Crabtree Valley Mall

[jlblaes]

Any more news on Crabtree? When is Lord and Taylor leaving?

I think a nice addition would be Dillard's; the closest one is at the Cary mall and Triangle Town Center. The area could certainly use one after the North Hills location closing.

If Crabtree replaces the Lord and Taylor spot with a Dillards then they will be very disapointed. They need something to distinguish themsleves like a Blomingdales (long shot), H&M (more resaonable possibility) or some other uniquity.

JB

[Damien]

It would be so great if H&M were to open a store here. I would rather see something like Macy's or Bloomindales go in at Crabtree so you could save H&M for a possible future downtown dept. store.

[DigitalSky]

If Federated still will own the L&T Spot, then that increases the possibility for Bloomingdales to come there right? ^Macy's is coming (Hecht's will become Macy's next year)

Edited December 12, 2005 by cantnot

[StevenRocks]

If Federated still will own the L&T Spot, then that increases the possibility for Bloomingdales to come there right? ^Macy's is coming (Hecht's will become Macy's next year)

Federated doesn't own Lord & Taylor's location at Crabtree. That's a leased loaction, and the lease runs out at the end of January. That doesn't mean that Bloomingdale's isn't coming, but it does make the possiblity more remote.

Concerning Dillard's: Dillard's would make a good fit for Crabtree in terms of completeness (all the other malls that matter in the Triangle except Southpoint and Northgate have it and it's popular) and in terms of keeping the space productive (minimal remodeling, meaning the space will be open sooner). Dillard's is stronger than its peers in family apparel and does a good presentation overall. But the problem comes in that while a lot of people shop at Dillard's, not many would choose Crabtree with a new Dillard's over other local malls.

I would hold out for a more glamourous tenant if I were Crabtree, but rather than let the space go dark for years, I'd sign them and give them a short lease.

Edited December 12, 2005 by StevenRocks

[avery]

What is H&M? I think that Crabtree does need another big name tenant that the Triangle (or Raleigh) doesn't have yet. I think that they need this to up its status since the new malls have been built.

Personally, I don't think that Belk did a very good job of remodeling their store. It is still far too cramped and has a very disorganized feel to it. My wife and I were there this weekend and we were not impressed. It seems like they would have undergone a little more of a facelift in order to solidify their spot as the top store at Crabtree. If Macy's redoes Hechts or a big name goes into the L&T spot, I think they may regret not doing a little more.

[Tayfromcarolina]

I say lure Neiman Marcus in and let that be that. With there Charlotte store now open it is time for The triangle to have our own NM. Or maybe a Parisian Dept. store.

[Rufus]

Parisian or Facconable would be great. They are both the "middle-class" upscale forms of Saks (Parisian) and Nordstrom (facconable). Instead of their discount stores like OFF 5th or Nordstrom Rac, these would be at the same level as a Macy's. Parisian has a store at Phipps Plaza in Atlanta, so there is name recognition.

[StevenRocks]

What is H&M? I think that Crabtree does need another big name tenant that the Triangle (or Raleigh) doesn't have yet. I think that they need this to up its status since the new malls have been built.

Personally, I don't think that Belk did a very good job of remodeling their store. It is still far too cramped and has a very disorganized feel to it. My wife and I were there this weekend and we were not impressed. It seems like they would have undergone a little more of a facelift in order to solidify their spot as the top store at Crabtree. If Macy's redoes Hechts or a big name goes into the L&T spot, I think they may regret not doing a little more.

H&M is a family apparel store in the vein of Gap but more fashion forward.

I agree, Hudson Belk Crabtree looks horrible and isn't shopper friendly. They need a remodel to fix the remodel.

I say lure Neiman Marcus in and let that be that. With there Charlotte store now open it is time for The triangle to have our own NM. Or maybe a Parisian Dept. store.

NM might be a more realistic catch, strangely enough. I'm not sure what Parisian's future looks like.

Edited December 12, 2005 by StevenRocks

[DigitalSky]

Parisian has always seemed wary about expanding into NC and now with a Columbia store closing it seems highly unlikely.

[Raleighsfinest]

What happened to the bloomingdales idea?

[StevenRocks]

What happened to the bloomingdales idea?

Still on the table, but nobody's talking yet. Stay tuned.

[Justin6882]

I went to the Parisian in Cincinnati and was not impressed...and I had actually never heard of it prior to seeing it there. I'd much rather get a NM or Bloomingdale's.

[StevenRocks]

I went to the Parisian in Cincinnati and was not impressed...and I had actually never heard of it prior to seeing it there. I'd much rather get a NM or Bloomingdale's.

Agreed.

[perrykat]

If they split up Lord and Taylor I wonder if they'll remodel the mall to go along with the new addition or will they try to match the addition with the mall?

