Crabtree Valley Mall

[StevenRocks]

I am disappointed in the Hudson Belk news, to say the least. The worst part is that the main store needs far more than $7 million of work to make it look more presentable. It's already been the victim of too many half-herted makeovers over the past few years...yet here's another one.

Maybe we'll get a full sized Crate & Barrel under the new Hudson Belk annex.

[DigitalSky]

Maybe we'll get a full sized Crate & Barrel under the new Hudson Belk annex.

Yeah I hope that happens too. That would put it right under Williams-Sonoma too. hmm

[pack-man]

while not the ideal solution, it is going to fill up the void there now. I'm sure years down the road, something will change. We will just have to wait and see.

[PlazaMidwoodGuy]

Maybe we'll get a full sized Crate & Barrel under the new Hudson Belk annex.

Is Crate & Barrel building anything but the larger C&B Home stores these days? Just asking. I know they sat back and waited for years to come to SouthPark in Charlotte until they got just the spot they wanted on the property and they built a 2-level stand-alone store that isn't physically attached to the mall proper. It would appear the trend with C&B is that they don't want the stores they're building nowadays to be inside of a mall. Obviously Crabtree would be a great place for a C&B Home store, but is there a space for them to have their own plot of ground for a 2-level building? (Sorry, I've been to Crabtree a couple of times, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know how the new Hudson Belk annex is laid out and if there's room for a large C&B Home store there.)

Edited February 8, 2007 by PlazaMidwoodGuy

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

while not the ideal solution, it is going to fill up the void there now. I'm sure years down the road, something will change. We will just have to wait and see.

It appears, looking in from the outside, that the mall owners and Belk are just looking for the short term. Does anyone think that after spending multi millions on interior renovations that Belk would consider doing anything else,(like moving for an expanded mall), for a very, very, very, very, very, very long time? If so would someone please make it a point to help explain this rational. Thank you!

[ncwebguy]

I don't know where the Old Navy is going sine there was no space left over by Best Buy.

I didn't think we need another Old Navy, but I guess The Gap thinks we do... The Triangle Town Center/Poynter Place Old Navy handles traffic from points north and east, and Cary and Apex have their own locations. They could have put a store further from Crossroads, but the teen demographics at Crabtree makes sense. And it keeps Urban Outfitters out of that space.

The Crabtree C&B always seems to be busy, and the first floor L&T space would give plenty of space for furniture display and storage/pickup. They could make the old space a CB2, but that probably won't happen.

If Crabree's owners are going to subdivide the first floor L&T space, they could build into the dead space between Oakleys and Harrods. Make the corridor narrower to allow for "deeper" spaces or a restaurant space (a la Kanki).

[DPK]

@PlazaMidwoodGuy: This map should help orient you. I highlighted the new Belk Men's location in red. It will be on the 2nd floor of the mall. Glenwood is located directly south of this map.

@ncwebguy: There's definitely some space left, highlighted in this image.

And then just for fun, what happens when Belk takes on a life of it's own and starts feeding on customers and grows to become one...

I was bored at work, lol.

[dmccall]

Ha ha!! I cant' imagine how many pairs of blue jeans, Dockers, and forgettable NFL jackets they could stock with that space!

[DigitalSky]

LOL i love that DPK. Hudson Belk is taking over!

[StevenRocks]

Is Crate & Barrel building anything but the larger C&B Home stores these days? Just asking. I know they sat back and waited for years to come to SouthPark in Charlotte until they got just the spot they wanted on the property and they built a 2-level stand-alone store that isn't physically attached to the mall proper. It would appear the trend with C&B is that they don't want the stores they're building nowadays to be inside of a mall. Obviously Crabtree would be a great place for a C&B Home store, but is there a space for them to have their own plot of ground for a 2-level building? (Sorry, I've been to Crabtree a couple of times, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know how the new Hudson Belk annex is laid out and if there's room for a large C&B Home store there.)

Crate & Barrel doesn't usually but stores in malls anymore, but anything's possible. I think it would be a good fit.

Ha ha!! I cant' imagine how many pairs of blue jeans, Dockers, and forgettable NFL jackets they could stock with that space!

The Izod selection alone would be the size of a football field.

[carynative]

Haven't been able to be on for a while. Catching up on the discussion...

Keep in mind C/B fans, that the 1st floor of the LT store is considerably smaller than the second floor. It's by no means the size of an average level of a department store. For some reason, Crabtree built that anchor spot odd. I think that it would be bigger than the current CB store, just not HUGE.

[ncwebguy]

The link was to my original post about how there *was* space remaining between Best Buy and B&N, but was immediately followed by a "no there wasn't" post.

