Crabtree Valley Mall

[rooster8]

We went Saturday. If you were looking for an ugly women's jacket, you were in the right spot. Otherwise, it was a waste of time. Interestingly enough, it was also the last day for Toys R Us. They almost nothing and 95% of the store was roped off.

I hadn't been to Crabtree in a while, but it struck me as how empty it felt. I can remember going there about 10 years ago after the major remodel when walking down the mall was difficult because of all the people. It didn't feel that way this time.

[NCMike1981]

February is one of the slow months in retail...I imagine Crabtree has been hurt by the new malls a bit, but I think it's far enough away from them to hold it together.

[StevenRocks]

Mike's right. You can't really judge the health of a mall accurately in February. Once the weather breaks and people's wallets recover from the holidays, it'll be busier.

[rooster8]

That's good to hear - Crabtree has always been my favorite mall. I'd hate to think it might go down hill because of increased competition.

[willrusso]

I think Crabtree is still doing very well. I'm sure most people who live in that area would rather just go to Crabtree rather than drive all the way to Triangle Town Center or Southpoint.

[RaleighLover]

How big of a boost will The Soleil Center give Crabtree Valley Mall?

[ncwebguy]

We went to crabtree on Sunday afternoon to eat and get one last look at Lord and Taylor...

I always drive into the deck from what used to be Kidd Hill Plaza.. it looks bad over there now. No signs of construction or movement, just dead, scorched earth. Maybe their plan is to let it look ugly for a while till neighbors beg devlopers to do whatever they want... why not? it worked for solei! The hotel there might help crabtree, but the condos won't. No one who can afford the Westin will want to risk life and limb crossing Creedmoor by foot to get to the bland Hechts entrances.

Anwyay, around 2pm, the food court was pretty packed... a mix of people just out of church and others who appear to eat there every sunday afternoon as a regular routine.

Cyberstation was kinda depressing only one old school game left (Galaga) next to all the shooting, driving, dancing, and fighting games. The old standbys centipede and ms. pac man were gone!

L&T was super empty -- a couple of racks of clothes, a jewelery case and fixtures for sale. It seemed there was more security than sales staff... we went into the fit__ng ro_ms just beacuse we could... my gf told me about how she watched the same skirt for six months or so drop in price till she wanted to buy it. I don't know how much of their inventory was sold at full price vs. people like her who just played the waiting game, but that's probably one of the reasons the store is no more.

I figured Toys R Us would be as bad or worse, so we didn't even bother going over there.

[StevenRocks]

L&T was super empty -- a couple of racks of clothes, a jewelery case and fixtures for sale. It seemed there was more security than sales staff... we went into the fit__ng ro_ms just beacuse we could... my gf told me about how she watched the same skirt for six months or so drop in price till she wanted to buy it. I don't know how much of their inventory was sold at full price vs. people like her who just played the waiting game, but that's probably one of the reasons the store is no more.

That is one of the reasons stores like Lord & Taylor aren't doing well these days. They've trained us to wait for sales to buy, and since most of us have so much stuff, we can afford to wait until the store's ready to sell it for practically nothing.

[NCMike1981]

Do you think that immediately after the store closes they'll take down all of the Lord & Taylor signage and plaster over the entrance, or will they keep up the signage and simply keep the gate pulled down until something is figured out? The store name is all over the mall...around the entrances, in the parking decks, they'd have to take down alot of signs...

I really do like the store's signage...I think it's the whole cursive thing....so much better then most stores plain print letters imo...

Edited February 28, 2006 by NCMike1981

[ncwebguy]

The N&O has a "what now?" story, in the new, post TRU and L&T Crabree, with mall officials not saying anything. This is probably due to Federated's lease of the old L&T space. The cursive signs (unlike their service) are distintive, but may be confusing since the store isn't there any more.

There were no "save our store" sit ins at either space (or buddist monks setting themselves on fire in protest), but that's probably due to the public's apathy toward just about anything these days.

With these two new empty spaces, Kidds Hill, and Solei, Crabtree could really do something big, but as it is, they're still keeping quiet about the Apple store (could it fit in the space by the closed Gymboree and the redundant second floor Bath and Body works?) Since neither space looks like it will have a permanent tenant by Christmas 2007, it will be interesting to see how shoppers respond in that shopping season.

[dmccall]

...but that's probably due to the public's apathy toward just about anything these days.

I don't really have a response to this.

