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Crabtree Valley Mall


DigitalSky

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True, there are plenty of places with two high-end malls right next to each other. Lenox/Phipps in Atlanta and Tysons Center/Tysons Galleria in NoVa also come to mind.

It can work, but only in cities as large as those two, where there's enough of a population base. I think in Crabtree's case, everything should be seamlessly connected to get it to work. Skybridges to open air centers at the proposed Crabtree Place would be ideal.

Edited by Hockyluv21
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  • 7 months later...

That's a huge store to fill, so hopefully it will be broken up into at least 2 stores. This is probably the busiest corridor of the mall since it is home to Apple and the new Tommy Bahama. I have no doubt that this spot will be filled quickly. Restoration Hardware wasn't doing as well as its counterpart Pottery Barn, so I'm not too sad.

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Ever since Crabtree lost L&T it feels as if they need to somehow add an upscale anchor onto the mall or make Sears close and replace it with a large anchor unique to the market. It seems like even though the mall has lost some long time stores recently the vacant spaces are filled quickly and the mall seems to be packed with folks year round....I wonder if Sears owns their space? I've heard that's how they tend to hold onto so many mall anchor stores...if they own the store it may be harder to get them to leave...

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Ever since Crabtree lost L&T it feels as if they need to somehow add an upscale anchor onto the mall or make Sears close and replace it with a large anchor unique to the market. It seems like even though the mall has lost some long time stores recently the vacant spaces are filled quickly and the mall seems to be packed with folks year round....I wonder if Sears owns their space? I've heard that's how they tend to hold onto so many mall anchor stores...if they own the store it may be harder to get them to leave...

I agree. Since Southpoint has Nordstrom, it seems like the nicer mall, which it probably is for luxury and higher end goods. I don't think the area can support 2 of a lot of these stores anyway, otherwise they wouldn't be closing. The problem is that Southpoint is overall more upscale and they have the nicer anchor. Crabtree is just old and has an old Belk, while nice, is, well, old. Southpoint is pretty new. I expected Southpoint to be nicer and larger than it was (the mall, not really the lifestyle center), but I'm sure that after being to SouthPark so many times Crabtree wouldn't impress me at all. It's just that Southpoint is getting better and Crabtree isn't improving. I think eventually SouthPark will have more stores like Lenox and Southpoint will become like SouthPark is today. Crabtree, well, I can't really see anything much different and it still being #2 in the area, in my opinion.

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I went to Crabtree this afternoon about 330 and the place was utterly packed (I'd hate to see what it will be like tomorrow)...I just ran into the mall to get a present from one store and then ran out but I parked near the Food Court entrance in the deck and noticed they seem to be doing alot of exterior work for the upcoming Arhaus Furniture Store (which is opening next yr according to the mega banner). The store looks like it will be pretty big, at least from the deck...

All I have to say is I'm glad I've figured out the back way into the mall and the best way to navigate the decks b/c traffic is so backed up on Glenwood w/ folks trying to get into the mall this time of year

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noticed they seem to be doing alot of exterior work for the upcoming Arhaus Furniture Store (which is opening next yr according to the mega banner). The store looks like it will be pretty big, at least from the deck...

It will indeed be a rather massive store. If memory serves, Arhaus is taking all of the old Crate & Barrel space, all of Foot Action's space, and part of Deb's. Should be open by January.

Here's an article from the N&O:

http://blogs.newsobs...te-barrel-space

The mall map for those that like visuals:

http://www.crabtree-valley-mall.com/images/map/crabtree-map.pdf

Edited by DPK
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  • 3 months later...

Couple of tidbits:

-- The Eye is closing in the food court, mainly because the Canes didn't make the playoffs.

-- Stride Rite is taking the former Eye space.

-- True Religion is taking the former Stride Rite space next to the newly remodeled Swarovski store.

-- Canadian retailer Garage is opening a 4,000 sf store in the Restoration Hardware space. I'm not sure, but that shouldn't take up all of the space. It was a huge store...so there's a likely chance another store will take the remaining store.

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Today is Crabtree Valley Mall's 40th birthday!

