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City Walk


vdogg

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ok I searched on loopnet. Looks like the property where citywalk will go has been sold to the city.

2Q 2008 Virginia Beach, VA Commercial/Other (land)

23 Acres $10,800,000

$400,000 - $500,000/Acre

Buyer: City of Virginia Beach

Seller: Michael D. Sifen Inc.

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Yes the city is buying up all the property where the old HQ area which is currently standing. They just finished the The shops at town center which is owned by Sifen. He did not have the money to create a large scale project. So he just renovated the old gateway computer store into upscale retail shops and they refaced the office max building. The land is currently zoned as Very dense property after they approved the Pembroke Implementation plan. They wanted to make sure the land was zoned dense for the city's urban core. The city walk project is nolonger on the boards because its becoming a reality soon as I was told by Sessoms. They have recieved International financing. The project is a billion dollars now. It was 800 Million. but because of construction cost and materials going up. They also reamped the project to make it more attractive. There will be 8 Phases for this project. I will have more information from the Mayor soon. He is sending me more detailed and updated renderings and information. He is very excited this project is in fruition. I also also very thrilled the project has finally came off the boards and will become a reality.

The city trying to buy up property within Pembroke makes sense, the more they can control the easier it will be for them to redevelop the Pembroke area. The City Walk project becoming a reality any time soon and having received "international financing" I have a hard time believing. Plus, I would think it would be too soon in any process if the city is currently purchasing the land to have this already broken down in 8 phases unless the city was planning on using the the plans for what has already been designed there, which has more than likely not even made it past a hand full of computer renderings and initial architectural work.

I am very curious what kind of information you will be getting from the mayor to be posted in a random forum site when I would guess that the mayor would be wanting to keep this under wraps as much as possible until there be some form of actual press coverage on this.

I am not saying you dont know the mayor or anything, I actually knew the last mayor very well because I saw her at so many different functions. But something like this is much bigger than something most mayors would just simply BS around with a buddy about.

So if you can actually provide some concrete information on this beyond the city trying to buy the land, which makes sense, then I might bite more into this. Also, it would be nice for some of you locals to go on some photo shooting sprees of the Pembroke area, that would be nice to see.

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Yeah. And from my understanding. Look how far down the road it took Midtown@Cityview to start construction back in 2008. It just opened its doors in 2009.. Now they are getting ready to start construction on City View II after the bridge is complete. I also believe since we are in such a recession. Land is really cheap. this is the best time to buy land because they know once the economy turns around the land prices are gonna skyrocket. There will be new revenue to the city. The City see's this a opportunity for smart urban growth.. The Citywalk is now being included where the Bills fleamarket or FX building once was. You also need to remember that our Mayor is the President of Towne Bank. He can make magic happen. He is also a big business man and he is all about economic development and Lightrail. Do not be surprised if you see CityWalk breaking ground sometime this summer or fall. I also think they were waiting to see how successful town center would be before they even thought about expanding across independence blvd. And because Town Center is such a destination. Now its time to build and expand the urban center and lure in more highend retail, restraunts and residents to live. The City wanted to start on Phase IV of Town Center. But Armada Hoffler decided to hold off until the economy turns around. Which means this is giving the developer of Citywalk A oppurtunity to start its commencement and bring in some competition for Town Center. Maybe Phase IV will start up again once they see Citywalk breaking ground.

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Yeah. And from my understanding. Look how far down the road it took Midtown@Cityview to start construction back in 2008. It just opened its doors in 2009.. Now they are getting ready to start construction on City View II after the bridge is complete. I also believe since we are in such a recession. Land is really cheap. this is the best time to buy land because they know once the economy turns around the land prices are gonna skyrocket. There will be new revenue to the city. The City see's this a opportunity for smart urban growth.. The Citywalk is now being included where the Bills fleamarket or FX building once was. You also need to remember that our Mayor is the President of Towne Bank. He can make magic happen. He is also a big business man and he is all about economic development and Lightrail. Do not be surprised if you see CityWalk breaking ground sometime this summer or fall. I also think they were waiting to see how successful town center would be before they even thought about expanding across independence blvd. And because Town Center is such a destination. Now its time to build and expand the urban center and lure in more highend retail, restraunts and residents to live. The City wanted to start on Phase IV of Town Center. But Armada Hoffler decided to hold off until the economy turns around. Which means this is giving the developer of Citywalk A oppurtunity to start its commencement and bring in some competition for Town Center. Maybe Phase IV will start up again once they see Citywalk breaking ground.

This all sounds more like wishful thinking because I dont see any of this happening for at least another 3-5 years. Personally I wouldnt even be surprised to hear that City View being delayed by a year or two in hopes of a better economy.

