Station Park Discussion

[Mij]

That's the downside... Soccer is pretty hard on the lawn... This is where a philosophy called maintenance could come into play for the Providence parks (Ok, they don't deserve that much sarcasm, right? )

I've already seen people regularly play pick-up games on the Capitol lawn itself...

- Garris

I dont think soccer is as tough as Polo.

[Lone Ranger]

Two things, Mij.

One, I assume that would be true, but then again polo would only be played once a week, on Sundays, giving the grass some time to rest between bouts, whereas soccer would be played ... probably as often as the CCC allowed it. Probably every night in season, or every other night at least.

Two, I believe the Polo Society -- or whatever it's called -- promised to maintain the lawn in good condition at their own expense. That would be their half of the bargain. But then again, that's only fair: they would just be repairing the damage that they themselves would inflict. I'm not sure they'd be so willing to pay for the upkeep of the grounds if they were going to be forced to maintain the space from the damage inflicted by, y'know, the common folk. On the other 6 days of the week. And stuff.

[Mij]

Two things, Mij.

One, I assume that would be true, but then again polo would only be played once a week, on Sundays, giving the grass some time to rest between bouts, whereas soccer would be played ... probably as often as the CCC allowed it. Probably every night in season, or every other night at least.

Two, I believe the Polo Society -- or whatever it's called -- promised to maintain the lawn in good condition at their own expense. That would be their half of the bargain. But then again, that's only fair: they would just be repairing the damage that they themselves would inflict. I'm not sure they'd be so willing to pay for the upkeep of the grounds if they were going to be forced to maintain the space from the damage inflicted by, y'know, the common folk. On the other 6 days of the week. And stuff.

I do recall the Polo people saying that they wanted to model their venture after The ownership of the Pawtucket Red Sox, Ben Mondor, (spell check) any way, they said keep prices low and offer access to the public on all but the 20 dates a year that polo would be played. Im sure the public access was more of a limited kind, family, picinic, and simple walking. Also im not sure that this would be the best place for a soccer complex. Parking is limited, unless you pay to park at the mall, and thier wer/are better areas. Fox Point being one of the better choices.

[Griswald]

By Fox Point, do you mean the fields off Gano St. near the Dunkin Donuts, or India Point park? Because if you're talking about the latter, the field there is pretty terrible to play on. There's hardly any grass left to maintain. Ive never played at the ones behind Gano, but I agree with Lone Ranger - it would be a lot of fun to play downtown on Francis Street. It would probably attract a different demographic than the Fox Point area, but that's just speculation. Regardless, I would definitely play if they built a field here....

[brick]

By Fox Point, do you mean the fields off Gano St. near the Dunkin Donuts, or India Point park? Because if you're talking about the latter, the field there is pretty terrible to play on. There's hardly any grass left to maintain. Ive never played at the ones behind Gano, but I agree with Lone Ranger - it would be a lot of fun to play downtown on Francis Street. It would probably attract a different demographic than the Fox Point area, but that's just speculation. Regardless, I would definitely play if they built a field here....

the ones behind Gano are fine at the begininng of the season and total crap about two or three weeks into it.

I assume that what Mij is saying is that if you are going to ahve a maintained soccer field, it may as well be at India Point. so the current condition of the field is irrelevant to his point. I like the India Point idea best and always have. Especially with the highway relocation that area is basically going to be the only piece left "cut-off" from the rest of the city.

I agree with others on the infrastructure issues at Station Park.

[Griswald]

Yeah, Station park isn't the best location for the other infrastructures like parking, etc.

I think the site should be open to the public 100% of the time. What about mixed use park, something for everyone - paths, benches, small food vendors (catering to workers during the day), concert stage for outdoor music performances, outdoor bar, sculpture garden, etc (catering to everyone else outside of work).

On a side note, are the fields at Gano for organized leagues or just pick-up? Are there any other places where people just get together to play for fun?

[Cotuit]

I understand that the park would only be used for polo on Sundays, but the weekend is the time when we should be having special events there. Polo every Sunday means the park is occupied and off limits to other uses half the time in effect.

