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The identity of the Triangle


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Somebody has GOT to do something with the two blocks of surface parkings lots adjacent to the museum of history, the archives building, and the governor's mansion. That is really a blight in downtown if anything.

In a perfect world that would be an ideal spot for the NC Musuem of Art. But at least some residential development, perhaps geared towards state government employees would be nice.

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The problem with all these wonderful ideas is that the state just sees dollar signs. They don't see making an investment in the future. There are a number of places the state could build besides Blount St... and that whole area never should have been state land to begin with. The only reason it is, is because...

"Following World War II, the Blount Street neighborhood slid into a gentle decline as older residents died and many houses were subdivided into rooming houses. In the early 1960s, the General Assembly decided to construct a new legislative building one block north of the Capitol, and in 1963 the steel, concrete, and marble design by Edward Durrell Stone was completed. This New Formalism design to house the state's lawmakers set the tone for a new state government complex extending to north of it. This plan envisioned a modernist complex in place of the old nineteenth- and early-twentieth century Blount Street neighborhood that was planned to be bracketed by a north-south expressway through the Oakwood neighborhood. The state began aggressively acquiring houses in the area beginning in 1969, and several were taken down and replaced by surface parking. At the same time, a citizen movement to stop to proposed expressway coalesced in Oakwood, and with that, a drive to have the neighborhood designated as a local historic district. These efforts met with success: in 1975 the Raleigh City Council designated Oakwood as the city's first historic district (the second such designation in the state), and later the proposed expressway was removed from transportation improvement plan maps."

-from Blount St history

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Somebody has GOT to do something with the two blocks of surface parkings lots adjacent to the museum of history, the archives building, and the governor's mansion. That is really a blight in downtown if anything.

In a perfect world that would be an ideal spot for the NC Musuem of Art. But at least some residential development, perhaps geared towards state government employees would be nice.

Isn't that part of the State's Blount St. redevelopment district, recently bid, which is supposed to take those and several other blocks and redevelop them into a mixed use neighborhood with offices, housing, retail, etc.?

I agree that it's a project that will potentiall link several areas of downtown where seeds of activity have started to germinate-- Oakwood, Pilot Mills, Mordecai and Moore Square/Exploris-- and bring a major part of downtown back to life.

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Isn't that part of the State's Blount St. redevelopment district, recently bid, which is supposed to take those and several other blocks and redevelop them into a mixed use neighborhood with offices, housing, retail, etc.?

I agree that it's a project that will potentiall link several areas of downtown where seeds of activity have started to germinate-- Oakwood, Pilot Mills, Mordecai and Moore Square/Exploris-- and bring a major part of downtown back to life.

Those two suface lots are not part of the plan...the redevelopment is all north of Lane Street....these two lots are bounded north/south by Lane/Jones and Jones/Edenton. It would make sense to include these but part of the reasoning behind the State sell off in the Blount area is that the houses have added value but are also due for millions in maintenance costs, which the State can avoid having to pay for if they sell them quick enough. I imagine the State will build on the two other lots at some point as room to expand downtown is running out. Maybe we will get lucky and they will mix use at least the portions facing towards Oakwood.

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Those two suface lots are not part of the plan...the redevelopment is all north of Lane Street....these two lots are bounded north/south by Lane/Jones and Jones/Edenton. It would make sense to include these but part of the reasoning behind the State sell off in the Blount area is that the houses have added value but are also due for millions in maintenance costs, which the State can avoid having to pay for if they sell them quick enough. I imagine the State will build on the two other lots at some point as room to expand downtown is running out. Maybe we will get lucky and they will mix use at least the portions facing towards Oakwood.

Ah.

