Crabtree Valley Mall

[StevenRocks]

First the furniture department, then the Capitol Room, then the chandeliers, now the sign...Goodbye Hudson Belk

[DigitalSky]

First the furniture department, then the Capitol Room, then the chandeliers, now the sign...Goodbye Hudson Belk

All feels like it's happening so quickly.

[NCMike1981]

On my way home from work this evening as I was driving by the mall I glanced over at Crabtree and was kind of suprised by how large the Belk sign is as well as how bright the blue flower thing is. I haven't noticed it during the day yet but at night the signage is definately eye catching.

I will say I do like how Belk allowed the mall (or maybe Belk suggested it I really don't know) to put up those huge banners of art (courtesy of the NC Museum of Art) on the side of the building facing restaurant row. It really dresses up that side of the store.

Here's a pic of the artwork on the side of <Hudson> Belk.

Edited October 14, 2010 by NCMike1981

[DigitalSky]

RIP Hudson

[StevenRocks]

The banners are pretty cool. But, really, since all the decorative and most of the architectural elements that made the exterior attractive are gone, it might be time to remodel the outside of the Belk store.

Edited October 14, 2010 by StevenRocks

[NCMike1981]

I recently scanned some old pics (circa Oct 2005) that I had taken, these may have been posted a while back in "picture of a picture" form but here's the actual scans:

Crabtree Lord & Taylor, a few months prior to closure, currently Belk Mens Store:

Hudson Belk (currently just Belk):

notice the parking lot in what is currently "restaurant row":

[StevenRocks]

Cool.

[DigitalSky]

yeah cool - I'd never seen the Lord & Taylor store from that level, makes it feel like it has a proper entrance.

[Rufus]

So now that Crate and Barrel is closed, that makes 2 empty stores, including the Zara Collections store in the lower Belk Wing. Not to mention the temporary prom store in the spot next to Brooks Brothers and the store next to the Cheesecake Factory opposite of the new Red Monkey, and that makes four available spots.

Personally I think the Crate and Barrel location is a prime spot for some nice retail considering its location adjacent to JCrew and across from the large Forever 21. I would hope that the store would be divided in two so that more retailers can come in. And with Crabtree being a test mall for a lot of new retailers, could we expect the mall to pursue such retailers?

[DigitalSky]

I noticed those closings too recently, but man Crabtree was PACKED on Saturday! I don't think it should be too much of a problem filling those locations.

[StevenRocks]

I'm certain all those spots will be filled by fall.

[Jones_]

living here for 24 years vacancies are Crabtree have always seemed to be much more about the retailer itself than the mall or even positioning in the mall. I mean...how many crystal collectables can you sell and pay retail rent?

[NCMike1981]

Here's just a few pics of Crabtree (and the Container Store across the street from Crabtree):

Sears

Macy*s

The Container Store

Edited April 7, 2011 by NCMike1981

[Hockyluv21]

So, the Crate and Barrel space was filled in. QUICKLY. By an even larger store. Arhaus Furniture signed a lease to operate a 20,000 sq. ft. store in the C&B and FootAction USA spot. FootAction will move to the expanded slot next to Hollister Co. to accomodate this.

In smaller news, Bevello, a Cameron Village boutique, opened its second store between Rockport and Ticknors, Red Monkey Tavern, a two-story gastropub, will open in the old Aggie's and Pharaoh's spots, and Earthbound Trading Co. will open its third store in the state (Others @ Concord Mills and Asheville) next to Spencer's Gifts.

Now, for my ideas:

Short-term (3 years)

I'm really liking Crabtree's strategy of recruiting stores that are new to the area and/or state, to keep the mall updated and differentiable from Southpoint and Triangle Town. IMO, to continue this strategy, Crabtree should focus on getting an American Apparel, Gilly Hicks and a Pinkberry to open in the remaining vacant spots (Which are few and far between). All would be extremely successful in the mall, IMO.

