Friday Night Brawl in the Mall

[ruchele]

I guess a lot of the question is who the mall is supposed to serve, and why, and who we want to see in downtown Providence, and why. I really believe that if we make downtown (and the mall) first and foremost into a place that is great (and safe!) for Providence residents - rich and poor- it will become a place people from outside Providence want to come to. It could really dynamic, diverse and exciting, an example of the best things about cities. That is, if the people are interested in coming into the city, with all the benefits and social complications that come along. Do we really want to spend our energy trying to make Providence appeal to people who don't like cities?

I don't love the mall- I don't love malls, I don't love that it closes so early, I don't love the parking lot, I don't love having to sometimes push through packs of kids. But I do love that there's someplace downtown for kids to hang out and be teenagers, which there was not for decades. I also love that there's someplace that people from all parts of the city end up kind of crammed together and having to get to know each other a little, at least by sight. Frankly, I think being crammed together with people, even people who make you a little uncomfortable, is kind of what being in the city is about.

(I've only been raped in the Mall parking lot three times this year! What's the big deal? I mean, it's not like the eight times I've been shot by babies in South Providence!)

[Liamlunchtray]

ProJo Letter to the Editor

Sweet baby jesus! This lady is terrifying!!! I was half expecting her to say "Not only is the parking lot cowded, the mall has entirely too many black people"

The good news is that suburban ninnies like this generally stay out of the city. Unless of course they are going to see some high falutin theatre production. Like The Lion King.

[Recchia]

^

I mean, it's good that the mall brings people (like this snotty b!tch) back to the city, but is it really helping if they just get off the highway, park in the dungeon, walk around the mall, and then leave (terrified by the thought of seeing others that don't look/act like them)?

[ruchele]

^

I mean, it's good that the mall brings people (like this snotty b!tch) back to the city, but is it really helping if they just get off the highway, park in the dungeon, walk around the mall, and then leave (terrified by the thought of seeing others that don't look/act like them)?

Exactly- so what's the point of having the mall be all "upscale" for the upscale wallets, if all they do is park at the mall, shop at the mall, eat at the mall and leave? That gives us a traffic problem and not much else.

[rhuck]

^

I mean, it's good that the mall brings people (like this snotty b!tch) back to the city, but is it really helping if they just get off the highway, park in the dungeon, walk around the mall, and then leave (terrified by the thought of seeing others that don't look/act like them)?

I suggest you read the initial article again. If you think it's acceptable that hoodlums of any race break out a fight out in a crowded food court that causes an evacuation, and that you will basically insult and blast anyone who fears something like that, then I really hope you get a reality check soon.

Let's face it; some 3 years ago there was a lot of press about Downtown Providence having a crimespree of muggings. People react to that in a rational way: a reputation like that is hard to get rid of.

No, she won't walk to the mall. Why? Because she lives in Cumberland... I don't know what part of Cumberland (the southern end is very urban, yet there is horrible bus service; I wouldn't blink if she said she'd dare drive to downtown Providence.

If I were her, I'd be just as frightened. I'm on the fourth level of the mall. In the third level, a fight breaks out, and police are responding. A feeling of hoplessness and despiration comes to me as I realize if they came to the fourth level, there would be no obvious means to escape, since there are no exits on that level, except to the food court. Call me a "snotty beotch", but I don't necessarily disagree with that letter.

...on the other hand, however, I've WORKED at Emerald Square Mall on many Friday Nights, and there have been similar fights that have broken out, albeit not enough to close down the mall and evacuate everybody.

[Recchia]

For my money and peace of mind, I will hop onto Route 295 and be at Emerald Square mall in 10 minutes -- where the parking is free!

I doubt she lives in urban Cumberland. And I doubt she has ever ridden a bus. My point is she's using this fight to blast the mall for things that wouldn't matter if you didn't choose to live in suburbia. And her tone comes across very elitist, thats why I called her a snotty beotch.