Then, yes! These surface lots are a menace and must be dealt with!! :angry:

:)

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The one inescapable aspect of Raleigh's identity on a national scale that has not gotten much print on here is the contributions to that identity from Chapel Hill, Durham and RTP. That is what the area is known for in New York, in California, etc. It's not a bad identity to have - it's known for UNC, Duke, the large PhD population and the technology companies. Even though these are largely not Raleigh specific but rather Durham and Chapel Hill, the metropolitan area does have an excellent reputation. Outside of Raleigh, no one is going to compare it to places like Atlanta, Charlotte, Memphis or Nashville, but they're beginning to compare the metro of Raleigh-Durham to those places. Furthermore, Raleigh unlike Nashville, Savannah, Richmond, Winston-Salem, etc. never really had an identity that extended beyond the fact that it was the seat of government. Those cities are or have been historically, culturally, economically more significant and if Raleigh wants to attain their kind of reputation, it should embrace the other locales in its metro area. Duke will always be in Durham, and along with it, its reputation as the city of medicine. Chapel Hill will remain one of the greatest college-towns in America. And, Raleigh will be the capital of one of the fastest growing states. Raleigh should pride itself in being the largest city in that metro, and realize where its strengths lie.

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The one inescapable aspect of Raleigh's identity on a national scale that cannot be escaped and has not gotten much print on here is Chapel Hill, Durham and RTP. That is what the area is known for in New York, in California, etc. It's not a bad identity to have - it's known for UNC, Duke, the large PhD population and the technology companies. Even though these are largely not Raleigh specific but rather Durham and Chapel Hill, the metropolitan area does have an excellent reputation. Outside of Raleigh, no one is going to compare it to places like Atlanta, Charlotte, Memphis or Nashville, but they would compare the metro of Raleigh-Durham to those places. Furthermore, Raleigh unlike Nashville, Savannah, Richmond, Winston-Salem, etc. never really had an identity that extended beyond the fact that it was the seat of government. Those cities are or have been historically, culturally, economically more significant and if Raleigh wants to attain their kind of reputation, it should embrace the other locales in its metro area. Duke will always be in Durham, and along with it, its reputation as the city of medicine. Chapel Hill will remain one of the greatest college-towns in America. And, Raleigh will be the capital of one of the fastest growing states. Raleigh should pride itself in being the largest city in that metro, and realize where its strengths lie.

Excellent summation. From what I've observed from the outside I can tell this is true. It's hard for most people outside of the South - particularly here in the Northeast - to truly appreciate the complex diversity and strengths of North Carolina. Everyone I know who visits NC for the first time is surprised by how progressive and beautiful your state is and I can assure you, word is spreading rapidly as knowledge is shared. People know up here "know" Atlanta, GA like they know New York or Philadelphia or Boston or Chicago. Generally, though, I find that NC - Raleigh-Durham in particular and increasingly Charlotte - are preferred by many over almost any other place in the South except Florida.

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Excellent summation. From what I've observed from the outside I can tell this is true. It's hard for most people outside of the South - particularly here in the Northeast - to truly appreciate the complex diversity and strengths of North Carolina. Everyone I know who visits NC for the first time is surprised by how progressive and beautiful your state is and I can assure you, word is spreading rapidly as knowledge is shared. People know up here "know" Atlanta, GA like they know New York or Philadelphia or Boston or Chicago. Generally, though, I find that NC - Raleigh-Durham in particular and increasingly Charlotte - are preferred by many over almost any other place in the South except Florida.

It's true. Having grown up in the Piedmont Triad (Greensboro area) and having lived in NC all my life, it always amazes me how ignorant people in other regions are about the complexity of the culture here. Ironic in that we Southerners are supposed to be the ignorant ones, right? People know Jesse Helms and assume that we're all queer-bashing hicks with no teeth who live on dirt roads and beat our wives since we can't read.

It's true that NC only recently crossed the threshhold into majority urban (less than 50% of our population lived in urban areas until last year --or year before?), but that doesn't mean that the state isn't home to the oldest public university in the nation, some of the finest institutions of higher learning anywhere, a rich arts tradition, and some of the most gifted writers ever to put pen to paper.

