Columbia Economic Notes

[CorgiMatt]

Concerning population issues there is no probability of how the Columbia population will grow. During one decade the population increased by 20,000. Charlotte's population increased by 40,000 between 2000 and 2005. Between the years of 1970 and 1980 the Atlanta population decreased by 72,000 people. Columbia seems to have a population more than 121,000. I guess the college populations of USC, Benedict, Allen, Midlands Tech, and commuters contribute to this point of view. Lets make Columbia the best it can be.

No one wants Columbia's population to be 121,000 + (preferably at least 125,000) right now more than I do, but according to the S.C. Budget and Control Board's latest statistics (Google south carolina budget and control.), which are one in the same with the U.S. Census Bureau's latest statistics, the city's population was only 116,3?? as of 7/1/04. Tell me where I can go to see reliable statistics that show the city's population was 121,000+ as of 7/1/05. Is that even a published figure yet? According to the Census Bureau's statistics, the city's population went up some after Census 2000's 116,278 figure, but then back down by about 600 residents between 7/1/03 and 7/1/04, from 116,9?? to 116,3??. Not that I believe they know without going house to house for a head count, but I would love to see with my own eyes the 121,000 to 125,000 figure you guys keep posting on here. Where can I see it? What I do see on the Budget and Control Board's website is that the Columbia MSA grew by 2.6% between 2000 and 2002 (And this had nothing to do with the four counties that were added to the MSA after 2000.) compared to the Charleston-North Charleston's MSA increase of 2.5%, and that Columbia's has about 100,000 more people than Charleston-North Charleston's. But I am prepared to concede that unless Columbia really is packing new residents into the incorporated city limits, and unless all the planned downtown housing is in place and lived in by 2010, that Charleston will overtake Columbia as the state's largest municipality. Columbia has been annexing, and the new annexation chief is really just now getting cranked up with his efforts, but fear Charleston. While it will be just a technicality to have Charleston overtake Columbia as the state's largest city, there is some Columbia pride to be lost if it turns out that the Census Bureau's Columbia stats are correct through 7/1/2004, that the perceived turnaround since then is only in Columbia city leaders' heads, and Charleston keeps adding residents the way they have been through massive annexations as the peninsula continues to lose full-time residents or stabilizes. I do think an annexation of Olympia is in the cards (just speculation), and that one move would put a hurtin' on Charleston, but still fear Charleston. I look at it this way. When I look up Columbia in World Book Encyclopedia (Yes, I know it's sixth-grade reading.), it says Columbia is the capital of South Carolina and the state's largest city. If Charleston overtakes Columbia, Columbia's entry will be changed to read "the capital of South Carolina and the state's second largest city. Only Charleston is larger." That's the way they word it. I'm preparing for that to happen. The agency I work for always has openings in Charleston. Would I want to live in the largest city or the largest MSA in South Carolina, if size were my sole criterion for which city I chose to live in in the Palmetto State?

[CorgiMatt]

USC's website says that on March 2nd they received approval for bachelors', masters' and PhD degrees in biomedical engineering. It mirrors a Clemson program, but a spokesman brings up the point that USC is the only school in the state that will have its students in that field working in an interdisciplinary way with a medical school, the USC School of Medicine.

Also, their website says they just got a grant for $800,000 for the establishment of a nanotechnology lab for the study of biomedical research in the area of tissue engineering, etc.

These are huge announcements for the local economy. Innovation, Innovista, inta da future.

[The_sandlapper]

Not so concerned if Columbia is the states 1st, 2nd, or 3rd municipality just want to see the city grow and live up to its potential. However in regard to the current day projected population of the city it has been posted in SC Metro Population Est thread post #60. That's the only source I have that verifies that number if that aint good enough then I don't know? Besides it's obvious that Charleston and its MSA is in the strongest position to take the lead. There isn't much that will stop the coast from growing.

Oh and that is great news for the university and the city. Again confirming how serious USC & Columbia are about taking the Midlands & the state to the next level!

Edited March 4, 2006 by The_sandlapper

[CorgiMatt]

I saw on the news last night that Hiller Hardware is closing its Lady Street store. It is now closed. But on the news report it said the building has been sold, at a handsome profit. Maybe the new owner will get out there and pull up the weeds from along the foundation. And maybe now that Hiller Hardware has consolidated into the Five Points store they can afford to replace the windows on the upper right side of their building the way they did years ago on the upper left hand side.

