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Crabtree Valley Mall


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A long-time employee confirmed with me today that Hudson Belk will indeed move its men's department to the L&T space. Sad that we couldn't attract a new tenant to this market. It is a strange space, though. :cry:
I'm not happy with this idea. Do you know if they're taking the whole space or just part?

Hopefully they'll only take the lower level and leave the upper level for specialty stores.

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She said she believes it is both levels. Now that would be a whopping men's department.

StevenRocks, do you know of any malls in the south that are expanding? Is it me or has brick and mortar retail gotten REALLY stale? We (America) had a slew of interesting new national stores expanding around 10 years ago. To me it started with Pottery Barn and ended precisely with J. Jill. I wonder if 9/11 had anything to do with this or if the homogenization of the department stores had something to do with this. The big companies gobbled each other up so much, and it's such an oligopoly, that consumers are just bored with the entire genre of shopping, it appears. Maybe its just part of the cycle like the early 80's saw.

Frankly, I can't sit here and think of any big national chains that we don't have here. It used to be easy to name 5.

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Old and new store concepts that have been expanding recently include Crate and Barrel, Apple Computers, Justice, Hollister, Levi's, Urban Outfitters, Aeropostale, Rugby, IKEA and American Apparel. The fact that we have all of these but Ikea and American Apparel (which some dismiss as an overpriced Gap) speaks volumes to how companies want to be in the Triangle market.

This US News and World Report article -- Fresh Brands for Big Spenders name drops some spinoffs coming from existsing stores. This includes metropark, started by Hot Topic's owner for people who out grow the clothing version of Spencer's gifts. Crate and Barrel even has a younger-skewing spinoff, CB2.

The rise of Wal-Mart has made starting something new a steep uphill climb. Consolidation of store brands and shopping center ownership doesn't help either. Over the last few years, Federated's purchase of the May company, Sears and Kmart's merger and Toys 'R Us going private are signs that the number of players in the retail game is shrinking. This CNN article mentions the downturns of Pier 1, Sharper Image, Pacific Sunwear, and Blockbuster.

The next level, which the Triangle is not ready for (and may never be) would be destination stores like Niketown, Nieman Marcus, etc. or botique designer stores.

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She said she believes it is both levels. Now that would be a whopping men's department.

StevenRocks, do you know of any malls in the south that are expanding? Is it me or has brick and mortar retail gotten REALLY stale? We (America) had a slew of interesting new national stores expanding around 10 years ago. To me it started with Pottery Barn and ended precisely with J. Jill. I wonder if 9/11 had anything to do with this or if the homogenization of the department stores had something to do with this. The big companies gobbled each other up so much, and it's such an oligopoly, that consumers are just bored with the entire genre of shopping, it appears. Maybe its just part of the cycle like the early 80's saw.

Frankly, I can't sit here and think of any big national chains that we don't have here. It used to be easy to name 5.

If they used both floors of Lord & Taylor, Hudson Belk would have a 100,000 square foot men's department! To give you a reference, that's about three times larger than what they have now in the main store. It would also increase Hudson Belk Crabtree Valley's store size to 351,000 square feet, which makes it about 20,000 square feet larger than Belk SouthPark in Charlotte, which is currently the biggest Belk of them all.

Outside of Florida (which tends to be an anomoly) big box and lifestyle centers and 'lifestyle additions' to existing malls, there's not a lot going on in new retail in the South. It's been stagnant for the past couple of years, and through 2010, I only know of maybe 4 or 5 major projects going up.

Consolidation, casual dress codes and an overabundance of Wal-Mart and Target stores killed off retail. Innovation got lost in the shuffle somwhere between 9/11 and now, but I don't know if that event was the catalyst.

All I know is even the most fervent retail fans are getting bored with the same eight stores in every mall. We need change.

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Old and new store concepts that have been expanding recently include Crate and Barrel, Apple Computers, Justice, Hollister, Levi's, Urban Outfitters, Aeropostale, Rugby, IKEA and American Apparel. The fact that we have all of these but Ikea and American Apparel (which some dismiss as an overpriced Gap) speaks volumes to how companies want to be in the Triangle market.