Virginia Beach will probably see another downtown boom, but I would put it in the ballpark of 5-12 years from now before it gets underway again. We are still pretty low with our economy and there still needs some time to even fill back up what was lost. Companies probably wont be expanding for a few more years at the soonest, which means companies will not be looking to move or take over any more office space for some time. Then their is housing, VB will probably see a wave of apartment buildings happen within the downtown over the next 12 years, condos are more than likely going to be more of a back burner thing because of the difficulty of getting financing even just to build a building right now.

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I think your wrong actually. There is a demand for highrise residential. I see them breaking ground this september on CityView II, they are already planning Cityview III which will be another road(Market) from town cennter connecting with bonney where all the low end hotels are. that will be developed into cityview III.

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This all sounds more like wishful thinking because I dont see any of this happening for at least another 3-5 years. Personally I wouldnt even be surprised to hear that City View being delayed by a year or two in hopes of a better economy.

Virginia Beach will probably see another downtown boom, but I would put it in the ballpark of 5-12 years from now before it gets underway again. We are still pretty low with our economy and there still needs some time to even fill back up what was lost. Companies probably wont be expanding for a few more years at the soonest, which means companies will not be looking to move or take over any more office space for some time. Then their is housing, VB will probably see a wave of apartment buildings happen within the downtown over the next 12 years, condos are more than likely going to be more of a back burner thing because of the difficulty of getting financing even just to build a building right now.

I think your wrong actually. There is a demand for highrise residential. I see them breaking ground this september on CityView II, they are already planning Cityview III which will be another road(Market) from town cennter connecting with bonney where all the low end hotels are. that will be developed into cityview III.

the demand is just not there right now. You argue City View breaking gound proves it... If anything it will saturate the market even more. Also we have not heard anything about a cityview III have we? Anyway, no commercial office development will happen for at least 5 years in terms of City Walk (hopefully AH will break ground on the next phase before then). As for residential, I don't see that being build in City Walk until they break ground on more office buildings... I see those two going hand in hadn on that site.

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I think your wrong actually. There is a demand for highrise residential. I see them breaking ground this september on CityView II, they are already planning Cityview III which will be another road(Market) from town cennter connecting with bonney where all the low end hotels are. that will be developed into cityview III.

I am all for you with wanting to see Pembroke get all these projects underway to help build a true downtown for the city, but the truth of the matter is that there is no demand for anything right now. If you are seriously interested in these things, which it sounds like you really want to be, you have to pay attention to all the little details that are going on right now.

First there is the national level that you have to pay attention to, the housing boom is over and will not return for another 5-10 years, which in that time mostly what you will see is failed projects getting bought up and redefined. On the national level, the effect of the bust has affected how developers go about getting money. Instead of promising there is going to be a demand for something, banks now want to see that demand, and even then that might not be enough to secure a loan. Basically we are looking at developers needing to put down 10-25 percent of the cost, which most developers either do not have or are not willing to take a risk like that.

That being condo sales, apartments are a little bit different, much of what was going to be condos has been converted into apartments to get buildings finished. For that, you have to look at what is currently there and what is currently being lived in. A developer is not going to take a risk building a third building before the second one has anyone living in it right now. So we might see City View II begin construction this fall, but don't be surprised if they push the construction date to next spring to be on the safe side.

Obviously there is little demand for new office space right now or the next phase at the TC would be underway, office space demand isn't going to go up until next summer at the earliest, unless there is a huge boom for profits in the unforeseen future. Currently the things to pay attention to is the storefronts, based off of what is moving into the area, what has left the area, and what has been sitting vacant will give you a better idea of the demand for retail. Once you start seeing the demand for retail rise, then there will be some grounds for new development, but even with that I would side with caution and predict that any major growths with retail will happen after the Christmas season if profits are good for retail companies. You have to remember that just because things might look good in VB, it doesn't mean things are good for a national retail chain.

Hotel demand is at a very low point all over the country right now, even if hotels are selling out, they are selling out at room costs that are much lower than they were two years ago which mean hotels are not making as much money as they were in the past years, therefore I don't see any hotels being built in Pembroke for at least another 5-7 years. The aLoft will probably be the only exception, but even that I don't see getting constructed for another couple years at least.

Currently the only things that are expanding is healthcare and education. Which being that there is no hospital in the downtown boundary, there will probably be no major construction involving that. If you pay attention to things like TCC or other independent colleges, you might see one buying up land within Pembroke for a future urban campus, but that is a bit of a far fetched idea that would actually need some concert evidence of this happening to be something I would run with.

