The identity of the Triangle

[urbanesq]

Cary at that point will consider just merging with Raleigh.

Never ever gonna happen. Ever.

Physically and culturally, of course, the suburban spread of Cary is indistinguishable from that of Raleigh. If NC's incorporation and annexation laws were different, the collection of planned developments that make up Cary would indeed be part of Raleigh proper.

Economically, Cary will always seek to maintain control over its tax base; just like Apex, Wake Forest, Knightdale, etc., that are all Raleigh suburbs, and in another state wouldn't have been able to become separate bodies politic.

[Transplant]

Maybe Raleigh should Annex Cary, similar to how Cary has been annexing people against their will

[Tayfromcarolina]

Unfortunetly it's too late to annex cary. They had there chance and that moment is gone. Cary's even trying to get their name in that new soccer league expansion team. People from other cities are gonna be. Who are the Cary ....., What is a Cary. When suburbs get to big for their own good, it's a sad thing I tell you.

[sax184]

The Triangle is Gone

Our efforts at "regionalism" have been a mixed bag at best.

I was a longtime proponent of the concept of regionalism. I thought it would work, but apparently it's largely a waste of time. And, just maybe, it's best that the federal government a few years ago decided to place Raleigh and Durham into separate statistical areas.

If that hadn't happened, the two cities wouldn't be crowing today - separately - about their latest national star billings.

In its 2006 rankings of the "best places for business and careers" in the U.S., Forbes magazine places both Durham and Raleigh among the top 10. Unlike some lists that are little more than subjective popularity contests, Forbes uses real data to fashion this list.

Yes, regionalism is dead. Long live Durham. Long live Raleigh.

Be not in doubt, though: It's still OK to hit the freeway and head to Durham, or vice versa, in search of food, culture or entertainment - be it supper at Bullock's, a night with the American Dance Festival or an outing with the Durham Bulls.

And that is as it always should and will be.

We're not ready to rip the word "Triangle" from the flag of our newspaper, but the U.S. government and Forbes magazine are trying to tell us something.

And it's OK.

[DurhamDivaInRaleigh]

Dang. This article is gone. I would have loved to have read it! (And now I'm hungry for Bullock's...)

[DanRNC]

Personally I feel that the current editors at the TBJ are complete idiots. I'm sure the next opinion will be that since we aren't a region we don't need a regional transit plan, a regional growth plan, etc.

[orulz]

I agree. The author of this article is seriously missing the mark.

It's way, way premature to sound the death-knell for the Triangle as a region after a couple bumps in the road and a cold, detached declaration by the census bureau.

Not every attempt at regionalism is going to take off from the start, and not everyone is going to embrace it. But make no mistake: regionalism is building up steam, not losing it. We've only been at it in earnest for a couple decades, and nobody expected the buy-in to be instantaneous.

[Tayfromcarolina]

From what I can tell. The "outsiders" recognize the area by the term triangle and I think it's as much of a name labeler as Silicon Valley, The Triad, or ATL.

[bullcity76]

There are leaders on both sides of the Triangle that are very short-sighted. At the minimum, we should be making steps toward consolidating the bus systems operations. Set up a 5- or 10-year plan and start integrating. Cut out redundant routes, maybe make a "backbone" feeder system, build more express routes w/ park-and-ride from suburban fringes. Maybe one day it would feed into a transit system.

Case #2 is planning...There is no group to determine how development around the CORE (RTP/S. Durham/Cary/Briar Creek) takes place. It's left to the individual towns with weak guidance for TJCOG. Housing/Retail in and around RTP has been overdue. At one point you the closest restaurants were 54/55 which was a nightmare at lunch. The traffic has died down now that more options are available closer to the park. The suburban office park model got the park to where it is now but it's time for a new plan to take it and the Triangle Region to another level.

[dmccall]

The other night i tripped a

nice building called "The Soleil"

a valley named Crabtree

WAL-TER RA-LEIGH

Avery Upchurch, Tom Fetzer and Tom Meeker

First night party, Cheesecake Factory, boom!

You patriotic, oak brewaholic

hate Sen-dek

right? right.

[orulz]

....

??

[sax184]

The other night i tripped a

nice building called "The Soleil"

WAL-TER RA-LEIGH

Avery Upchurch, Tom Fetzer and Tom Meeker

First night party, Cheesecake Factory, boom!

You patriotic, oak brewaholic

hate Sen-dek

right? right.

I think it's time you had some time alone.

[rusthebuss]

Well at least you guys don't have 7 cities fighting with each other.

[MR-2]

The Septagon! The Heptad! I can see it now...

[Transplant]

The Triangle will always be seen as a single element, much as Dallas-Fort Worth or Minneapolis-St. Paul.

That said, I also feel that Raleigh and Durham should procede along their own paths for Mass transit. If Raleigh is dependant on Durham, and vice-versa, neither city will be able to grow to its potential.