Before the early 90s shuffle, the old Hechts space was in line with the rest of the mall. The Williams Sonoma, Oakley (which started as The Sharper Image), and new car showroom space was created in front of the (relative to Hechts) smaller L&T store. If a tenant wanted a lot of space, they could create a storefront between Harold's and Oakely and go back through the former L&T space. Or Crabtree can continue the corridor "into" the L&T space and create smaller botique spaces.

With the second floor spoken for by Hudson Belk, closing the "open" sapce in front to create a large first floor space might not happen.

[ChiefJoJo]

Folks, I merged the old topic about the S/C next to Crabtree (Pier One, Best Buy, etc) with this one since they are so closely related. I also moved the merged Crabtree topic to the coffee house since it's mush more a retail-type or 'what do you like about the mall' discussion than project-related at this point.

BTW, If you want to discuss the recent project discussions and announcements of projects the at Kidd's Hill area , the hill overlooking Crabtree Valley ("Galleria at Crabtree"--now "Crabtree Towne Center," or "Crabtree Village"), click here.

[DigitalSky]

I just noticed the subheading for this thread says "discuss Raleigh's oldest mall," however, North Hills is technically Raleigh's oldest mall.

[ChiefJoJo]

^I understand what you mean, but North Hills no longer exists as an enclosed Mall, therefore the reigning oldest mall is Crabtree.

[ChiefJoJo]

Crabtree announces $18M expansion project.

The mall is beginning work today on a three-phase plan that will drastically alter its appearance from Glenwood Avenue -- adding three new restaurants and a three-level, 220-space parking deck on the Belk end of the building.

The first phase of the plan calls for the addition of the parking deck, which will fill the current parking lot between Belk and the separate Barnes & Noble building.

The final step of the project will add pedestrian walkways and new outdoor areas connecting the new parking deck and restaurants with the Barnes & Noble building and the existing restaurants along the mall's Glenwood Avenue side.

Looks like what a lot of people have been asking for, no? A nice "Streets at Crabtree" sort of feel?

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Sounds nice, but I hope that this parking deck is being built to with stand the weight of a future expansion so that it could be used in the future to support an expanded mall? I wonder what they are waiting for? Why are they doing small things in piece meal? Except for the Best Buy, that east end area looks awful! Maybe they need leases to expire? I hope that they don't wait another 20+ years before they redo that area.

[carynative]

any renderings?.. i'm having trouble picturing how this will pan out.

[DPK]

So is this going to stretch _all_the_way to Barnes & Noble, basically tying into that structure? I'm having trouble picturing it too. I wonder if they've thought ahead enough to make sure construction of the bottom floor of the deck is at least finished by the time Thanksgiving comes around. Else that place is going to be worse than it has been with the reduction of parking.

As a side note, it'd be kind of cool if they tacked on another floor on top of B&N while they were at it.

Edited March 20, 2007 by DPK

[Jones_]

220 spaces does not sound like many for a three story deck.....I guess the restaurant level won't have many spaces?

[dmccall]

Boy, is this article ever irritating.

a) Didn't we already know that the mall had applied with the city to construct a parking deck all the way to B&N with restaurants on the top?

b) If they are going to do a lame version of my plan, why not do it RIGHT?!!! They had a perfect opportunity to temporarily move B&N and the little shops over to Lord & Taylor, raze the plaza, and redevelop the thing so it works as a pedestrian village that extends across the creek. Best Buy could have come in and been the end of street anchor (much like Organized Living was at Southpoint), they could have put a theatre in, a huge B&N store, and maybe even condos above stores.

With this plan, they are proving that there was demand for space in my plan all along, they just, what, didn't want to spend the money? I hate seeing people settle for #2.

[ncwebguy]

$18 Million isn't pocket change, but it seems like a lot to spend to only gain three restaurant spaces and 220 parking spaces. The N&O's rendering isn't too helpful.

It looks like restaurants will be entered from the back side, and just look pretty from Glenwood. This could leave some parking on the third level closer to Crabtree Creek.

The small stores behind B&N (Post office, etc.) won't see any sunlight? Starting over from west of Best Buy would have been better, but it seems Crabtree would rather appease Old Navy and Hudson Belk than step up to the next Southpark-like level. Unless Crabtree is conceding the high end stores to the Galleria?

[StevenRocks]

This $18 million project is nothing more than a beautification project. They've been talking about doing something like this for a while. It's not really that impressive, but it will bring some more restaurant choices to the mall. Ho-hum.

[ChiefJoJo]

Here's todays N&O article.

Notice everything will be on the second floor or higher tying in with Barnes and Noble's 2nd floor. I'm sure that's due to flooding issues. So really, there will be no ground level retail at all--just parking spaces.

The whole crabtree area is going to be on stilts before it's over...

[tjoad]

Being a foodie, I am most excited about the three new restaurants. Hopefully at least one of them would be a nice locally owned restaurant. I am not too thrilled about the plans though, and would have liked a more comprehensive redevelopment (like dana's ).