As for soccer. Regardless of Sasaki's total lack of regard for the issue, we need to do something about the area under the relocated 195/95 interchange. A lighted artificial turf soccer field may be a good fit. It would be easily accessible to the Latino community in South Providence, which is obviously a big pool of soccer fans/players. And it would help bring people from SP into the city more. A well lit active area will help lessen the impact of the ramps on the general pedestrian environment.

[matt]

"If it weren't for my horse, I never would have spent that year in college."

-Lewis Black, the White Album.

[chaz200]

Speaking of parking, looking at the design of the field just where would all the trucks and horse trailers be parked for these matches? How many players are on each side? In other words how many trucks and trailers? I also have issue with new development not worrying about parking. The masonic temple project is planning on using the mall garage also. Where are the shoppers going to park as well as polo attendees and hotel guests?

I noticed in their design the whole field is surrounded by what appears to be bushes, that means that pedestrian traffic will be greeted by a green wall. They are charging admission so I assume these bushes will be tall enough to obstruct the view of the field. Do we want a giant green wall lining the street? Also how would someone access the field when not in use, I am assuming only by the one entrance.

One last point, unless the horses are wearing diapers are the Polo people going to clean the field after the match or let nature take it's course? If so how usable will the field be?

I think I said this before but some retail up near the train station, food places, and the rest be a park with seating for lunch. The Nathaniel Greene memorial was a great idea. I just think that some usable green space would be great just to relax in.

[Lone Ranger]

One last point, unless the horses are wearing diapers are the Polo people going to clean the field after the match or let nature take it's course? If so how usable will the field be?

In the Brussat article in which this idea was originally proposed, Brussat made it clear that cleanup would be the responsibility of the Polo Society -- or whatever the heck it's called.

[DaveRPI]

its funny

i think a lot of people in this thread have opinions on what this area should be

but maybe no one here has even used the area now or will use it when whatever gets put there is there

i think the park is a no mans land and people from downtown do not want to walk up the hill to hang out in it when they could just as easily stop in at waterplace... makes more sense

put a small museum and a small ampitheater there with some park-like areas around it and atleast cause some people to want to go there

[Mij]

its funny

i think a lot of people in this thread have opinions on what this area should be

but maybe no one here has even used the area now or will use it when whatever gets put there is there

i think the park is a no mans land and people from downtown do not want to walk up the hill to hang out in it when they could just as easily stop in at waterplace... makes more sense

put a small museum and a small ampitheater there with some park-like areas around it and atleast cause some people to want to go there

The only time I remember this place being used is during bru conserts, X-Games, Gravity Games, and some times for fundraisers. I see this area very comprable to the Hatch shell In Boston. I say unless a better idea come around "let there be polo".

[Lone Ranger]

put a small museum and a small ampitheater there with some park-like areas around it and atleast cause some people to want to go there

So you like my idea with the Temple to Music then?

[jencoleslaw]

one of the things that bums me out about providence and makes me look towards boston is the use of the city's downtown parks. People eat lunch there, get a little fresh air and sun during the work day, there are little cushions for sitting on the grass, and tables and benches and music...

I am not sure what it takes to get providence worker bees out of the buildings to enjoy a city park at lunch. Well, i suppose it would be a city park, downtown. One that is clean and not full of drug dealers and punks...

[glassandsteel]

its funny

i think a lot of people in this thread have opinions on what this area should be

but maybe no one here has even used the area now or will use it when whatever gets put there is there

I agree but personally, I think that the space isn't used because there isn't much use for it. Living on Smith Hill and walking being my main mode of getting to downtown, I think the focus of the space should be to directly connect Waterplace park to the State House and work the park design based on that focus. I often consider cutting through the empty lot (which I'm sure is how it's commonly seen as the Gtech and Waterplace parcels once were) Remembering that this is a pedestrian-oriented city, we must know that for it to be successful it has to also be functional.