You are welcome to listen to any of these ideas, seeing that much of it is based on trends that have happened in past economic downturns, the last major one (not including the damages Bush has done to our country) was the commercial downturn back in the late 80s which took about 6 years before it really started to bounce back thanks to the improvements Clinton did for the budget and job market. I would guess that it will be during the beginning of Obama's second term before we start to see the true effects of what he will do throughout his first term. The new push for regulations are going to be what will have the biggest effect on how we rebound, but I would prefer a softer rebound than an open market with little regulations that got us into this mess to begin with.

Obviously all of this is predictions without taking into account any natural or man made disasters which as we have proven can happen at any time. Hell for all I know, VB could be hit with a powerful hurricane that would take down all the shoddy construction that happened in the 80s, which would devastate the region. But provided none of that happens, I would say in about 2-3 years from now, you will begin to see signs of good things happening again for the downtown, then about 5-10 years now will probably experience a mini boom to the area, much like what has already been experienced with the TC construction so far.

*not editing any political undertoning that you might see in this, that is a personal opinion that I am not to concerned with if you agree with or not, the entire post is about the economy and what will and when it will get built, which politics do play a part in. Sorry if that bothers anyone.

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You are welcome to listen to any of these ideas, seeing that much of it is based on trends that have happened in past economic downturns, the last major one (not including the damages Bush has done to our country) was the commercial downturn back in the late 80s which took about 6 years before it really started to bounce back thanks to the improvements Clinton did for the budget and job market. I would guess that it will be during the beginning of Obama's second term before we start to see the true effects of what he will do throughout his first term. The new push for regulations are going to be what will have the biggest effect on how we rebound, but I would prefer a softer rebound than an open market with little regulations that got us into this mess to begin with.

Nice way of sliding into politics... I suggest you edit that post before it turns into a heated debate. All I have to say is one party wanted to regulate the banking industry and called out the future bubbles during a certain Clinton adminstration... and Clinton's party shot it down (morgage/lending market that was not regulated is what caused the bubble to burst once people went under on their homes). That, and if Obama has a second term, I'm sorry but the only thing that will be growing is national debt and welfare...

That's my response to the not so slight political undertones in your last post; I suggest you keep politics out of these forums.

PS: Sorry VDogg/moderators... off topic, I know...

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Listen, Noone can predict what is going to happen tomorrow or next month. We just never know when the market will turn around with a huge boom of development. It all depends on the economy. So how does anyone know what might happen today? As far as we know. they could be approving the plans as we speak. But from what the mayor was telling me on face book. Soon could be this year or next year.. As you can see. Cityview's plans came out in 2004 and was hidden for awhile until 2006 when they broke ground on midtown at cityview and now look what year it is. 2010. And they are still talking about cityview and the next phase. So I wish people would stop thinking they know everything. Just because our economy is in a hole right now does not mean we will not get more development.. Beach Centre at the oceanfront is a living fact. They are building another town center project at 31st/laskin with the economy the way it is. And from what I hear. The leasing space is filled for the retail/restraunt portion of the project and new upscale apartments with a cabana/pool/hot tub on the roof facing the ocean. Summerhouse Apartments

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  • 1 month later...

Yeah Citywalk is still Alive!

of course it is in a sense, something will eventually be built on that site as long as it is an available site, and it will more than likely be seen as an addition to the Town Center in order to help the downtown grow....but if you mean it is still alive because there is something that is going to begin construction soon....that would require actual information.

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Yeah it looks like they have something up their sleeves. The Bingo Hall was demolished. So from Horace Ave East to Indepdenence is pretty much nothing but vacant land except the Town Center Market Place and the Wachovia Bank. I think something ambitious is getting ready to breakground

exactly. you think but no one else does. nothing is going to be built right now, not unitl the banks start lending heavily again and prospective building can return to a prosperous business method. until then, and that is a long way away, nothing will be built.

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Yeah it looks like they have something up their sleeves. The Bingo Hall was demolished. So from Horace Ave East to Indepdenence is pretty much nothing but vacant land except the Town Center Market Place and the Wachovia Bank. I think something ambitious is getting ready to breakground

The tearing down of buildings doesn't really mean anything. It could simply been a move to reduce any tax risk or to have just land to work with. It is much easier selling property when there is nothing on the site. When we hear that the developers of this site starts to get funding, and we start to hear of companies signing on to move their, then there is a chance of this starting...but I am gonna repeat what I have been saying, do not expect anything new being built at City Walk for a couple more summers.

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  • 2 years later...

Thank you Harry for your message and interest in the project. We were hired by a developer many years ago to provide conceptual designs for the property. The developer at the time did not obtain funding to further the project. The project has changed hands and we are no longer contracted or involved at this time.

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  • 6 months later...

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