While I can certainly find plenty to cirticize about the way in which Raleigh has grown, and recognize fully that it's nowhere close to perfect, I'm always intrigued to learn that people really think we're so backwoods.

I suppose it's a good think that impression is changing, although I have to admit, part of me likes the advantage of living in a well-kept secret.

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It's true. Having grown up in the Piedmont Triad (Greensboro area) and having lived in NC all my life, it always amazes me how ignorant people in other regions are about the complexity of the culture here. Ironic in that we Southerners are supposed to be the ignorant ones, right? People know Jesse Helms and assume that we're all queer-bashing hicks with no teeth who live on dirt roads and beat our wives since we can't read.

It's true that NC only recently crossed the threshhold into majority urban (less than 50% of our population lived in urban areas until last year --or year before?), but that doesn't mean that the state isn't home to the oldest public university in the nation, some of the finest institutions of higher learning anywhere, a rich arts tradition, and some of the most gifted writers ever to put pen to paper.

While I can certainly find plenty to cirticize about the way in which Raleigh has grown, and recognize fully that it's nowhere close to perfect, I'm always intrigued to learn that people really think we're so backwoods.

I suppose it's a good think that impression is changing, although I have to admit, part of me likes the advantage of living in a well-kept secret.

Frankly, people up here think of NC as the "exception" to the "Southern rule". I don't know why exactly but the most negative stereotypes seem to be applied to Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina and even Virginia. I don't know if this is because people don't know a lot about NC or maybe they know more about the place and know that it is more progressive in many ways than it's neighbors.

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Frankly, people up here think of NC as the "exception" to the "Southern rule". I don't know why exactly but the most negative stereotypes seem to be applied to Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina and even Virginia. I don't know if this is because people don't know a lot about NC or maybe they know more about the place and know that it is more progressive in many ways than it's neighbors.

Funny, in that people down here have always considered NC to be the "valley of humility between two mountains of conceit (VA & SC)." Or, as my relatives from Virginia always put it, "the armpit between Charleston and Richmond." Interesting how perceptions can change over time...

:lol:

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  • 2 months later...

One of my friends was in Raleigh over the weekend for business. He works for in retail and says that there are many national retailers that are looking at Raleigh as a trendsetting place. He says that many companies view the fast growing cities like Raleigh and Phoenix as places of major attention.

Stating that Raleigh, especially ITB, Crabtree, and North Hills, is the place to look for trends and growth, my friend said that many companies are keeping an eye on Raleigh as possible new locations come into play, they are also looking to see how major retailers are faring in Raleigh and the Triangle like Saks, Lacoste, and a lot of the small boutiques.

What are your views as to Raleigh being a fast growing, trendsetting urban city?

What is in store for Raleigh in terms of national exposure, whether it is retail or entertainment or whatever?

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honestly... I don't know about trendsetting... I love Raleigh, but to me it seems like people here are more about following trends than setting them. As far as retail goes... well, Raleigh has been a good test market for things probably because we have well rounded population and economy, not too heavily dependant on one particular socioeconomic class or industry.

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I don't think you are looking for trendsetting populations if you are looking for Saks customers. The people living downtown in the late '80's were trendsetters. The people who kept Oakwood intact in the '70's were also. The Rockford was the trendsetting first nightime establishment on Glenwood South. The stuff coatailing in on the trendsetters is who you want and we have lots and lots of that. We support three regional malls. We have a Starbucks downtown, now that Cup o' Joe and Third Place led the way...numerous other examples of a pioneering trendsetter proving it could be done before the big boys moved in. Even though my heart obviously is with the pioneers, I would say Raleigh is quite ready for any retailer you can dream up.

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Raleigh does have quite a few "young" people here. Young families, recent graduates and a bunch of college students. These groups are often time more trendy. I don't know if Raleigh is home to many trendsetters, but I'm sure it is home to many who follow the trends. I can see how this could be a good market to track how trends tick.