Not so concerned if Columbia is the states 1st, 2nd, or 3rd municipality just want to see the city grow and live up to its potential. However in regard to the current day projected population of the city it has been posted in SC population thread with a link to a source.

I checked that out, but it did not get me to that 121,000 population figure, only through 7/1/04.

[The_sandlapper]

Cori here is my source for that 121K number (Central SC Alliance) at the end of the page you will note where their source is from.

Edited March 4, 2006 by The_sandlapper

[waccamatt]

How is everyone doing. I'm new to this and I enjoyed reading through all 35 pages of this discussion. It is really beneficial and interesting. I learned alot and saw that many agreed with my hopes for the city of Columbia, SC.

I really felt that Interstate 126 should have went through Elmwood and connected to Highway 277. This would have provided commuters two ways to get from Downtown to Northeast area. Interstate 20 is way to packed. Hopefully the idea may be reconsidered or a new one will be established. I would also like to see another office building. I do feel that the city is doing well with the developments. Hopefully the new Walmart will increase business for the Bush River area but it will also increase traffic; which is already a battle at times.

I also feel that the city should consider anexing the northeast area. I live in this area and developments are popping up all over the place. I could see the city widening I-20 near the clemson road in order to make traffic run smoother. Right now it is only two lanes.

Too bad that they are probably going to demolish the Carolina Colesium. I graduated in that place. Hopefully something replaces it that is very nice.

I lived in this city ever since I was 5 and I rather be no other place. I am now in college in Rock Hill and the Metro Charlotte area is booming. Do you think counties like Newberry, Sumter, and Orangeburg will be added to the Columbia MSA?

Smith, welcome to UP. I can understand the desire of commuters to see I-126 and SC-277 hooked up, but it will never happen. Columbia is a VERY, VERY lucky city, in that the interstates were built around the city with feeder loops into, but not through Columbia. I don't know if a conscious movement back in the 50's and 60's caused this, but it has been to our city's great benefit. At first thought one might say, "why is it a benefit that interstates weren't built through the city; wouldn't this have brought more business into downtown Columbia?"

I used to be disappointed the interstates and other freeways didn't go through the center of the city, but as I've gotten older I can see the wisdom of this approach. The lack of in-town freeways saved the character of Columbia; it saved our neighborhoods. Look at many other cities like Richmond, Charlotte and Atlanta and you will see that many of their in-town neighborhoods were killed by the construction of freeways. In Columbia, the one place this happened was with 277. If you've ever wondered why so many pedestrians try to cross that freeway it is because it split neighborhoods in half. Back in the 70's, 277 was supposed to have been extended through Cottontown and Elmwood Park to connect with I-126 and eventually stretch along the Congaree down to I-77. Could you imagine downtown Columbia today with a freeway in place of 2 of our nicest in-town neighborhoods and replacing the following?

Riverfront Park

The State Museum

Canalside

The Kline Steel site development

The condo development across from the State Museum

The new USC Baseball Park

Granby Village and the Three Rivers Greenway

How would everyone like the Vista if a freeway ran through the middle of it?

[sonofaque86]

I'm sure Columbia is 121k+...ALSO...They are annexing alot in the Southeast, where a couple of thousand of people will live on 200 acres alone ,aslo have the bull street project that will add thousands of residents. Columbia's limits have also been extending into the Northeast area. We've been annexing alll the way in Pontiac/Elgin and off of Percival Rd. using Ft. Jackson (also using it off of Leesburg Rd.)...I'm sure the annexing cheif knows what he's doing. I'm sure it'll be 125k or more by 2010.

[Spartan]

Corgi, you are forgetting that both cities are annexing and growing. That 125 is not impossible. Those rankings are meaningless. Basicly you have to realize that a few thousand makes almost no noticable difference. The cities are essentially the same size as it is.