[Cotuit]

Like it or not, we need the snotty beotches to come to the city and spend money. Even if only 5% of them ever leave the mall and venture into the city at large, those are people who would not come to the city were it not for the mall. It is troubling, that people are viewing the mall as dangerous, regardless of how unfounded one may find those fears.

[brick]

Exactly- so what's the point of having the mall be all "upscale" for the upscale wallets, if all they do is park at the mall, shop at the mall, eat at the mall and leave? That gives us a traffic problem and not much else.

I know a lot of people on this site aspire to be planners or get involved in government and it is vitally important that you understand the value of every opinion before you go off half-cocked slamming people because they don't agree with your point of view.

To answer your rhetoric. They bring money to the retailers. Who in turn pay their leases. Which in turn keeps the mall going. If they have a meal then they tip the waitstaff. etc. etc.

When you consider how much of the blue collar economy in this city is predicated on service (waitresses, clerks, housekeepers, etc.), it is extremely naive and close minded to just dismiss suburbia, especially with a city so small.

[ruchele]

...on the other hand, however, I've WORKED at Emerald Square Mall on many Friday Nights, and there have been similar fights that have broken out,. . .

Right. So the issue is not that fights only happen in Providence, or even that people are any safer in the suburbs. This woman and others like her never come to the mall (or probably the city) anyway, and this incident just gives them a reason to feel justified in their crippling fear of rape, robbery and marauding gangs of colored folks. So fine, let 'em stay in the suburbs, I say. Their loss- I don't think any of our lives are made richer by having people around who think we're all out to rape them in the garage.

[ruchele]

I know a lot of people on this site aspire to be planners or get involved in government and it is vitally important that you understand the value of every opinion before you go off half-cocked slamming people because they don't agree with your point of view.

Huh?

To answer your rhetoric. They bring money to the retailers. Who in turn pay their leases. Which in turn keeps the mall going.

There's no reason for us to be concerned about a private enterprise "keeping going" unless it provides sufficient tax dollars or services and opportunities to the city. I don't care about it "keeping going" just for the heck of it, or just for the pocketbook of the mall owners. I'm concerned about the benefit to the City of Providence, and I think it should benefit the city in the greatest possible way, financially and socially, if that's by being "upscale," "downscale" or whatever. I just don't personally feel that the solution is to be like Copley or other upscale malls.

When you consider how much of the blue collar economy in this city is predicated on service (waitresses, clerks, housekeepers, etc.), it is extremely naive and close minded to just dismiss suburbia, especially with a city so small.

I didn't hear anybody dismiss suburbia. Like I said above, I just think it is a waste of energy to try to attract people to the city who hate cities. There are a lot of people in the suburbs who want good reasons to come downtown. Let's worry about those people, and not people who are too worried about being raped to use a parking garage.

[Cotuit]

Being raped in the parking garage is a valid, and not solely suburban concern. And as a city resident, I have no interest in going to a cinema that I can't be sure isn't going to be a riot scene when certain movies are playing. There are plenty of people in the city, who will take their dollars to the suburbs if safety concerns (real and perceived) are not addressed.

[ruchele]

Being raped in the parking garage is a valid, and not solely suburban concern. And as a city resident, I have no interest in going to a cinema that I can't be sure isn't going to be a riot scene when certain movies are playing. There are plenty of people in the city, who will take their dollars to the suburbs if safety concerns (real and perceived) are not addressed.

Absolutely, the parking garage and everywhere else should feel safe and be safe. But no amount of reality is going to change some people's idea of what "the city" means- scary, hard to park in, full of undesireables. Some people just don't want what cities offer, they want the suburbs. We can't please everyone.

[spanishboy]

i dont understand how the mall owners cant come out with a statement, and apologize, and try to make at ease with people who fear the mall is "dangerous"... thats what bush does all the time.

[ruchele]

i dont understand how the mall owners cant come out with a statement, and apologize, and try to make at ease with people who fear the mall is "dangerous"... thats what bush does all the time.

Good point- the owners' silence makes them look bad.

[brick]

I just don't personally feel that the solution is to be like Copley or other upscale malls.