Long-term:

In the long-term, I think that expanding downward would be a good idea. Build a basement in the court between Macy's and Sears, relocate the food court there in the new expanded space, and build an additional basement in the Belk to house an expanded men's department. The room created from this expansion can be used to add more big-box retailers (such as an expanded H+M, an expanded Hollister and/or Abercrombie, Urban Outfitters, L.L. Bean, Movie Theaters, a relocated Old Navy, etc.), restaurants (Ideas: Hard Rock Cafe, Gordon Biersch, or independent concepts) and potential luxury chains such as Neiman Marcus or Bloomingdale's. I personally think it's important that the stores are new to the area or, even better, to the state in general.

Links:

Article announcing the stores: http://www.bizjourna...thbound-to.html

Arhaus Furniture: http://www.arhaus.com/

Earthbound Trading: http://earthboundtrading.com/

Edited May 1, 2011 by Hockyluv21

[101_ce]

So, the Crate and Barrel space was filled in. QUICKLY. By an even larger store. Arhaus Furniture signed a lease to operate a 20,000 sq. ft. store in the C&B and FootAction USA spot. FootAction will move to the expanded slot next to Hollister Co. to accomodate this.

In smaller news, Bevello, a Cameron Village boutique, opened its second store between Rockport and Ticknors, Red Monkey Tavern, a two-story gastropub, will open in the old Aggie's and Pharaoh's spots, and Earthbound Trading Co. will open its third store in the state (Others @ Concord Mills and Asheville) next to Spencer's Gifts.

Now, for my ideas:

Short-term (3 years)

I'm really liking Crabtree's strategy of recruiting stores that are new to the area and/or state, to keep the mall updated and differentiable from Southpoint and Triangle Town. IMO, to continue this strategy, Crabtree should focus on getting an American Apparel, Gilly Hicks and a Pinkberry to open in the remaining vacant spots (Which are few and far between). All would be extremely successful in the mall, IMO.

Long-term:

In the long-term, I think that expanding downward would be a good idea. Build a basement in the court between Macy's and Sears, relocate the food court there in the new expanded space, and build an additional basement in the Belk to house an expanded men's department. The room created from this expansion can be used to add more big-box retailers (such as an expanded H+M, an expanded Hollister and/or Abercrombie, Urban Outfitters, L.L. Bean, Movie Theaters, a relocated Old Navy, etc.), restaurants (Ideas: Hard Rock Cafe, Gordon Biersch, or independent concepts) and potential luxury chains such as Neiman Marcus or Bloomingdale's. I personally think it's important that the stores are new to the area or, even better, to the state in general.

Links:

Article announcing the stores: http://www.bizjourna...thbound-to.html

Arhaus Furniture: http://www.arhaus.com/

Earthbound Trading: http://earthboundtrading.com/

I have many things to say about this so I guess I'll just start now.

1. Just so you guys know Earthbound Trading Co. is nothing to write home about. I saw the store at the Asheville Mall yesterday and it's definitely where most of downtown Asheville shops! haha But I'm assuming that Arhaus Furniture is a pretty big deal, considering they just opened/are opening a store at Phipps Plaza in Atlanta.

2. Crabtree could get a Pinkberry. American Apparel is probably unlikely since (I think) they're doing bad financially. Gilly Hicks is unlikely as well since they aren't even at Lenox or SouthPark yet, which are more likely to be ahead on the list for Raleigh (at least for A&F they are). I think Crabtree should expand and a basement level is the only way possible. I really hate "double-header" department stores, so I think moving the Belk Men's store to a basement level of the regular store would be ideal. Since H&M is the first in the state, that could work. A movie theater would be ideal as well. They are good on restaurants, but more couldn't hurt. Hollister and Abercrombie & Fitch won't/shouldn't expand though. Hollister is around 6,000 and A&F is around 9,000 square feet. I've actually heard that A&F at Crabtree Valley was one of their worst performing stores on the East coast, but I'm not sure. I've been to the one at SouthPoint, which is the Triangle's largest one, and the third men's room was closed off so that's not a good sign either. It wasn't very full either, and their SouthPark store seems much more appealing and gets more business. Bloomingdale's pretty much refuses to expand, and Charlotte would also probably get one first. Neiman Marcus *might* be a possibility, though. If Saks were to close (which I doubt, but they've been doing that lately), then NM would absolutely NOT take their place at TTC. That was probably one of the biggest mistakes they could make (opening there instead of SouthPoint or Crabtree), I think that since Charlotte's most likely going to get the bulk of new-to-state stores, SouthPoint and Crabtree should try to catch up with SouthPark and, if possible, pull people from Greensboro and surrounding areas going to SouthPark rather than Raleigh/Durham.