Seriously, things have gotten interestingly quiet at Crabtree. I think there is some either some serious, BIG time planning going on...or they are in a tailspin and ain't gonna admit nuthin! It's time for us all to write Crabtree with our plans for expansion of an urban focus concept around the mall. A walkable community from Glenwood Ave all the way up the hill to Glen Eden Rd. could be a real gem for the city. It starts with tearing down the plaza, though. Of course, I've mentioned my Crabtree expansion plan here ad nauseum, but some of you have had some good ideas. Send them to the General Manager before it is too late!:

Bobby Medlin. General Manager

c/o Crabtree Valley Mall

4325 Glenwood Ave.

Raleigh, NC 27612

[StevenRocks]

Do you think that immediately after the store closes they'll take down all of the Lord & Taylor signage and plaster over the entrance, or will they keep up the signage and simply keep the gate pulled down until something is figured out? The store name is all over the mall...around the entrances, in the parking decks, they'd have to take down alot of signs...

I really do like the store's signage...I think it's the whole cursive thing....so much better then most stores plain print letters imo...

You can expect to see the signs up at least for another month or so. Most of the main signs will be taken down when Lord & Taylor fully vacates the space in about a month, with the smaller signs disappearing by late spring.

It's a beautiful logo. Wish that more people still cared about stuff like that.

There were no "save our store" sit ins at either space (or buddist monks setting themselves on fire in protest), but that's probably due to the public's apathy toward just about anything these days.

Lord & Taylor never really caught on in Raleigh, and Toys "R" Us wore out its welcome with a lot of consumers years ago. Sad.

[DigitalSky]

L&T has an awesome logo.

[dmccall]

Lord & Taylor never really caught on in Raleigh, and Toys "R" Us wore out its welcome with a lot of consumers years ago. Sad.

Lord and Taylor never wanted to catch on in Raleigh. They delivered a B-level store, so we gave them an appropriate response. The truth is, that the May Co. ruined that chain long before they came to Raleigh. Those of us who loved it in the early 70's refused to accept the beotchization of what we knew.

The EXACT same thing happened with Pizzaria Uno, BTW. The original Chicago location is incredible, but this product they've franchised is horrible.

There! That was your daily dose of sunshine from me

[BoylanHghts]

The EXACT same thing happened with Pizzaria Uno, BTW. The original Chicago location is incredible, but this product they've franchised is horrible.

I have a friend here who grew up in Chicago. He always raved about the Pizzaria UNO up there and couldn't wait for the one to open in BriarCreek. We went there soon after it opened to check it out. It was terrible, barely above Pizza Hut in quality. He was not happy.

[DanRNC]

A list of great restaurants that were franchised out and destroyed:

The Palm (NYC)

Morton's (Chicago)

Capital Grille (Boston)

McCormick and Schmick's (Seattle)

Q-Shack (Durham)

[StevenRocks]

Lord and Taylor never wanted to catch on in Raleigh. They delivered a B-level store, so we gave them an appropriate response. The truth is, that the May Co. ruined that chain long before they came to Raleigh. Those of us who loved it in the early 70's refused to accept the beotchization of what we knew.

The EXACT same thing happened with Pizzaria Uno, BTW. The original Chicago location is incredible, but this product they've franchised is horrible.

There! That was your daily dose of sunshine from me

I remember going to the Pizzeria Uno in Chicago about ten years ago. I was not impressed. But to be fair, it was probaly a lot better bvack when there was ony "uno" Pizzeria Unos.

Can't argue with your assessment on Lord & Taylor, though in the early '70s, I was a glimmer in my parents' eyes.

[princessangry]

I think it needs to have some shops that arent for the super rich though. I know it has some but it don't have enough to were I have to pay less then 15 dollars for a decent shirt.

and who wants to blow 70 dollars on a plain pair of jeans! I think its rideculous.

I do like the fact it has more types of stores than southpoint mall. southpoint lacks a radio shack, a hobby store, clothes stores with decent prices, and some other things. Southpoint is too aimed at rich spolied teenagers and thier ipods. its a nice mall but sometimes you cant just come there for the experince, you gotta shop right and not have to settle for less for the same amt of money and also settle for the things you don't want as much.

crabtree is allright I just dont like going there at peak hours specially after 3PM! It gets packed and hard to get into and out of sometimes. I like the parking garage idea since it makes for shorter trips from the car to the mall and back. I know the opry mills mall in nasville, tn was bad about parking you had to walk a mile to get into the mall most of the time. Buyt I do like that mall since it had decent prices, nice atmosphere, nice mix of stores. etc...