That's fine but what is your solution? Another run of the mill mall but that has city people? Whoopie. I'd rather have open air markets and places like that for this mingling. A suburban mall clone sitting in the center of Providence isn't really what I would consider a lofty goal. Why do we need the mall to be a place where people get confronted with the reality of a city? Why do we think that all people fit easily into stereotypes? Isn't it at all possible that there are people who feel like this woman but otherwise like to come into the city?

And if there is a perception that the mall is dangerous, you aren't just going to lose the elite. You are going to lose the urban families that I presume you do care about.

I didn't hear anybody dismiss suburbia.

Huh?

- but if you actually lived in the city instead of the suburbs

- I've never heard such a suburban mentality.

- The good news is that suburban ninnies like this generally stay out of the city. Unless of course they are going to see some high falutin theatre production. Like The Lion King.

We are reading the same thread, right?

[markOne]

Ok, I finally have to chime in (long post warning).

I agree with many of you that the PPM is not that scary (I

[Recchia]

You know what MarkOne, I think you made an excellent point. Making people more comfortable with the city is key to its rebirth. However, I don't think that people, like this woman, can take one solitary incident and use it as an excuse to avoid the mall/city/ whatever altogether. Point well taken though.

[ruchele]

Thanks, MarkOne, for your reasonable perspective. You are right on.

[Jenkins]

The other point to note is that this post-movie incident happened at multiple locations throughout the country. It was not a function of it being in Providence, but other forces involved that exist in many places throughout the country. I think some people may get nervous at PPM because they see groupls of young city kids walking around, and if they are from the burbs, may have only seen this before on tv, when those same groups of kids went on to do something illegal.

[ruchele]

We are reading the same thread, right?

We're not discounting suburbia, we're just saying it's the root of all evil. We still want their money, as long as it's green. . .

[brick]

We're not discounting suburbia, we're just saying it's the root of all evil. We still want their money, as long as it's green. . .

Well when you put it that way

On a broader note, I do wish there was a better place for city teens to hang out than the mall. For their sakes as well as my willingness to cater to the elite

[TheAnk]

You need to calm down...What's up with the built-up anger?

Sorry, my bad.. Its just that certain people in here, any time a discussion pops up, they seem to target me because I offer a different point of view, a view of reality they would prefer did not exist.. They would like to view the world from rose colored glass because it feels better that way.. And they try to downtalk others because a: they don't like facts because they don't fit into a left wing agenda or b: saying the facts isn't PC enough for them.. All I am saying is the world isn't as rosy as people think/hope/dream it is.. Nothing against you personally virgo..

[TheAnk]

TheAnk is not generalizing an entire ethnic group, I suggest you brush up on your reading comprehension. He is saying that it is ridiculous to try to remove race from the conversation. If a racial group has a high rate of crime, or drug use, or any other social ill, race has to be part of the discussion when trying to look for ways to curb the problems plaguing that group.

Nowhere has TheAnk said he believes that *all* members of any group exhibit certain attributes.

I'm sure that TheAnk has the means to move off of his street if that is what he chose to do. Rather than putting him down, I think he should be applauded for wanting to better his community.

Thank you, Cotuit.. This is exactly what I am trying to say... Its like looking at a math problem with half the numbers and trying to come up with an answer.. But people jump all over you if you even hint at the fact that some things are disproportionate by race.. I think the media has sold us a lie..

As far as where I live, I love it.. I love the diversity, thats exactly why I live there.. I choose to live there... And my neighbors and tenants have little kids who I worry about..

And to the person claiming I don't know the difference between Dominican or Haitian or Liberian or African American.. I think you need to get out more.. Out of whatever cul-de-sac McMansion you popped out from to post here..

[TheAnk]

When people say that babies in South Providence carry guns and blacks are filling the obituaries, there is a subtle connotation to being biased.

All Souls : A Family Story from Southie

by Michael Patrick MacDonald

I suggest you read it..

And once again, the babies in South Providence was a Dave Chappelle joke reference from a stand up comedy show...

[TheAnk]

Ok, I finally have to chime in (long post warning).

This is a great post, and I agree with every point..