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young people dont translate into trendsetters, neither do "yuppies" who live downtown, etc. A trendsetting type culture comes about organically and i dont really think you'll find your trendsetting kids shopping at malls in the first place. I would say raleigh defanitley has the potentiol to be a trendsetting city in the southeastern region, but i dont realistically see that happening.

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I would think that the term trendsetting is probably loosely used. We have a lot of young people who make higher incomes and are educated so probably fairly well read, so therefore pick up on things faster. Plus many people moving in from larger metros. I am sure we miss some of the things that retailers look at because we live here and are part of it.

Maybe one trendsetting (if you would call it that) is with house wares and furniture. With all the new homes, people are spending a fortune to build their picket-fence dream.

Of course, Trendsetting may be meant by someone in the retail industry as a place where people have $40K worth of credit on their cards and up to $150K worth of equity in their homes to borrow against !!!!

That will make any retail mogel see sideways !!! :wub:

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oh yea we are some trendsetters!! i know over here at state college, we're trying to throw down like none other! you think our basketball team is good now? - you just wait till february! maryland, unc, bc - we're coming at ya, and when its tourney time, its gonna be the cardiac pack all over again! (2OT anyone - WOW!)

i'm not quite sure if yall will get my trendsetting point from that, it sounds better in my head... haha

ok here's a trendsetting example, we lose power on campus for an hour and a half last night, and people use it as an example to party and roll the area between some dorms

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oh yea we are some trendsetters!! i know over here at state college, we're trying to throw down like none other! you think our basketball team is good now? - you just wait till february! maryland, unc, bc - we're coming at ya, and when its tourney time, its gonna be the cardiac pack all over again! (2OT anyone - WOW!)

i'm not quite sure if yall will get my trendsetting point from that, it sounds better in my head... haha

ok here's a trendsetting example, we lose power on campus for an hour and a half last night, and people use it as an example to party and roll the area between some dorms

huh? :blink: what in the world are you talking about? :blink:

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I don't really know. The only thing we really do that's worth exporting is music, but you can find the same quality at the local level in Asheville, Winston-Salem, or Charlotte, as you would in the Triangle.

I am not sure I agree with the comment. I say that respectively. My opinion this with the meaning of a local music scene is not the standard cover band, or 5 guys in a garage no one but the neighbors knows about or the guy in the corner of the bar strumming a 6-string. That can be found everywhere as there are good musicians (and bad) in every city. I look at a trendsetting scene as one that reaches not only local community, but also a regional and even national level. Thus draws the attention of people outside the area per the original post

I see the Triangle as much farther ahead when it comes to music scene and industry. Yes, those other NC cities have local bands that may play some out of town, but not on the level that the Triangle has. Again, I could be wrong. Of course, it depends on what

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If one thing Raleigh/Triangle has going for it (trendsetting wise) its the music scene. The Triad has a decent scene although its more to the emo/screamo side of things. Merge Records and Bifocal Media are also labels based out of Raleigh/Durham. Praxis Studios does a lot of graphic art stuff for record labels and bands as well. Check out the Backyard BBQ on WXYC for local bands as well as WKNC's local music show.

Surprisingly, I was reading somewhere though that there are a lot of fashion designer types in the area as well.

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Is the Triangle a trendsetter? I don't know, but I wouldn't discount it. There was an article about 5 years ago in the Washington Post that was very complimentary about the Triangle...mentioning the music scene, etc. Alot of areas with colleges have decent music scenes, but this place is a cut above I believe.

They (the Post) were going on about how you could eat down home NC BBQ, and then experience the more cosmopolitan side of the area all in a matter of minutes. Unique to be sure. It's certainly an appealing area....with the colleges and all I think people see that it has those ingredients that make a place cool like a Portland, Austin, or San Francisco. As the area continues to boom, we'll see some things happen here many wouldn't have dreamed.

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