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Major League Baseball in the Triangle?


JDC

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The Bobcats haven't been a bust. They are averaging 16000 in their first 5 home games. For a team with only 3 wins, and one year out of expansion status, the numbers are quite good this year. Last year, the Bobcats had low attendance, not even the worst, but they missed the worst record by one win. After Charlotte had the NBA attendance record for 14 straight years, the city will be back among the best attendance in the NBA when the 'cats get better.

Wish we had a NBA team :cry:

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I don't think either cities have much room to boast on their support of professional sports right now. The Hurricanes are not exactly having league leading attendance and the Charlotte Bobcats are not selling out every game.

The south seems to have less support of its pro teams than the north does of theirs, but that most likely has to do with the migration into the cities where people are already fans of their own teams. Once there is a more stable base I think support should grow for the local pro teams.

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I don't anyone realisitically thinks that Raleigh could support a MLB franchise now. But in 10 years our population will be much higher and still growing.

As far as Las Vegas goes, I think MLB is not going there because of gambling. But the NBA is very likely to move their eventually. I think the NBA All-Star game is in Vegas this year or next.

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Those people that look just at Raleigh's population are fooling themselves. You really need to look at the whole area (Raleigh+Cary+Durham, etc) to determine the size of the market.

Atlanta's population is actually lower than Charlotte's, but the metro area is several times larger.

I think they are looking at the MSA stats. From my understanding Raleigh is only about 1.2 mill for the metro correct? Charlotte is the same as Norfolk at 1.7-1.8 mill for the MSA

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I think it would be neat to be able to "play hooky" for Raleigh, RTP and Durham workers, taking a train to Durham and catch an afternoon baseballl game at an expanded DBAP. However, with Diamond View I and II, the performing arts hall, Durham Freeway, and the American Tobacco campus, it's kind of "boxed in".

I think they built it to be easily expandable to major league size, but it would take some doing. Jackie Robinson would go away, and parking decks would have to be built where the bookending car dealerships are now. The "blue monster" could give way to more ballfield space, and double/triple deck seating all around.

It would be nice if they could move the mudcats to the Dix campus.. they have invested a lot of money in five county stadium, but the crowds still don't go. A ballpark at Dix could be used for other events in the off season, would give an opportunity for an "urban walk" from the convention center/south end to the ball park. Vehicle access could come via an expanded lake wheeler, western blvd, and south wilmington by Ray Price Harley-Davidson.

Unfortunatly, i don't know how Boylan Heights would react, given their history of opposition to Dix redevelopment and just about everything else proposed for their side of downtown.

Major League Baseball has 60+ *home* dates -- hard to fill vs. hockey and basketball's approx. 30-40, and football only has 8, giving each game "event" status. A better fit could be soccer -- SAS soccer stadium sits idle, soccer is big among kids in the area, UNC women's team has drawn a lot of attention to the sport, and it wouldn't take too many fans to support a team one step below MLS, and maybe step up to MLS in 5-10 years. They could even have a temporary TTA stop for game days!

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I just don't think any area in NC or Virginia will be in the running for any more pro sports. We have NHL, NBA, and NFL-thats better than most states. Norfolk is in the geographically screwed area. Too close to DC and Baltimore which are already established sports areas.

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I just don't think any area in NC or Virginia will be in the running for any more pro sports. We have NHL, NBA, and NFL-thats better than most states. Norfolk is in the geographically screwed area. Too close to DC and Baltimore which are already established sports areas.

Well, you could very well be right. The good news is that we already have the greatest spectacle in sport in our own backyard. ACC hoops!

That first annual February matchup between UNC and Duke is something that NO pro sport could match!

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It would be nice if they could move the mudcats to the Dix campus.. they have invested a lot of money in five county stadium, but the crowds still don't go. A ballpark at Dix could be used for other events in the off season, would give an opportunity for an "urban walk" from the convention center/south end to the ball park. Vehicle access could come via an expanded lake wheeler, western blvd, and south wilmington by Ray Price Harley-Davidson.