[803metlife]

No one wants Columbia's population to be 121,000 + (preferably at least 125,000) right now more than I do, but according to the S.C. Budget and Control Board's latest statistics (Google south carolina budget and control.), which are one in the same with the U.S. Census Bureau's latest statistics, the city's population was only 116,3?? as of 7/1/04. Tell me where I can go to see reliable statistics that show the city's population was 121,000+ as of 7/1/05. Is that even a published figure yet? According to the Census Bureau's statistics, the city's population went up some after Census 2000's 116,278 figure, but then back down by about 600 residents between 7/1/03 and 7/1/04, from 116,9?? to 116,3??. Not that I believe they know without going house to house for a head count, but I would love to see with my own eyes the 121,000 to 125,000 figure you guys keep posting on here. Where can I see it? What I do see on the Budget and Control Board's website is that the Columbia MSA grew by 2.6% between 2000 and 2002 (And this had nothing to do with the four counties that were added to the MSA after 2000.) compared to the Charleston-North Charleston's MSA increase of 2.5%, and that Columbia's has about 100,000 more people than Charleston-North Charleston's. But I am prepared to concede that unless Columbia really is packing new residents into the incorporated city limits, and unless all the planned downtown housing is in place and lived in by 2010, that Charleston will overtake Columbia as the state's largest municipality. Columbia has been annexing, and the new annexation chief is really just now getting cranked up with his efforts, but fear Charleston. While it will be just a technicality to have Charleston overtake Columbia as the state's largest city, there is some Columbia pride to be lost if it turns out that the Census Bureau's Columbia stats are correct through 7/1/2004, that the perceived turnaround since then is only in Columbia city leaders' heads, and Charleston keeps adding residents the way they have been through massive annexations as the peninsula continues to lose full-time residents or stabilizes. I do think an annexation of Olympia is in the cards (just speculation), and that one move would put a hurtin' on Charleston, but still fear Charleston. I look at it this way. When I look up Columbia in World Book Encyclopedia (Yes, I know it's sixth-grade reading.), it says Columbia is the capital of South Carolina and the state's largest city. If Charleston overtakes Columbia, Columbia's entry will be changed to read "the capital of South Carolina and the state's second largest city. Only Charleston is larger." That's the way they word it. I'm preparing for that to happen. The agency I work for always has openings in Charleston. Would I want to live in the largest city or the largest MSA in South Carolina, if size were my sole criterion for which city I chose to live in in the Palmetto State?

It's kind of hard to say that because there are so many areas in columbia that dont get counted in the census. Area like west cola, forest acres, arcadia ,etc. West cola is 2 miles from downtown and there counted by themselves. The numbers might give a false sense of how big the city really is. Plus we need some competition!! We have had the crown for too long!!!!

Edited March 5, 2006 by 803metlife

[sonofaque86]

Charleston just doesn't feel bigger than Columbia like Savannah doesn't feel bigger than Columbia yet it is...Even though it won't be in a couple of years because they've been losing population...But like you have Broad River Rd. area that is about 21k that doesn't even get counted and the city limits surround them...That's why in SC you gotta go by UA

[Spartan]

It's kind of hard to say that because there are so many areas in columbia that dont get counted in the census. Area like west cola, forest acres, arcadia ,etc. West cola is 2 miles from downtown and there counted by themselves. The numbers might give a false sense of how big the city really is. Plus we need some competition!! We have had the crown for too long!!!!

True, but Charleston has North Charleston and Mount Pleasant and all of those other cities in Berkeley and Dorchester Counties.

[CorgiMatt]

Corgi, you are forgetting that both cities are annexing and growing. That 125 is not impossible. Those rankings are meaningless. Basicly you have to realize that a few thousand makes almost no noticable difference. The cities are essentially the same size as it is.

I was only talking about the prestige that comes with being referred to as the state's largest city. I realize that city boundaries are arbitrary.

Not so concerned if Columbia is the states 1st, 2nd, or 3rd municipality just want to see the city grow and live up to its potential. However in regard to the current day projected population of the city it has been posted in SC Metro Population Est thread post #60. That's the only source I have that verifies that number if that aint good enough then I don't know? Besides it's obvious that Charleston and its MSA is in the strongest position to take the lead. There isn't much that will stop the coast from growing.

Actually the same statistics I was referring to (US Census Bureau) have the Columbia MSA increasing its lead over the Charleston-North Charleston MSA through 2030. And I believe it.

Oh and that is great news for the university and the city. Again confirming how serious USC & Columbia are about taking the Midlands & the state to the next level!

Not so concerned if Columbia is the states 1st, 2nd, or 3rd municipality just want to see the city grow and live up to its potential. However in regard to the current day projected population of the city it has been posted in SC Metro Population Est thread post #60. That's the only source I have that verifies that number if that aint good enough then I don't know? Besides it's obvious that Charleston and its MSA is in the strongest position to take the lead. There isn't much that will stop the coast from growing.

