Spartanburg is a suburb...

[GvilleSC]

This has been most interesting to follow.

I have a question. If Spartanburg's growth caught up to Greenville's and passed it and the two cities/counties were of pretty much equal size, then do you think that it could steal Greenville's thunder or just become a subburb as more people grow in that direction from Greenville...? I know that Woodruff Rd development is reaching farther and farther into Spartanburg County and then there's Greer... So, I guess what i'm asking is, Will Spartanburg's growth be because of Spartanburg and make it THE city in the upstate OR is the growth going to be because of Greenville and keep it at GSP?

[Spartan]

While I wouldn't mind seeing Spartanburg as the primary city in the Upstate, I know that is unlikely. That said, Spartanburg was one the primary city in the Upstate... but then, so was Gaffney before that. So you can never be too sure about these things.

Spartanburg may become more connected with Greenville, but it will not become any more of a suburb than Durham or Fort Worth. I believe that Greenville and Spartanburg's growth and furture are tried to each other though. The success of one will be the success of the other. And as time passes this will become only more true.

So will Spartanburg steal Geenville's thunder? Probably not. Though it would be kinds cool to see that happen.

[willum]

glendale was at one point the second largest town in the upstate....

Spartanburg and Greenville are so alike yet so different. Greer i think will play a big part, and Spartanburg could outgrow gville. not real likely, spartanburg is already growing faster than gville (hard to believe huh) its just that greenville is growing more at the center and sptbg, with its larger county area, is growing more in outer areas like boiling springs

[willum]

one interesting thing however is how greenville ppl like to disassociate things with spartanburg. GSP is not in greenville, yet many call it gville int'l airport. bmw is not in gville, but they like to claim it too. and most recently USC upstate is not even close to being in gville, yet they advertise it as a gville college. which is a big reason i hate that they changed the name from USCS (which i still call it) to upstate. i know it was for money reasons.

In my opinion GSP will grow as one area in a lot of respects, and to outsiders, yet they will continue to be two distinct places. spartanburg and spartans are definitely not the same as greenville and greenies....

[GvilleSC]

one interesting thing however is how greenville ppl like to disassociate things with spartanburg. GSP is not in greenville, yet many call it gville int'l airport. bmw is not in gville, but they like to claim it too. and most recently USC upstate is not even close to being in gville, yet they advertise it as a gville college. which is a big reason i hate that they changed the name from USCS (which i still call it) to upstate. i know it was for money reasons.

In my opinion GSP will grow as one area in a lot of respects, and to outsiders, yet they will continue to be two distinct places. spartanburg and spartans are definitely not the same as greenville and greenies....

Well, technically, BMW is in Spartanburg county, but it's in Greer-- And Greer is more so a subburb of Greenville than Spartanburg. BMW's Homecoming has events in Downtown Greenville. I've never heard of people refer to the airport as Greenville's-- except for here at Clemson, but I'd say that's because you only go through Greenville to get there and they are people from distant places.

[Spartan]

glendale was at one point the second largest town in the upstate....

Spartanburg and Greenville are so alike yet so different. Greer i think will play a big part, and Spartanburg could outgrow gville. not real likely, spartanburg is already growing faster than gville (hard to believe huh) its just that greenville is growing more at the center and sptbg, with its larger county area, is growing more in outer areas like boiling springs

Glendale? Wow. I find that hard to believe (not that I dont). That was probably back in the Bivingsville days though.

Spartanburg is growing faster as a percentage, but in terms of sheer numbers, Greenville has the upper hand. The fastest growing region in the Upstate is the area of Greenville County south of I-85 and east of I-385 into Spartanburg County. Basily from Mauldin/Simpsonville 296 to the Reidville area centering around Five Forks.

Spartanburg's ares of high growth are mainly in the Boiling Springs area, and towards Duncan and also Roebuck. Boiling Springs is approaching the growt in the FIve Forks area, but its not at that level yet. This is of course baces on 2000 data, and this could very well change.

Alot of what you are seeing is Greenville growing up. Greenville has reached a stage where travel times and the spread/sprawl of the city have forced some density into the area.

Spartanburg will hit that point one day. But as it stands, you can still get from the communties around town like Boiling SPrings, Pacolet in 30 mins from downtown, except during rush hour. Until it becomes more practical to have more density in Spartanburg you won't see that type of development. There has to be more to living downtown or even near downtown that it just being a 'cool place.'

Well, technically, BMW is in Spartanburg county, but it's in Greer-- And Greer is more so a subburb of Greenville than Spartanburg. BMW's Homecoming has events in Downtown Greenville. I've never heard of people refer to the airport as Greenville's-- except for here at Clemson, but I'd say that's because you only go through Greenville to get there and they are people from distant places.

Ah that good ol' Clemson ignorance (just kidding) Seriously though, I have encountered that on a regular basis here. I think most people in the rest of the Upstate call it GSP.