Unfortunatly, i don't know how Boylan Heights would react, given their history of opposition to Dix redevelopment and just about everything else proposed for their side of downtown.

South Saunders is actually the street that you're thinking of that runs infront of Ray Price Harley and continues down to the intersection at Lake Wheeler Rd. and onward towards I believe South St.

But anyways, to my orginal point for the reply...

I could be wrong here, but I believe the chances of the Mudcats moving any closer to Raleigh than they are now is about near zero. When the team was first brought here, it was supposed to be in Raleigh, but because of some kind of rule regarding minor league baseball teams, you cannot have more than one team in a given radius...ie Durham Bulls. Therefore, the closest place the could put the team to Raleigh was in Zebulon, but it might as well be Nash County b/c if you get on 264 East at Five County Stadium, not even a mile down 264 is the Wake/Nash County line.

I would absolutely love the Mudcats to be in Raleigh and the Dix location would be great, but unless that rule changes about numerous teams in an area, I doubt it'll ever happen. Not sure if even the owners of the Mudcats would be willing to do so considering how much money they've spent building the new Five County Stadium, which I've found to be pretty nice.

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I just don't think any area in NC or Virginia will be in the running for any more pro sports. We have NHL, NBA, and NFL-thats better than most states. Norfolk is in the geographically screwed area. Too close to DC and Baltimore which are already established sports areas.

Well I hope that you are wrong but I fear you are right as well. I don't think that DC or Baltimore has anything to do with it I think its more that we are a cul de sac.

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Well I hope that you are wrong but I fear you are right as well. I don't think that DC or Baltimore has anything to do with it I think its more that we are a cul de sac.

DC and Baltimore are the reasons why Northern Virginia did not get a baseball team and Washington DC did. NoVa (about 1200 sq. miles - Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, Prince William, & Loudoun) has over 2 million people (Over 1 million in Fairfax County alone), but it will never get any major league teams due to the fact it's right next to DC. Richmond is not big enough yet to support a team and Hampton Roads will just have to wait a little longer...I feel that their time will come however.

Geography plays a big part of it.

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DC and Baltimore are the reasons why Northern Virginia did not get a baseball team and Washington DC did. NoVa (about 1200 sq. miles - Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, Prince William, & Loudoun) has over 2 million people (Over 1 million in Fairfax County alone), but it will never get any major league teams due to the fact it's right next to DC. Richmond is not big enough yet to support a team and Hampton Roads will just have to wait a little longer...I feel that their time will come however.

Geography plays a big part of it.

Nova in a sense has teams being that they are part of the metro. Isn't Raleigh the same size as Richmonds MSA?

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I know that NoVA is part of the DC metro area, but I meant that Virginia could have had it's first major league team. Apparently they were very close to moving to VA, but could not get the local governments backing with securing the bonds, and therefore gave DC another chance, even though the DC city counsel is whack.

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I know that NoVA is part of the DC metro area, but I meant that Virginia could have had it's first major league team. Apparently they were very close to moving to VA, but could not get the local governments backing with securing the bonds, and therefore gave DC another chance, even though the DC city counsel is whack.

Actually Norfolk had the best plan and they had owners! this pisses me off that a year from when they said the team had to have a owner and they still don't have a owner!

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I think they are looking at the MSA stats. From my understanding Raleigh is only about 1.2 mill for the metro correct? Charlotte is the same as Norfolk at 1.7-1.8 mill for the MSA

Not that it really matters but I think those numbers are a little bit old. Raleigh-Durham is currently somewhere in the 1.4-1.6 million range (or I've at least seen this several times in the media), and Charlotte is somewhere around 2 mil. right now. A baseball team anywhere in NC right now is probably a pipe dream, but we're having fun with it. That's what it's all about. And based on the population surge, a definite case could be made---at least not too far off.