This first link is an article w/ some info related to the mall, the highlight is "Today Crabtree boasts of its position in the top 5 percent of malls nationally in terms of sales per square foot, with average stores sales of $665 per square foot. (By comparison, Triangle Town Center had average sales last year of $287 per square foot for non-anchor tenants, according to securities documents. Streets at Southpoint does not release sales information but general manager Pat Anderson said “I can say it’s a very successful center.”)" Also in reference to the Crabtree vs Southpoint issue the following from the Crabtree POV "“They have more department-store space and we have more mall-shop space,” he said. “That means we have about 50 percent more opportunity for diverse tenants.”

The smaller shops have allowed Crabtree a fair amount of exclusivity as well – with 35 stores exclusive to either the Triangle or the state, Rudolph said."

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/08/01/2238003/crabtree-valley-mall-turns-40.html

The following is a listing of scheduled events for today:

http://www.crabtree-valley-mall.com/events/detail/id/1332/the-groovy-40th-birthday-bash

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CRABTREE! :-p

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Today is Crabtree Valley Mall's 40th birthday!

This first link is an article w/ some info related to the mall, the highlight is "Today Crabtree boasts of its position in the top 5 percent of malls nationally in terms of sales per square foot, with average stores sales of $665 per square foot. (By comparison, Triangle Town Center had average sales last year of $287 per square foot for non-anchor tenants, according to securities documents. Streets at Southpoint does not release sales information but general manager Pat Anderson said “I can say it’s a very successful center.”)" Also in reference to the Crabtree vs Southpoint issue the following from the Crabtree POV "“They have more department-store space and we have more mall-shop space,” he said. “That means we have about 50 percent more opportunity for diverse tenants.”

The smaller shops have allowed Crabtree a fair amount of exclusivity as well – with 35 stores exclusive to either the Triangle or the state, Rudolph said."

http://www.newsobser...l-turns-40.html

The following is a listing of scheduled events for today:

http://www.crabtree-...h-birthday-bash

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CRABTREE! :-p

Good for Crabtree! That should put it at #2 in the Carolinas for sales per square foot! It's definitely a nice mall, and I hope it gets an upscale department store someday. I was just a little kid when I lived briefly in Raleigh, so I barely remember this mall. Heck, even my parents don't remember it being 'Hudson' Belk rather than Belk. That is the main reason why I prefer Southpoint to Crabtree-Nordstrom. That is pretty much my favorite store, and SouthPoint is newer. I still have NO idea whatsoever why Saks went to Triangle. I think they would do much better at Crabtree.

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  • 7 months later...

I spent a fair amount of time reading the covenants on file with the Wake Recorder for Triangle Town Center, trying to figure out the amount of time that Saks is legally obligated to stay open. That particular figure is in a private agreement that's not online, but the recorded covenants often mention a 55 year term -- which can only be breached if the department store is in serious financial distress. So Saks' lawyers had better hope that something about TTC's current financial woes is enough for them to call a breach of contract on CBL's part.

The other thing I now realize is that redeveloping a mall is way more complicated than I thought. These contracts (standard for all malls) require that the mall exist as it was built (including the amount of parking and the allowed uses) for decades, and allow the owner or the various department stores to sue one another for breach. Even selling one outparcel to one hotel requires amending the entire thing, and getting all six parties to sign off. It's insane.

The only reason why two nice malls can survive side by side at Buckhead or Tysons is that they're islands of high density, each surrounded by a million rich people who zealously guard their low density. The nearest competing malls to Tysons are about 10 miles away.

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  • 2 months later...

I know on other boards there is plenty of talk about traffic, parking, where could green space possibly go etc. But, taking such a massive retail footprint towards more of a mixed use footprint, is at least a step in the right direction. 

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I just hope they can pull it off a mixture of office, residential and hotel is all complicated in one building but can be done.   And the editor of Triangle Business Journal came out in favor of it in an editorial in last weeks edition.  Malls are all having to reinvent themselves and this is a big step for Crabtree.  

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I think they need to go a step further and do something like reduce the block size...say punch Homewood Banks through the property to Glenwood and get another traffic light installed (synched with the rest of Glenwood of course), then make that smaller, eastern block the major mixed use block say. That whole grouping around Best Buy is terribly laid out and could use a entire redoing. Then you could eliminate the weird Blue Ridge entrance that snakes around behind and front the new buildings to Blue Ridge for proper urban-ish orientation. Just one rambling thought/possibility. 

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