[avery]

I do think that the two cities need to work independently of one another too. There should always be some regional planning, but to rely on it would be wrong.

[paletexan]

The other night i tripped a

nice building called "The Soleil"

WAL-TER RA-LEIGH

Avery Upchurch, Tom Fetzer and Tom Meeker

First night party, Cheesecake Factory, boom!

You patriotic, oak brewaholic

hate Sen-dek

right? right.

[ncwebguy]

There is little "duplication" *physically* among mass transit entities in the region. DATA, CAT, Chapel Hill, and C-TRAN bus routes come *close* in some areas, but do not *duplicate*. The only overlap is TTA buses, which covers the "in betweens" -- Morrisville, Apex, South and Extreme East Durham, etc.

TTA was created to serve the large number of people who live in one city and work in another. Unfortunately, a lot of these "out of town" jobs are high paying. This target audience has the money and prefers its personal vehicle as a means of transportation over mass transit. I've been taking the bus the last week or so (threw out back, can't drive) and ridership going between Raleigh and RTP seems to be about 15-20 cumulative people per trip, if that. Even if it was that high for all trips, (which it is not) that is only a few hundred unique riders a day.

The reason there has not been convergence so far (and never may be) is politics. The head of each transit agency likes being the top dog in their respective pound, and don't want to share. There would be a lot of savings with one unified image, one dispach, one repair shop, one entity buying vehicles, etc. but the existing decision makers lose their existing power. Period.

Also the other transit agencies don't want to be lumped in with the shootings on and near Durham's buses, dismissing it as "their problem not ours" issue.

The Triangle moniker makes sense. We have more than seven cities -- Cary, Wake Forest, Garner, Morrisville, Carboro, Hillsboro, Pittsboro, etc. are not included in the "big three" but do not fight because they know they're better off than the cities surrounding Rocky Mount, Fayetville, etc.

Triangle J is supposed to have smoothed over the rough edges of unification, but has nothing to show for its efforts other than the name on the airport.

[pdxheel]

I used to intern for a Congressman who is pretty high up in the House Transportation/Infrastructure Committee and he informed me that one of the major obstacles the Triangle faces is that we have 5 seperate transit agencies who really are not that strategically coordinated. Until the transit agencies come together under one entity it will be hard to get federal funds.

[JDC]

Well at least you guys don't have 7 cities fighting with each other.

Without looking at a map:

Norfolk

Virginia Beach

Newport News

Portsmouth

Chesapeake

What are the other two?

[IBruton]

Without looking at a map:

Norfolk

Virginia Beach

Newport News

Portsmouth

Chesapeake

What are the other two?

Probably Hampton and Suffolk.

[bullcity76]

I used to intern for a Congressman who is pretty high up in the House Transportation/Infrastructure Committee and he informed me that one of the major obstacles the Triangle faces is that we have 5 seperate transit agencies who really are not that strategically coordinated. Until the transit agencies come together under one entity it will be hard to get federal funds.

I forgot to mention that also. As far as shooting at buses, it can happen in Raleigh also. Raleigh and many cities throughout North Carolina and the country (large and small) have a gang problem. In Durham, people may have avoided those particular lines for a while but ridership of the overall system did not drop off.

The main pros for consolidation are related to operations, funding, route coordination (Express, Inter-city, and Multi-modal). The cons are mainly short-sighted and selfish. i.e. local control, system control, political control. I want to think that in highly educated area such as the Triangle a regional transit system could be formed that allowed input into how routes are shaped and fares charged.

[mattm]

Don't forget consolidated purchasing. The triangle metro area would be about the 50th largest transit agency in the country and could command better prices . Also, the existing bus maintenance facilities could specialize and save money that way.

[ncwebguy]

The main topic for the Q section of Sunday's N&O discussed the lack of excitement downtowns in the middle of Triangle towns. It comes on the heels of the chandelier and Plensa debates, but covers the overall perceived dullness of the area

Their discussion board is full of people who have no clue, devloving into an argument about the timing and regulation of alcohol sales.

One of the articles, "A lively city would stand up to "No-It-Alls", does a good job of explaining how not everyone will agree on everything, but that shouldn't keep it from happening.

The Triangle, and Raleigh in particular, is still "small" enough that the area's liberal/conservative reputation is still debatable. I think what makes the area unique is that the liberal/conservative reputation may never be established, welcoming everyone. The blade with one sharp side and one dull side for making sure the cuts go where they should. This two-headed monster is quite confusing -- not all progressivess are liberal and there are plenty of small town thinking NIMBY liberals as well. Also, when outsiders who want to see "downtown" are given a list of places to pick from, they don't "get it" easily.

[DanRNC]

The article by Huler is right on the money. Everything around here gets hijacked and destroyed by back seat bomb throwers/old, self-loathing curmudgeons. The politicos have no spine and allow this happen time after time after time.