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Keep in mind what I said in the original post: The Tampa Bay Devil Rays SUCK and usually fill their ballpark up half way with non-Tampa Bay fans. On the plus side for the MLB and the teams that would be playing in Tampa the most (NY Yanks, BoSox, Toronto and Baltimore), they wouldn't have to travel nearly as far.

One thing we have to keep in mind is that cities and metro areas don't grow and shrink at the same rates. Places like Minnesota and Montreal might be on their way out of the top echelon, we may be on our way in (along with places like Vegas and San Antonio). Some states (well one - MA) are actually losing population. I guess I helped out with that by moving down here to Durham.

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Those people that look just at Raleigh's population are fooling themselves. You really need to look at the whole area (Raleigh+Cary+Durham, etc) to determine the size of the market.

Atlanta's population is actually lower than Charlotte's, but the metro area is several times larger.

You're exactly right. Usually people doing that are trying to increase their leverage in an argument. There are tons of cities that have large populations but are smaller metros (Austin, Indianapolis, Columbus, etc.--all of which are larger cities than Charlotte, BTW). The metro area is what counts. One thing people do too often (I do too sometimes) is dismiss things too easily like "no, that could never happen here". Ask yourself this, 20-30 years ago do you think people in Raleigh dreamed the place would get as popular and crowded as it's getting now? I would guess no. But look....It's like my dad mentioned when he visited when I first moved here, "When there are really nice places, people are going to find out about them". Well, this place got discovered and the sky's the limit right now.

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Baseball requires a very large market to work. You have 81 homes games and need to fill a 40k seat stadium= 3 million fans! The economics for a small market won't work for baseball like they do in the NFL (only 8 home games). 3-4 years ago, there was talk of moving the Twins to Greensboro, since it's between Clt and RDU, so it could draw from all three metros. I wouldn't expect baseball in the Carolinas before 10-15 years, and then it would likely be in Clt, or maybe the Triad.

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Baseball will never expand into smaller markets so that means NC will never have an MLB team bottom line-at least not in the next 25-50 years. They have already learned that lesson. How many people are really going to travel all over the state to go to a baseball game. I have been to many MLB games and can say the Durham Bulls games are just as good-well at least you can actually see the game.

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Baseball will never expand into smaller markets so that means NC will never have an MLB team bottom line-at least not in the next 25-50 years. They have already learned that lesson. How many people are really going to travel all over the state to go to a baseball game. I have been to many MLB games and can say the Durham Bulls games are just as good-well at least you can actually see the game.

I disagree. If you think about it within 10 years N.C. is supposedly going to be ranked 10 or 9 in Population. It will be the highest populated state without a baseball team besides NJ.In fact I think it already is. N.C. could very easily support this sport and be very successful. With all the transplants and the high Population base, I would say that this market is screaming for a new Team. You can't look at it as N.C will always be a small market or that MLB will never expand because we all know that expansion will happen sooner or later. We are at the point where almost anything new or expanding will come this way because of the large population base and the level of pay in this area. That is MHO.

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One of North Carolina's "problems" is that there are three major population centers (Charlotte, Triad, & Triangle) with numerous other populated areas throughout the state (Fayetteville, Wilmington, etc.). Most of the other major league teams are in states where there is one major population center, like Atlanta.

We may be one of the most populated in several years, but that might not mean we will have a large enough single market. A baseball team must rely on residents from 45 miles and in. Much further out and people will not go to games on a consistent basis - once a week maybe, but not every day.

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Thats garbage to say that you won't drive 20 minutes to go to a game. If you support it you support it. People drive a hell of a lot more than 20 minutes to go to Bulls games. Patriots stadium is a good 45 minutes outside of Boston and people still go and they consistently sell out. Lousy argument.

As far as the Panthers, seats have to sell out as PSLs require purchase of season tickets every year. If you don't buy the tickets you lose your PSL. When the team sucked no one showed up at the games and attendance was still listed over 70,000. Its amazing how short some people's memories are.

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