[Hockyluv21]

I have many things to say about this so I guess I'll just start now.

1. Just so you guys know Earthbound Trading Co. is nothing to write home about. I saw the store at the Asheville Mall yesterday and it's definitely where most of downtown Asheville shops! haha But I'm assuming that Arhaus Furniture is a pretty big deal, considering they just opened/are opening a store at Phipps Plaza in Atlanta.

2. Crabtree could get a Pinkberry. American Apparel is probably unlikely since (I think) they're doing bad financially. Gilly Hicks is unlikely as well since they aren't even at Lenox or SouthPark yet, which are more likely to be ahead on the list for Raleigh (at least for A&F they are). I think Crabtree should expand and a basement level is the only way possible. I really hate "double-header" department stores, so I think moving the Belk Men's store to a basement level of the regular store would be ideal. Since H&M is the first in the state, that could work. A movie theater would be ideal as well. They are good on restaurants, but more couldn't hurt. Hollister and Abercrombie & Fitch won't/shouldn't expand though. Hollister is around 6,000 and A&F is around 9,000 square feet. I've actually heard that A&F at Crabtree Valley was one of their worst performing stores on the East coast, but I'm not sure. I've been to the one at SouthPoint, which is the Triangle's largest one, and the third men's room was closed off so that's not a good sign either. It wasn't very full either, and their SouthPark store seems much more appealing and gets more business. Bloomingdale's pretty much refuses to expand, and Charlotte would also probably get one first. Neiman Marcus *might* be a possibility, though. If Saks were to close (which I doubt, but they've been doing that lately), then NM would absolutely NOT take their place at TTC. That was probably one of the biggest mistakes they could make (opening there instead of SouthPoint or Crabtree), I think that since Charlotte's most likely going to get the bulk of new-to-state stores, SouthPoint and Crabtree should try to catch up with SouthPark and, if possible, pull people from Greensboro and surrounding areas going to SouthPark rather than Raleigh/Durham.

Actually, I totally agree about the Abercrombie comment, as it is not the most popular store to Crabtree consumers (probably due to lower-priced competition from H&M and Forever 21). My post, however, mostly had to deal with the Hollister next door, which based on my experience, is EXTREMELY popular, even on weekdays (as far as weekdays go). I'm of the belief that that is a store that should expand when the opportunity comes, to compete with newcomers like H&M and Forever 21 (who are in their general price range). I know it's kind of far-fetched, but knowing the daily crowd volume at that store, it sure wouldn't be too shocking if they expand.

[101_ce]

Actually, I totally agree about the Abercrombie comment, as it is not the most popular store to Crabtree consumers (probably due to lower-priced competition from H&M and Forever 21). My post, however, mostly had to deal with the Hollister next door, which based on my experience, is EXTREMELY popular, even on weekdays (as far as weekdays go). I'm of the belief that that is a store that should expand when the opportunity comes, to compete with newcomers like H&M and Forever 21 (who are in their general price range). I know it's kind of far-fetched, but knowing the daily crowd volume at that store, it sure wouldn't be too shocking if they expand.