Oh and that is great news for the university and the city. Again confirming how serious USC & Columbia are about taking the Midlands & the state to the next level!

Actually, the same statistics I was referring to (US Census Bureau) has the Columbia MSA increasing its lead over the Charleston-North Charleston MSA through 2030. And I believe it.

[CorgiMatt]

Cori here is my source for that 121K number (Central SC Alliance) at the end of the page you will note where their source is from.

OK, I saw it. It said the sources are Census 2000 and Demographics.com. I have picked apart the census bureau's website, because I am always starved for the latest population figures (It's an obsession of mine.) and the most recent figure I get is from 7/1/04 and it says 116,3?? for the city of Columbia. I'm not sure how reliable Demographics.com is and what the census bureau told them different about 2004 than they put in their annual publication.

[Spartan]

OK, I saw it. It said the sources are Census 2000 and Demographics.com. I have picked apart the census bureau's website, because I am always starved for the latest population figures (It's an obsession of mine.) and the most recent figure I get is from 7/1/04 and it says 116,3?? for the city of Columbia. I'm not sure how reliable Demographics.com is and what the census bureau told them different about 2004 than they put in their annual publication.

I have not explored Demographics.com thoroughly because I always use the Census for that kind of information. However, I would assume that they get their info from the census. Most palces do.

[The_sandlapper]

Again it's not an absolute number it's an estimate so the cities municipal population could be anywhere from 115,000 to 125,000 as of 3/5/2006. I do know however census numbers tend to lean on the conservative side of the curve.

[waccamatt]

OK, to get our minds off splitting hairs on population figures, it looks like construction is about to begin on Rosewood Hills. The second picture shows the proximimity to the stadium with The Spur to the left of the stadium and Carolina Walk to the right. The last picture is a bonus: my favorite business sign in Columbia, the entire outside of the Voodoo Den.

[smithc57]

One more question about the population issue. Do you feel that businesses are attracted more to a large MSA or city proper population?

[waccamatt]

One more question about the population issue. Do you feel that businesses are attracted more to a large MSA or city proper population?

I'm sure they are smart enough to look at UA or MSA population.

[krazeeboi]

Welcome, smitchc57! I see we inhabit the same area.

As far as city/metro populations go, businesses are definitely more attracted to metro populations. SC's cities aren't the only cities to have relatively small cities for their metro areas. Hartford, CT has a municipal population about the same size as Columbia's and its metro is 1.1 million. Harrisburg, PA's population is about 50,000, while its metro population is ~650,000. Also, if Charleston does overtake Columbia in the next census (which it has a good chance of doing), I would view it more like a Memphis/Nashville situation in Tennessee, where Memphis has the larger city population, while Nashville has the larger metro population.

[smithc57]

Yea I can understand what you are saying. Atlanta is the 41rst largest city with a city proper population of 425,000 but has the ninth largerst MSA of 4.7 Million.

Is Columbia really annexing in Northeast and Southeast areas?

[CorgiMatt]

The State reports today in the "Columbia Business Journal" that Bad Ass Coffee is locating next to Quizno's on Harden Street in Five Points. It's a chain. They plan to open in Myrtle Beach and Charleston later this year as well.

[sonofaque86]

Yea I can understand what you are saying. Atlanta is the 41rst largest city with a city proper population of 425,000 but has the ninth largerst MSA of 4.7 Million.

Is Columbia really annexing in Northeast and Southeast areas?

more than 200 acres was annexed from Garners Ferry a while ago..But they do it more there because its less developed land...And they've been doing it off of Spears Creek Church Rd. and Clemson Rd. The public zoning hearing shows u some recent ones off spears creek church rd. and percival rd. Council Minutes

Edited March 6, 2006 by sonofaque86

[smithc57]

I think it would have been very beneficial for the city if USC would have allowed the Carolina Panthers to play their first season at William's Brice. Do you think Columbia will ever receive a professional sports team?

[waccamatt]

I think it would have been very beneficial for the city if USC would have allowed the Carolina Panthers to play their first season at William's Brice. Do you think Columbia will ever receive a professional sports team?

Yes, it would have been good publicity for the Panthers to play here and yes, someday, Columbia will have major league professional sports; it may not be in our lifetimes though.

[Spartan]

Columbia won't have one in our lifetime I'm sure. I think that USC (and collegiate sports in general) provides better football than the NFL.