Edited March 2, 2006 by princessangry

[avery]

I found these images from an architectural firm in Wilmington. They are renderings of Crabtree's conversion on the L&T spot into additional stores.

It is difficult to make out what is going on down the sides in between the parking garage and the actual mall on the back side. I can't tell if that is the parking garage on the right or if they are adding retail there. My guess is that it is the parking garage. It looks like they may add more store fronts to the mall side like Panera and Smith & Hawken currently are. Good luck deciphering it and posting your thoughts. Personally, I really like the interior look. Also, it is nice to see how the Galleria is incorporated into the renderings.

I wonder if they still plan on redoing the service area where Toys R' Us is located? I heard a rumor that Best Buy might occupt that space. It would be a big draw, but the parking situation would really stink. I would rather see them raze the entire complex and do something totally different.

More can be read about the entire project here. The Renaissance at Crabtree

Edited March 8, 2006 by avery

[DigitalSky]

Those renderings are impressive. Best Buy is agressive in expanding (They have 3 or 4 new Charlotte stores planned alone).. so that is a possiblity.

[citiboi27610]

this is random, but I saw one a raleigh transportation planning map a proposed road that would bypass crabtree....it connected in the curve right before NC 50 and then hooked in with 440 right a little before of at the Ridge Rd. exit, has anyone else seen this?

Glenwood would then be used primarily for mall traffic and those going up lead mine, creedmoor, blue ridge and edwards mill, travelling traffic wouldn't be an interference

[avery]

^^^I saw this a good while back. If I recall, the road wrapped around the backside of the mall and connected to the beltline. I imagine it would free up a good amout of congestion from Creedmoor Road to the beltline. I think I last saw this in the Crabtree Small Area Plan on Raleigh's website. I don't know if it is even a speculation at this point anymore.

[ncwebguy]

From the third picture, it looks like they would "straighten" the road that was curved when L&T jutted out, and the second floor would remain above it. The second floor of the space would be the entrance/experience coming from the former Kidds Hill space (the midrises are in the first pic).

The link mentions a valet parking station, even though one already exists by PF Changs and Cheesecake factory. Why the existing "info desk" in center court be coverted to a concierge station I'm not sure. It also mentions a "redesigned food court" though I don't know what form that would take, since it is a bit removed from the L&T space.

The bypass was an idea in the 90s -- one proposal had westbound traffic and "through" eastbound staying north of the mall, eastbound mall traffic and eastbound glenwood and mall exiting 440 traffic flowing south of the mall and catching the beltline there.

I don't know what happened officially, but the McDonalds and a few hotels along Blue Ridge built into the proposed connecting space. The existing road could be widened, but would take some of the Kidds Hill land. Is that italian restaurant right behind the mall still in business? I haven't been that way in a while, but used to bike that way when I was at state (Dixie to Lake Boone to Ridge Road to Glen Eden through the park to Blue Ridge to that service road.)

[avery]

The bypass was an idea in the 90s -- one proposal had westbound traffic and "through" eastbound staying north of the mall, eastbound mall traffic and eastbound glenwood and mall exiting 440 traffic flowing south of the mall and catching the beltline there.

I don't know what happened officially, but the McDonalds and a few hotels along Blue Ridge built into the proposed connecting space. The existing road could be widened, but would take some of the Kidds Hill land. Is that italian restaurant right behind the mall still in business? I haven't been that way in a while, but used to bike that way when I was at state (Dixie to Lake Boone to Ridge Road to Glen Eden through the park to Blue Ridge to that service road.)

I looked at some planning maps and they still have the connector drawn out. The italian restaurant is still there. The old Kidd Hill property where the Crossroads Steakhouse was, is going before the rezoning board. York Residential has big plans for the property for retail/office/residential/hospitality and/or retirement community. The Galleria is also being developed adjacent to it. I don't know where they would put this connector if they ever did. It appears too developed now. There are some huge powerlines that bisect the area from north of where the Soliel is going across Edwards Mill and across Blue Ridge. I don't know if they could squeeze it in here? I do know that Glenwood and Blue Ridge Road will only get worse if these new projects materialize.

[StevenRocks]

I found these images from an architectural firm in Wilmington. They are renderings of Crabtree's conversion on the L&T spot into additional stores.

More can be read about the entire project here. The Renaissance at Crabtree

Simply beautiful.

It's going to take something high impact like this to take Crabtree to the next level.