small town.

It isn't until you get to AAA minor leagues that the sense of permanence is there. Teams like Toledo, and Indianapolis, and Las Vegas, etc. aren't going anywhere unless one of them decides to go Professional MLB baseball.

Then that professional club usually moves its AAA team to a nearby city thats large enough to handle it (If Indianapolis got a professional MLB team for example, the AAA team might decide to locate in Grand Rapids, AA in Akron, and A in South Bend, etc. Detroit has their teams as close to Detroit as possible, Single A being in West MI, AA in Erie (although they might move to Ann Arbor), and AAA in Toledo.)

Permanence is only needed when something that will be permanent is put in its place :P I don't think we will see the Whitecaps in West Michigan much longer, either Grand Rapids will get a AAA team from a new MLB team moving nearby, or it will eventually move, my guess would be Kzoo.

I am doing some work for the Whitecaps right now and according to Lew Chamberlain, there is no plans for that in the future. The prospect of a AAA team is an option they have explored but they would have to purchase an exhisting team and bring it here. AA is where all of the good prospects are and this is much more likely.

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I am doing some work for the Whitecaps right now and according to Lew Chamberlain, there is no plans for that in the future. The prospect of a AAA team is an option they have explored but they would have to purchase an exhisting team and bring it here. AA is where all of the good prospects are and this is much more likely.

The only way GR gets an AAA team in my example is if MLB expands into a city like Indianapolis, or some other Midwest city, who would then need to set-up its Minor league system. I know there is no way an existing AAA team would move here. AA is more likely, but if memory serves me right, some people in AA were grumbling about the tigers possibly wanting to move the Erie Seawolves to Ann Arbor, because it would be too far away from existing AA teams in its division.

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Is Indy the nearest AAA team? whos in their league. It seems like some of the midwest league cities like GR, Fort Wayne and Lansing should have at least AA if not AAA teams and the A teams should be in places like Erie and Beloit.

Another thing that disapointed me when they built the park was the fact that there is no community character of it. The location is not bad for being outside of DT but it would have been nice if it faced the outfield at the river and had some scenery and landscaping as well as brick siding or wood or something other than viny

Hopefully a AAA team moves here and forces a new stadium. Then they tear down the existing one stadium and rebuild it with the river in the background like the cove at the giants stadium, nice brick and glass looking, 20,000 seats and named after meijer or something else local and not 5/3 or alticor.

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Is Indy the nearest AAA team? whos in their league. It seems like some of the midwest league cities like GR, Fort Wayne and Lansing should have at least AA if not AAA teams and the A teams should be in places like Erie and Beloit.

Another thing that disapointed me when they built the park was the fact that there is no community character of it. The location is not bad for being outside of DT but it would have been nice if it faced the outfield at the river and had some scenery and landscaping as well as brick siding or wood or something other than viny

Hopefully a AAA team moves here and forces a new stadium. Then they tear down the existing one stadium and rebuild it with the river in the background like the cove at the giants stadium, nice brick and glass looking, 20,000 seats and named after meijer or something else local and not 5/3 or alticor.

I'd be happy calling ir River Grand Stadium :lol:

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They actually wanted it downtown, but at the time all of the properties that were large enough were in limbo for Van Andel, after the walker deal and downtown fell through, they decided to finance on their own in comstock park. Downtown ballpark would be awesome though.

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