Never heard of a mall that size having only 3 anchors! lol

[StevenRocks]

If they split up Lord and Taylor I wonder if they'll remodel the mall to go along with the new addition or will they try to match the addition with the mall?

Never heard of a mall that size having only 3 anchors! lol

They actually used to have only three big anchors at Crabtree, pre-Lord & Taylor.

I think they'll match the addition up to the rest of the mall, but you never know.

Edited December 17, 2005 by StevenRocks

[DigitalSky]

Yeah i would think it would match the mall

[dmccall]

Crabtree must really be in a rediscovery period. Large anchors are struggling nationally, so Crabtree probably feels that they shouldn't lean on them too heavily. The rumor of Sears pulling out of malls must keep them awake. But the lure of the state's first Bloomie's must also keep them awake. The new trend of urbanist outdoor areas is certainly something they'd like to address. Then Soleil comes along and completely rejuvenates the west side of the property. Meanwhile John Kane is boutiquing and pedestrianing them out the wazoo. Crabtree has some really big decisions to make here in the next year.

Personally, I think they should follow the "Kane" model of recreating themselves to a more urban, walkable setting, but with less of a high high high exclusive market. They have a natural body of water which they could either use or ignore. That will be interesting, too. Plus they have 6 main access points, most of them still immature. Kidd's Hill and the other areas south of the mall are ripe for a continuation of a minor urban zone. High density in that area would form a natural straigh line across inner north Raleigh for a suspended urban transit model later on, too. Kane has been fun to watch, but Crabtree's decisions will truly be fascinating.

[StevenRocks]

I think that's why they're seemingly moving slow on the renovation of the mall. There are a lot of variables, and they want to do whatever they do as well as possible.

Edited December 18, 2005 by StevenRocks

[NCMike1981]

I still think the interior of Crabtree has held up well....now Cary Towne Center on the other hand is screaming for a mall interior makeover...

Edited December 19, 2005 by NCMike1981

[orulz]

Yes, I think the interior at Crabtree still looks pretty classy. Particularly around Christmastime.

Now if they could do something about that exterior... (fortress of parking decks, etc.) P.F. Chang's and Cheesecake Factory are nice and all, but beyond that, the exterior isn't inviting at all.

[StevenRocks]

I still think the interior of Crabtree has held up well....now Cary Towne Center on the other hand is screaming for a mall interior makeover...

They just remodeled Cary Towne Center a couple years ago. It's never been an attractive mall

Yes, I think the interior at Crabtree still looks pretty classy. Particularly around Christmastime.

Now if they could do something about that exterior... (fortress of parking decks, etc.) P.F. Chang's and Cheesecake Factory are nice and all, but beyond that, the exterior isn't inviting at all.

Crabtree's definately got an interior focus. Hecht's and Sears look good, while Lord & Taylor's so corporate it could be anywhere. I used to like Hudson Belk's exterior too before they messed it up.

[perrykat]

When I lived in the Cary area, I NEVER liked that mall. The layout is HORRID! Too many diagonal wings that have dead ends. I probably got lost every time I went in there. The lighting and interior are bad, too.

[avery]

Yes, I think the interior at Crabtree still looks pretty classy. Particularly around Christmastime.

Now if they could do something about that exterior... (fortress of parking decks, etc.) P.F. Chang's and Cheesecake Factory are nice and all, but beyond that, the exterior isn't inviting at all.

I don't see how they can improve the exterior of Crabtree too much. I think Hechts and Sears look fine. The problem is mainly the parking garages. Yes, Belk could use a facelift. I also think the backside of the mall looks bad. The area where Panera Bread could be improved. Maybe they could paint that drab beige brick along the parking garage.

[Tayfromcarolina]

Yeah those garages definetly need some help. But I think all in all that Crabtree could still be "THE MALL" to visit in the triangle. They should continue luring the Exclusive Stores in the area. (That's what sets them apart from Southpoint and TTC). They should take a que from Southpark mall in Charlotte which still holding their own despite the addition of the new Northlake mall. They may try to get some outdoor type stores going on in the area where Toys R' Us and Barnes and Noble sit and redesign those stores to go with the rest. And for goodness sakes get Neimans as a regional draw.

[StevenRocks]

When I lived in the Cary area, I NEVER liked that mall. The layout is HORRID! Too many diagonal wings that have dead ends. I probably got lost every time I went in there. The lighting and interior are bad, too.

I agree with all your points. Cary Towne Center is a turkey.

I don't see how they can improve the exterior of Crabtree too much. I think Hechts and Sears look fine. The problem is mainly the parking garages. Yes, Belk could use a facelift. I also think the backside of the mall looks bad. The area where Panera Bread could be improved. Maybe they could paint that drab beige brick along the parking garage.

The exterior and parking garages could be livened up with some new cladding. There's a mall in Northern Viirginia that took its plain exterior walls and replaced them with faux storefronts. It's not incredible, but it looks a lot better.