In it's current state the park is tempting to cut through to get to the stairs at Waterplace park when you're at the intersection in front of the State House but it's also usually dismissed because of a variety of reasons. It's poor upkeep makes it a constant victim of the weather. I never want to walk through it on rainy or snowy days. Then there's the psychological barrier between it and waterplace in the chain that stretches across along the sidewalk. It's really not that hard to go over and it makes the sidewalk more comfortable (like building to the sidewalk versus a setback or parking lot makes sidewalks more inviting) but when you consider it your brain tells you that it's just as much effort as going to the next light and taking the left and far more awkward. An opening there is needed just for the sake of making it a more tempting option. So that being established, I think the best way to approach the design is to make it a park to cut through. Constant traffic makes a park more inviting.

I'd begin by making paths that start at points where you'd consider cutting through the park and have them interstect in the middle so as to give you all possible options. The points I would consider would be:

Two on Gaspie street. One on the corner in front of the State house and one on the corner next to the Station.

One at a halfway point along Francis street.

Two on American Express st. at opposite corners. One facing each opening to Waterplace park.

Looking at this picture (being the only overhead view I could find), it'd create an odd X with a fifth line extending to Francis st. On the Gaspie side between the entrances, I'd put something that would visually tie in the State house/Masonic Temple area and function for concerts and other events. Along the lines of the Temple to Music but perhaps on a scale that doesn't block the sacred view of the State house or of a different design with similar elements. This would form a focal point other than the center. In the center, I'd like to see perhaps a small fountain of some sort. Anything too large would once again be potentially seen as an obstruction in the path so it's presence should be more along the lines of a pleasant thing to pass by, not a draw in itself. I'd also use some small trees to line the park with instead of bushes because (if spaced well) they allow you to clearly see into and out of the park (which makes it feel safer at night crossings) but they create shade for sitting under. Throw some double sided benches along the walkways and center and you're set.

To wrap this up, I feel it should be light and functional. The focus shouldn't be to bring out of towners in once or twice a week but to bring locals in all the time while having the option of events.

[PVDJack]

I'd begin by making paths that start at points where you'd consider cutting through the park and have them interstect in the middle so as to give you all possible options. The points I would consider would be:

Two on Gaspie street. One on the corner in front of the State house and one on the corner next to the Station.

One at a halfway point along Francis street.

Two on American Express st. at opposite corners. One facing each opening to Waterplace park.

Looking at this picture (being the only overhead view I could find), it'd create an odd X with a fifth line extending to Francis st. On the Gaspie side between the entrances, I'd put something that would visually tie in the State house/Masonic Temple area and function for concerts and other events. Along the lines of the Temple to Music but perhaps on a scale that doesn't block the sacred view of the State house or of a different design with similar elements. This would form a focal point other than the center. In the center, I'd like to see perhaps a small fountain of some sort. Anything too large would once again be potentially seen as an obstruction in the path so it's presence should be more along the lines of a pleasant thing to pass by, not a draw in itself. I'd also use some small trees to line the park with instead of bushes because (if spaced well) they allow you to clearly see into and out of the park (which makes it feel safer at night crossings) but they create shade for sitting under. Throw some double sided benches along the walkways and center and you're set.

To wrap this up, I feel it should be light and functional. The focus shouldn't be to bring out of towners in once or twice a week but to bring locals in all the time while having the option of events.

I like your vision -- although doesn't that location automatically lend itself to out-of-towners? I think it would be mostly sight-seeing tourists, mall shoppers, train travelers, Mariott Renaissance guests, etc. I kind of doubt the State workers would make it over there for their lunch breaks (the mall workers would though). The group of "locals" that I see most benefitting are the future Waterplace residents who are doing pretty well already thank you.

Again, I like the idea, and would support it, but we should be clear about who exactly will be served. In contrast, I could see a re-vamped Burnside park serving many more locals.

Would love to see a Photoshop mock-up of your Station Park design...

[CtownMikey]

I'm really dying when it comes to what may happen with this land. It's such a nice chunk of land.. and with some funding from god knows who, it could become a beautiful cut-through park full of gardens and walkways, street lamps and benches and decorated trash cans, maybe a fountain and statue somewhere as well

[Cotuit]

Here's how I envision it:

Open Exchange Street and Park Row (drop the West) past the train station to Gaspee Street to create real city blocks with actual throughstreets, not the office parkish non-grid we have in Capital Center now.