[krazeeboi]

After thinking about it, I actually think that it could be likely that Spartanburg could at least catch up to Greenville in the near future (say, about 30-50 years). Spartanburg has just as much as Greenville to work with; as we've discussed, both the BMW facility and GSP Int'l Airport are located within Spartanburg County, the I-85/I-26 junction, corporate headquarters (Denny's, Extended Stay America, QS/1), and a sizable college population. All Spartanburg really lacks is the momentum that Greenville has. Granted, Spartanburg won't presently be able to compete on some levels, which has only been true until rather recently, but in other areas, the city does have advantages.

[emo]

"So, I guess what i'm asking is, Will Spartanburg's growth be because of Spartanburg and make it THE city in the upstate OR is the growth going to be because of Greenville and keep it at GSP?"

In response to this, I think that a significant amount of Greenville's growth has to be credited to Spartanburg obtaining the BMW facility. In Greenville's timeline of growth, which I saw printed somewhere, there is a major mark where BMW moved in. They have written, "BMW moves to Greenville." I know that the facility is in Greer and that a lot of people who work there live in Greenville, but it seems like people from Greenville never give any credit to Spartanburg. That's what irritates me. Since I've been in school, any kid I meet from Greenville will swear to me that both the airport and BMW are in Greenville. So I say that Greenville has Sparkle City to thank.

I also believe that it is very feasible that Spartanburg could catch up to Greenville. I don't think that Spartanburg will ever be a suburb to Greenville b/c Spartanburg has so many people who both live and work here. I have always thought of Greenville as just a slightly bigger Spartanburg, but hopefully they will both develop with their own uniqueness. As for Greer, I think that it will continue to grow but I don't think that it will ever be as large as Greenville or Spartanburg. I think that most likely it will become a significant suburb to both, kind of like a nice buffer zone in between the two.

[gs3]

An interesting fact here concerning the reason most Greenvillians call BMW there own. I did a Mapquest mileage check. From Main Street in downtown Greenville to BMW at Highway 101 is 15 miles. From Main Street in downtown Spartanburg to BMW at Highway 101 is 24 miles. BMW may be in Spartanburg County, but is much closer to the center of Greenville (city) than Spartanburg (city) by almost 10 miles. Also considering Greenville sprawls to the east and meets up with burb Greer, it's just one continuing urban area.

Not being from SC, I've never really paid any attention to county lines, or city boundaries. They just don't mean much. I view Upstate as one large metro with Greenville being the center of that metro.

Another thing to consider on BMW, Greenville can now actually and factually claim BMW as the new BMW research center in ICAR is within both Greenville County and Greenville City limits. If limits mean anything to you.

[Spartan]

Right, but not the HQ

In the grand scheme of htings, it doesn't matter that Greenville claims BMW becuase Greenville benefits from the jobs and satellite companies just as much as Spartanburg. BMW is a boon to the entire region, not just one county. What irks me is that many times, people don't seem to recognize that its in Spartanburg County. And thats really all I'm looking for

[goodbye]

I see Spartanburg receiving as much credit as it should overall. Naturally, it is not going to be noticed as much as Greenville, because Greenville is considerably larger overall. I understand the optimism of residents in Spartanburg (I applaud that), but when you take a step back to look at the whole picture, it becomes clear why people feel intimidated by the Greenville comparison.

[willum]

Glendale? Wow. I find that hard to believe (not that I dont). That was probably back in the Bivingsville days though.

Glendale Mill was the largest mill in the Southeast at one point, although not for very long. But back in the mill days (from what years i'm not certain) gaffney was the largest city and Glendale was #2... it probably was back when it was bivingsville with the lake an the trolly and everything ... It's interesting how growth changed and became more centered on the interstate system when that was put in place (it actually hasnt been THAT long ago considering the age of our area) and then again when textile industry started moving overseas...

[motonenterprises]

Being from Greenwood, I also see this as just one big metro area with Greenville being somewhat the center of attention. Both cities are benefiting greatly from BMW being in the area regardless of what county it is in or who claims it. I disagree with Spartanburg feeling only slightly smaller than Greenville though, I can definetly feel the difference and the urban area population shows it. I don't think Spartanburg is missing much though as far as shopping options go.

[willum]

i would never trade anything in greenville if it meant having a woodruff rd... oh wait, thats what reidville rd is becoming....

[motonenterprises]

Yeah, Woodruff Rd. is awful right now and is getting worse. Reidville Rd is getting busy too.

[Spartan]

but Reidville Rd will soon be a 7 lane monstrocity, so it should be able to carry a lot more traffic than Woodruff... for better or for worse.