Yeah Hollister is definitely more likely to expand. I don't know why but SouthPark is almost reverse for the teen/young adult retailers than most malls are. Abercrombie & Fitch is the most popular, Hollister is a very large store with 2 closed rooms, so it's still small and has nothing. The womens side was EXTREMELY packed and the mens side was empty. American Eagle is even more empty then Hollister, and Aeropostale is ALWAYS completely empty when I walk by at SouthPark. Normally, it's the opposite, but not there I can't complain since I love A&F, I occasionally shop at Hollister, and I don't like AE or Aero. But you also have to think about the size. My mom and sister were talking about how HCo in my mall was SO much more popular and they had WAY more shoppers than A&F, however, the HCO is tiny, so they truly have the same amount. Crabtree's probably different, though.

[StevenRocks]

Congrats on the Arhaus. They're a hot store right now and they have really nice home goods. The gastropub sounds cool, too.

I'm kind of amazed that Abercrombie still gets business anywhere, as they're pretty much stuck in 2002 and a bit overpriced. If I was shopping in that demographic, I'd go to Hollister, AE and Aero first because they're less expensive and nearly as nice.

Expanding Crabtree at this point would be tricky whatever way you went, but I'd go with a third floor rather than a basement. I'd also buy out Sears's lease and move a more upscale anchor in.

[orulz]

A basement level at Crabtree Valley Mall would not work. The mall is in an extremely low area next to a major creek that overflows its banks and floods about every 5-10 years or so. the ground level of the current mall floods sometimes. If there were a basement, it would fill up with water, and that water would have to be PUMPED out. So, no.

Crabtree Place is a proposal which would add 262,000 square feet of retail space plus offices and apartments right next door. It's close enough so that the it could be nicely integrated with the mall, about 400 feet from the nearest entrance, but since it's a competing development I doubt they'll try. This proposal is not dead as far as I know, but is on hold.

For expansion on the mall property, an outdoor section built on top of the parking deck facing Glenwood would be great. Either that, or on the deck behind the mall, between CTVM and Crabtree Place. In reality the CTVM property is probably just about maxed out without some significant demolition to make room.

[orulz]

... buy out Sears's lease and move a more upscale anchor in.

Agreed on the Sears. I don't think there's much synergy between Sears and the other retailers at the mall. If I'm getting something at Sears, I go to Sears and don't go in the mall. If I'm looking for something in the mall (which is admittedly quite uncommon) I don't set foot in Sears.

I think Sears should move out of CTVM, merge the store into one of the city's K-Marts, and turn the whole shebang into a Sears Grand. I know they've done exactly that before in other cities. Western Boulevard would probably be the easiest, since the property is reasonably large at 15 acres, and there's not much else on it. But then again maybe they'd rather do it elsewhere.

[101_ce]

Congrats on the Arhaus. They're a hot store right now and they have really nice home goods. The gastropub sounds cool, too.

I'm kind of amazed that Abercrombie still gets business anywhere, as they're pretty much stuck in 2002 and a bit overpriced. If I was shopping in that demographic, I'd go to Hollister, AE and Aero first because they're less expensive and nearly as nice.

Expanding Crabtree at this point would be tricky whatever way you went, but I'd go with a third floor rather than a basement. I'd also buy out Sears's lease and move a more upscale anchor in.

A basement level at Crabtree Valley Mall would not work. The mall is in an extremely low area next to a major creek that overflows its banks and floods about every 5-10 years or so. the ground level of the current mall floods sometimes. If there were a basement, it would fill up with water, and that water would have to be PUMPED out. So, no.

Crabtree Place is a proposal which would add 262,000 square feet of retail space plus offices and apartments right next door. It's close enough so that the it could be nicely integrated with the mall, about 400 feet from the nearest entrance, but since it's a competing development I doubt they'll try. This proposal is not dead as far as I know, but is on hold.

For expansion on the mall property, an outdoor section built on top of the parking deck facing Glenwood would be great. Either that, or on the deck behind the mall, between CTVM and Crabtree Place. In reality the CTVM property is probably just about maxed out without some significant demolition to make room.

Agreed on the Sears. I don't think there's much synergy between Sears and the other retailers at the mall. If I'm getting something at Sears, I go to Sears and don't go in the mall. If I'm looking for something in the mall (which is admittedly quite uncommon) I don't set foot in Sears.