Rename Finance/American Express Way (whatever-the-hell it's called) Capital Center Avenue (again AmEx Way is sooooooo office park) to give the area some identity through street names. Continue Capital Center Ave. through the Capitol Cove Parcel to Canal Street (this is not part of the current Capitol Cove plan, but who knows what's up with that anyway).

I've named the area in front of the train station Station Plaza. This could become a nice little plaza if Capitol Cove is ever built, once we see a full time tenant at the AmEx Building, and if we see offices as a phase two of Waterplace.

Now, Station Park Capital Common... Capital Common may not be the best name, but Station Park is poor marketing. It's simply not a good name, doesn't make me want to go there. So rename the area for marketing purposes (I've actually seen it labeled "State House Park" on early Capital Center renderings).

The blue square next to the train station is new restraurant retail along the newly extended Exchange Street. Capital Center is badly wanting for city streets, so rather than leaving it open to the park, a new street wall is created. I actually see this having a second level restaurant with large windows overlooking the park and the State House. This building would also contain large restrooms that would be open when there were events going on at the park. At other times, the mall and the train station have bathrooms, and maintaining bathrooms in the park 365 days a year would be too costly.

The purple rectangle behind there is some sort of stage/hatchshell structure. Perhaps when the stage is not being used, the restaurant would set up al fresco seating on it.

The walkway from Exchange to Francis Street is already existing and is an important link between the train station and the mall. It's also an important link between the train station and the Promenade.

The other walkway, from Capital Center Ave. to the Gaspee/Francis intersection is new. As drawn it goes over one of the railway vents, but it could be wrapped around it if the vent can't be relocated or closed off. This walkway is a direct continuation of the stairs coming out of the Waterplace Basin that currently don't go anywhere. This becomes the main link from Waterplace (and via the Union Station Tunnel, Kennedy Plaza) and the State House. This walkway would also serve people coming from the Masonic Temple and the VMA to Waterplace.

At the Capital Center Ave. end of the walkway, there's a Rose Garden (or some other type of formal garden) between the walkway and the AmEx building. On the other side of the walkway is a playground which would be fenced in for safety. In this area would be multiple benches, some with tables for eating/game playing.

Most of the park would be lined with fencing and/or trees. At the corner of Cap. Ctr. Ave. and Francis somesort of arch would mark the entrance to the park in grand style. The arch would create a visual cooridor for the mall-train station corridor.

At Francis and Gaspee, there's no rail way tunnel beneath to worry about, so I'd like to see somesort of water feature mark this entrance. Twin Fountains with wading pools or some such.

The vents are a necessary obstacle in the center of the park. Rather than trying to hide them with weeds, which seems to be the current plan, I say stop trying to hide them. Some creative type out there could have a field day creating somesort of sculptural element out of them. Shafts of light shooting out of them at night would create visual interest in the park at night.

The vast majority of the park remains open lawn for sunbathing and large gatherings. Ample seating is scattered around the edges of the park, especially at the main entrances.

Finally, a new walkway across the front lawn of the State House connects the VMA/Masonic Temple to the train station and Downcity via Exchange Street.

[PVDJack]

Here's how I envision it:

Open Exchange Street and Park Row (drop the West) past the train station to Gaspee Street to create real city blocks with actual throughstreets, not the office parkish non-grid we have in Capital Center now.

Rename Finance/American Express Way (whatever-the-hell it's called) Capital Center Avenue (again AmEx Way is sooooooo office park) to give the area some identity through street names. Continue Capital Center Ave. through the Capitol Cove Parcel to Canal Street (this is not part of the current Capitol Cove plan, but who knows what's up with that anyway).

I've named the area in front of the train station Station Plaza. This could become a nice little plaza if Capitol Cove is ever built, once we see a full time tenant at the AmEx Building, and if we see offices as a phase two of Waterplace.

Now, Station Park Capital Common... Capital Common may not be the best name, but Station Park is poor marketing. It's simply not a good name, doesn't make me want to go there. So rename the area for marketing purposes (I've actually seen it labeled "State House Park" on early Capital Center renderings).