This US News and World Report article -- Fresh Brands for Big Spenders name drops some spinoffs coming from existsing stores. This includes metropark, started by Hot Topic's owner for people who out grow the clothing version of Spencer's gifts. Crate and Barrel even has a younger-skewing spinoff, CB2.

The rise of Wal-Mart has made starting something new a steep uphill climb. Consolidation of store brands and shopping center ownership doesn't help either. Over the last few years, Federated's purchase of the May company, Sears and Kmart's merger and Toys 'R Us going private are signs that the number of players in the retail game is shrinking. This CNN article mentions the downturns of Pier 1, Sharper Image, Pacific Sunwear, and Blockbuster.

The next level, which the Triangle is not ready for (and may never be) would be destination stores like Niketown, Nieman Marcus, etc. or botique designer stores.

Good analysis of where today's retail industry stands!

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Yeah, as a teenager, I am bored. Everything is the same. I don't enjoy going to the mall anymore. I just do. Malls suck.

Raleigh needs to start having some balls and offering incentives for people ot open up new stores, Maybe make a whole street downtown a chain-free zone. Just to let you guys know, up by crossroads, where holly springs rd. turns into walnut, they are building a new shopping center. That intersection had a CVS, and will soon have a walgreens, harris teeter, and Eckerd. I'm starting to hate the triangle.

Austin TX has it right. I went there two summers ago and was actually a little discomforted by the fact that there were virtually NO chain stores in existence. I love that city, raleigh needs to be more like them.

Austin actually started a "keep austin weird" campaign, they made shirts, bumper stickers, the works, and under the slogan it said support local businesses. Everyone in austin has one of those and everybody who has been to austin has one too. Lets be copy-cats (except raleigh never had enough independent businesses to classify as weird in the first place, maybe "make raleigh weird" campaign)

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Raleigh *is* offering incentives... the $300k loan to Capitol City Grocery, facade grants for existing and new places, and some sort of incentives to land The Mint in its building in the 200 block of F Street.

Existsing large "chains" on F Street include CVS, Quiznos, the US Post Office, Chick Fil A, and Sheraton. Port City Java, Cafe Carolina, and Kimbrell's furniture have a few locations, but I don't know if they count as chains. Independent outlets include the Capitol Room, Crema, American Pita, the Big Easy, Yancy's, 9th Street flowers and the barber shop.

The city even had a "make Austin weird" bumper sticker-less knockoff, raleighunchained.org/. It is disbanded now -- either people didn't know or didn't care enough to keep it going. The member businesses were spread out, and few in the CBD, didn't help the organization gain traction either.

Most Americans have voted with their dollars in favor of one stop shopping and bigger = better. This leaves independent retailers in either the second hand business (Father and Son's, Ed McKay's, Stuff) or food/coffee. Malls have equated "safe" with "bland" and. Unless people stop shopping at the mall, there is all the more incentive to offer more of the same.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah, as a teenager, I am bored. Everything is the same. I don't enjoy going to the mall anymore. I just do. Malls suck.

Raleigh needs to start having some balls and offering incentives for people ot open up new stores, Maybe make a whole street downtown a chain-free zone. Just to let you guys know, up by crossroads, where holly springs rd. turns into walnut, they are building a new shopping center. That intersection had a CVS, and will soon have a walgreens, harris teeter, and Eckerd. I'm starting to hate the triangle.

Austin TX has it right. I went there two summers ago and was actually a little discomforted by the fact that there were virtually NO chain stores in existence. I love that city, raleigh needs to be more like them.

Austin actually started a "keep austin weird" campaign, they made shirts, bumper stickers, the works, and under the slogan it said support local businesses. Everyone in austin has one of those and everybody who has been to austin has one too. Lets be copy-cats (except raleigh never had enough independent businesses to classify as weird in the first place, maybe "make raleigh weird" campaign)

No! You are so wrong! We need all these drugs stores on every damn corner in town...don't you know this by now!? :angry:

I can't even explain how much I hate this crap. I am really tired of this city. Do the people of Raleigh, and the leaders have any imagination? I am so sick of Wal-Greens, Harris freaken teeter, Wal-mart, and all these other BS stores I could blow them all up...and smile.