I think Sears should move out of CTVM, merge the store into one of the city's K-Marts, and turn the whole shebang into a Sears Grand. I know they've done exactly that before in other cities. Western Boulevard would probably be the easiest, since the property is reasonably large at 15 acres, and there's not much else on it. But then again maybe they'd rather do it elsewhere.

1. Well actually A&F is definitely the best quality out of the four, and Aeropostale is actually the overpriced one. The full price of most items there is almost more than double what you end up paying, so they just make high prices to make you think you're getting a great deal. A&F prices may be high, but they have been doing a lot of sales, and the quality is better, and I'm very surprised that you think it's "2002" with things that never go out of style (tee shirts, polos, wovens, etc.) A&F is definitely more popular than you think!

2. Yeah that's true I forgot about that! That would be nearly impossible to do.

3. Sears in just about any mall has been empty. I guess they don't have enough money to close a store and open another or expand another. Well I'm sure they have enough money but it wouldn't make sense for how much that would cost.

[Hockyluv21]

1. Well actually A&F is definitely the best quality out of the four, and Aeropostale is actually the overpriced one. The full price of most items there is almost more than double what you end up paying, so they just make high prices to make you think you're getting a great deal. A&F prices may be high, but they have been doing a lot of sales, and the quality is better, and I'm very surprised that you think it's "2002" with things that never go out of style (tee shirts, polos, wovens, etc.) A&F is definitely more popular than you think!

2. Yeah that's true I forgot about that! That would be nearly impossible to do.

3. Sears in just about any mall has been empty. I guess they don't have enough money to close a store and open another or expand another. Well I'm sure they have enough money but it wouldn't make sense for how much that would cost.

1. The problem is Abercrombie has nothing to do with the quality of the clothes, but rather that their reputation has been tarnished by shows such as Jersey Shore and in general by people that wear A&F polos two sizes too tight w/ their collar popped and stomach hanging out like stuffed sausage. They will recover from it eventually, though. They have Hollister and the like to wait it out.

2. If they can't expand downward, they should do so upwards. Also, they should try to get Sears to anchor in Crabtree Place (much like JCPenney at North Hills), integrate that shopping center with Crabtree by pedestrian and road bridges (replacing the food court with an outdoor area with a 16 screen theater and a store such as Zara or Urban Outfitters, and relocating the food court to a new third floor at the center court) and build a 4th floor in the Belk to free up more space for an expanded H&M and Hollister. Then build a luxury wing where Sears moves out of and convince a luxury department store such as Bloomingdale's or Neiman Marcus to come in.

3. This is long-term, however. Right now, Crabtree is in an envious position right now of having nearly every space occupied during a time where some parts of the economy hasn't quite recovered yet. They should use this position to fill the old Smith and Hawken and the old Levi's with a store unique to the state or region.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Hockyluv21

[Jones_]

The crabtree site is a wide plain of shallow bedrock, making it hard digging and well below the water table. Probably not feasible though I don't know what construction cost tolerance mall rents will support. How about a sky bridge over Edwards Mill (Creedmoor extension?) to the the Soleil site for an expansion? Too disconnected? It might go for a firesale price making it suitable for some lower rent tenant...or done well, it could be a cool office-retail building connected via said skybridge to the mall proper....

Heck, I normally hate skybridges, but given the traffic situation why not connect the hotels and all the adjoining retail areas via pretty glass skybridges. The mall might be able to partner for some parking spaces too if they are willing to pay for the pedestrian connection.....

[Rufus]

I've always thought Crabtree could expand into something like the mall at King of Prussia. It is like two separate centers, but still connected, and still very conducive to both luxury, and everything else shopping. Kidd's Hill, Crabtree Place (behind the mall), and the Soleil site pose great potential for this to come true.

[DigitalSky]

I've always thought Crabtree could expand into something like the mall at King of Prussia. It is like two separate centers, but still connected, and still very conducive to both luxury, and everything else shopping. Kidd's Hill, Crabtree Place (behind the mall), and the Soleil site pose great potential for this to come true.

I like this idea.