Spartanburg was historically centered around the rail system, not the interstate system- hence the nickname "Hub City." I take issue wih Glendale being one of the largest communities in terms of population because I know Spartanburg to be settled with a larger population sooner than Glendale. I am not certain what was there before the mill village was created, but I think it is safe to say not much. Glendale has been a settled site for much longer than Spartanburg though- a skirmish with the British took place near the area during the Revolution.

[idunno]

i would never trade anything in greenville if it meant having a woodruff rd... oh wait, thats what reidville rd is becoming....

Yeah, Woodruff Rd. is awful right now and is getting worse. Reidville Rd is getting busy too.

Is Reidville/John B. White, Sr. Blvd. becoming that busy?? I don't remember it being anything like Woodruff Road... Of course, it's been a while since I've been down either of those streets.

[goodbye]

Not even close! It will take a whole lot more development along Reidville Rd. to bring that much traffic.

[willum]

not for as long of a stretch, and i was exaggerating a bit, but you drive from 295 intersection to winn-dixie and good luck... especially if you're trying to turn from blackstock to reidville towards spartanburg, you'll be there a LONG while

[Spartan]

The point is that it is has noticably worse- even from only a few years ago, however with the additional lanes there will be a noticable decrease in congestion for several years.

[idunno]

The point is that it is has noticably worse- even from only a few years ago, however with the additional lanes there will be a noticable decrease in congestion for several years.

Point taken

[hub-city]

An interesting fact here concerning the reason most Greenvillians call BMW there own. I did a Mapquest mileage check. From Main Street in downtown Greenville to BMW at Highway 101 is 15 miles. From Main Street in downtown Spartanburg to BMW at Highway 101 is 24 miles. BMW may be in Spartanburg County, but is much closer to the center of Greenville (city) than Spartanburg (city) by almost 10 miles. Also considering Greenville sprawls to the east and meets up with burb Greer, it's just one continuing urban area.

Not being from SC, I've never really paid any attention to county lines, or city boundaries. They just don't mean much. I view Upstate as one large metro with Greenville being the center of that metro.

Another thing to consider on BMW, Greenville can now actually and factually claim BMW as the new BMW research center in ICAR is within both Greenville County and Greenville City limits. If limits mean anything to you.

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I've had to travel to Greenville several times over the past few weeks. Today, I was bored driving so I did a milage check. From the Bi-lo center to the Hwy 101 bridge is 15.2 miles. From the Hwy. 101 bridge to the clock tower in downtown Spartanburg is ................14.1 miles. This was a surprise to me, because I would have bet you that it was closer to Greenville. Granted, getting there from Greenville was faster because of 385. Taking Hwy. 29 to Spartanburg, you deal with red lights around Westgate etc...

Speaking of Hwy. 29; I think it is poised for some significant growth. Soon the landfill there will be at capacity and it looks like several developments are taking shape. Hawk Creek North, Spartan Exchange Village to name a couple. Also, if you look across the lake, you will see the steel structure of the headquarters for Upward International - a Christian sports program. Its going to be awesome looking over the lake.

[gs3]

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I've had to travel to Greenville several times over the past few weeks. Today, I was bored driving so I did a milage check. From the Bi-lo center to the Hwy 101 bridge is 15.2 miles. From the Hwy. 101 bridge to the clock tower in downtown Spartanburg is ................14.1 miles. This was a surprise to me, because I would have bet you that it was closer to Greenville. Granted, getting there from Greenville was faster because of 385. Taking Hwy. 29 to Spartanburg, you deal with red lights around Westgate etc...

Speaking of Hwy. 29; I think it is poised for some significant growth. Soon the landfill there will be at capacity and it looks like several developments are taking shape. Hawk Creek North, Spartan Exchange Village to name a couple. Also, if you look across the lake, you will see the steel structure of the headquarters for Upward International - a Christian sports program. Its going to be awesome looking over the lake.

Call Mapquest and tell they are wrong. I travel alot and have noticed they tend to be wrong often.

[goodbye]

The most common factor in the debate over giving BMW Manufacturing a home city is the actual urban/suburban relation to the plant. There can be absolutely no doubt at this point in time Greenville's suburban growth reaches much closer than Spartanburg's, but Greer is clearly the closest city. It is going to continue to be this way until Spartanburg sprawls more solidly out to hwy 290 and beyond. Currently, only the city of Duncan can honestly claim that intersection at I-85.

[teshadoh]

The BMW's plant address is in a Spartanburg zip code, which of course is in Spartanburg Co. So why should it have a Greenville address?

Also - regarding the Greenville centric notion of the Upstate - though Greenville is now a more dominating city than Spartanburg, in the past the two cities were considered more 'equal'. So old habits are hard to break. Not to mention the urban areas between the two aren't that significant - there is only a few 100,000 population difference between the two.

Back to the thread title - Spartanburg is definitely not a suburb. Greenville does have greater economic prominance over Spartanburg, but it is not overwhelming enough.