I really think this is a serious matter! At the rate things are going, what will it look like here in ten years? I mean, really, think about it for a second. What if they continue building these same lame ass stores at every major intersection in Raleigh?

If the buildings looked different, I would not care as much. They are all the same. You can't tell one section of town from the other.

How come no one is complaining about this? How come there are no protests? Does anyone even care other than me? Just look at all the dead end things people protest out there. What not do something that can really make a difference? There should not be another drug store allowed to be built in Raleigh. I say we just build a 1000 story drugstore skyscraper, and everyone can ride the imaginary light rail to pick up there drugs. (cause we will never get a transit system in our lifetime)

Because lameness and mediocrity is the only thing allowed in this city :angry:

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isn't a 100,000 sq foot mens store a bit excessive? Whats the avg sq footage for a Belk Men's Store?
The Belk in Danville, Va. has a freestanding men's store of around 35,000 square feet.

Still, Belk doesn't have a lot of freestanding men's stores. Most are combined with home departments and average around 60,000 square feet.

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Hmmm....I wonder if....nah. My trusty source would have logically told me that something homey was also moving to the old L&T space, too.
Ideally, Hudson Belk should turn the first two floors of the main store into women's apparel, the upper level of the main store into children's and home store, and the bottom floor of the old Lord & Taylor into a men's store, freeing up the top floor of the old Lord & Taylor for destination retail like - ahem - a full-sized Crate & Barrel. :whistling: Edited by StevenRocks
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  • 1 month later...

Here's a story on WRAL's website about Belk taking over the top floor of the former Lord & Taylor space at Crabtree. Looks like it will be part of a larger renovation of the store, bringing its total square footage (including the separate men's store I assume) to over 300k square feet.

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I just don't know how to feel about this at all!

Nice for Belk to expand, renovate. But this looks like the mall itself is going nowhere! I remember seeing a rendering of that Lord and Taylor space into a new bright and open space. Now through some paint up on the upstairs and nock down walls down stairs to sublet to a few more small stores? With Belk getting a renovation of there old, nasty looking from the outside building to the tune of $7 million plus? That part of the mall won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

It sounds to me as if Belk has the upper hand in the malls renovation plans? I understand how this is going to help Belk but can someone please tell me how this will help the mall and continue to provide competition to the area?

Sorry for sounding off! To me very sad news for the Crabtree area, it's going in the wrong direction! IMHO!!! :angry:

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I thought Federated was still holding onto their lease, are they subleasing the space to Belk or did they give the space back to the mall?

Btw look out for the other floor of the old L&T space to be filled by some form of Macy's, either men or home or something similar lol just a hunch I have.

Edited by NCMike1981
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Here is the N&O story on men's departments move.

It answers our questions about Federated's lease for the space:

Mall spokeswoman Sandra Geist said there's been a delay in filling the Lord & Taylor space because Federated Department Stores, Lord & Taylor's parent company, had a lease through 2011.

The mall chose to buy the lease back from Federated, something that happened this week.

How much did it cost Crabtree to buying back the lease? Who knows. Belk's desire for the space and Crabtree not wanting a big hole were big motivators. It would have been nice if Belks could have done this *before* last year's remodel. But Belk seems to be willing to put up the money for the second wave of rennovations, so more power to them.

As for expanding eastward from Belk, there might be another announcement in the next month:

Mall management has received city approval for a renovation plan that includes a second-story parking deck on the Belk end of the mall and new store space. Geist said that plan is still among the options being considered.

"That's what we're looking into," she said. "I don't know if it will be exactly the same, but hopefully in the next few weeks or so we can announce exciting plans for what's happening there."

Also, the bottom floor is still up for grabs. The "outdoor plaza" sketches unfortunatly won't come to fruition, at least in the old L&T space.

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Except for the additional store/restaurant space that the city has already approved, I think Crabtree will be stuck with the same old look for at least 10-20 more years, (yes I would love to be proven wrong)! Renovating the old L&T space and the Belk building sums up the "we,(read the mall owners), don't want to put a great deal of money into a real large expansion". Unless the mall comes up with a more complete redo, I am afraid what they have built to bring them this far will start to fade and come apart. IMHO! :blink:

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