The blue square next to the train station is new restraurant retail along the newly extended Exchange Street. Capital Center is badly wanting for city streets, so rather than leaving it open to the park, a new street wall is created. I actually see this having a second level restaurant with large windows overlooking the park and the State House. This building would also contain large restrooms that would be open when there were events going on at the park. At other times, the mall and the train station have bathrooms, and maintaining bathrooms in the park 365 days a year would be too costly.

The purple rectangle behind there is some sort of stage/hatchshell structure. Perhaps when the stage is not being used, the restaurant would set up al fresco seating on it.

The walkway from Exchange to Francis Street is already existing and is an important link between the train station and the mall. It's also an important link between the train station and the Promenade.

The other walkway, from Capital Center Ave. to the Gaspee/Francis intersection is new. As drawn it goes over one of the railway vents, but it could be wrapped around it if the vent can't be relocated or closed off. This walkway is a direct continuation of the stairs coming out of the Waterplace Basin that currently don't go anywhere. This becomes the main link from Waterplace (and via the Union Station Tunnel, Kennedy Plaza) and the State House. This walkway would also serve people coming from the Masonic Temple and the VMA to Waterplace.

At the Capital Center Ave. end of the walkway, there's a Rose Garden (or some other type of formal garden) between the walkway and the AmEx building. On the other side of the walkway is a playground which would be fenced in for safety. In this area would be multiple benches, some with tables for eating/game playing.

Most of the park would be lined with fencing and/or trees. At the corner of Cap. Ctr. Ave. and Francis somesort of arch would mark the entrance to the park in grand style. The arch would create a visual cooridor for the mall-train station corridor.

At Francis and Gaspee, there's no rail way tunnel beneath to worry about, so I'd like to see somesort of water feature mark this entrance. Twin Fountains with wading pools or some such.

The vents are a necessary obstacle in the center of the park. Rather than trying to hide them with weeds, which seems to be the current plan, I say stop trying to hide them. Some creative type out there could have a field day creating somesort of sculptural element out of them. Shafts of light shooting out of them at night would create visual interest in the park at night.

The vast majority of the park remains open lawn for sunbathing and large gatherings. Ample seating is scattered around the edges of the park, especially at the main entrances.

Finally, a new walkway across the front lawn of the State House connects the VMA/Masonic Temple to the train station and Downcity via Exchange Street.

Love it!

Anyone have a sense of what a project like this would cost?

[Cotuit]

Anyone have a sense of what a project like this would cost?

The most expensive part (and easily dropable since it's not totally needed) is the extension of Park Row to Gaspee Street. The platform that the train station sits on would have to be extended further over the tracks to support the new road, there's not room for it now.

The new restaurant/retail building on Exchange Street sits over the tracks, if the tracks can't support it, it could be turned to hug Gaspee Street and sit above an area where there are not tracks below. There shouldn't be an issue building the stage above the tracks, it wouldn't need to be that heavy.

The Rose Garden could conceivably be free if there were a garden society that wanted to adopt it. I think there's probably ways to get a free playground too or at least enlist volunteers to offset the labour costs of constructing it (though the Parks Dept. Union may have something to say about that).

EDIT: Actually, the most expensive part would probably be the plantings. There's a need for a large number of mature trees along the perifery of the park, especially along Francis Street.

[Recchia]

^I dig it. I've always wanted them at least to extend Exchange Street up to meet Gaspee.

[gregw]

Seems like a reasonable and feasible idea--and much more sensible than the Polo field which would be used like on day a week for part of the year.

Any chance of forwarding this design to the powers that be?

[Liamlunchtray]

I think there's probably ways to get a free playground too or at least enlist volunteers to offset the labour costs of constructing it (though the Parks Dept. Union may have something to say about that).

I wonder if you could get Hasbro to underwrite the playground like they did at Roger Williams. It would be way higher profile in the heart of the city. Seems like a small price to pay for advertising.

[jencoleslaw]

I wonder if you could get Hasbro to underwrite the playground like they did at Roger Williams. It would be way higher profile in the heart of the city. Seems like a small price to pay for advertising.

there still would be the question of who owned it, and therefore, who maintains it. I am not sure the city wants any more parks as it barely cares for the parks it does have, and it probably takes an act of Cod for the state to make a park...

[KBagley]

And it will take an act of God to get a Cod to speak and make this happen... j/k :-)