beyond downtown (but not too far)

[mjcatl2]

I think that there are two areas that make sense for downtown expansion, the Northside and Uptown - and to a smaller extent, the Southside, but really Station Square.

While I am excited about all that is happening on the North Shore, it is too bad that this area was not seen as an extension of downtown and built up slower, but with taller buildings. I realize that large towers were unlikely, but a couple in the teens - twenties would have looked great on the river and same goes with the Lincoln apartments there - they should have been urban apartments, but suburban.

It would be even better if Allegheny Ctr was flattened and then a new home for the Pens went in its place. There is room in the adjacent area for offices, a hotel and restaurants etc.

Where the old Igloo sits, a dense mid rise development, maybe known as Uptown Ctr would go up. A logical step down in size from dowtown, but still a big development.

I think that the Uptown Ctr would have a nice large hotel on its western edge, closest to downtown, perhaps an office tower or two... but the vast sea of parking lots would be a dense neighborhood of apartments and condos. The old hospital would be raised and another mixed use development could go there...

wow, now you really have an Uptown...

I doubt any of this is going to happen, but Duquesne is going to develop a block or two on Forbes and that whole area east to the Birmingham bridge could be - could be an incredible city neighborhood, dense with condo towers and some upscale townhomes. Mixed with some offices and retail all along Fifth-Forbes in this corridor and more residential on the hill east of Mercy.

Station Square should be the home of any casino the city builds. It makes sense, the area already is an obvious tourist trap and does have plentiful dining opportunities and a great view. Why waste downtown space unless it's going to work, really going to work out?

West of the amphitheater, there seems to be some room for a decent size apartment building or two.... this is prime area and should be developed.

The area between Station Square and 10th is another area that could be potential for near downtown related development. I know that some activity is there, but certainly it could be part of that true extension.

the remainder of the Southside is as it should be, a great city neighborhood. I have mixed feelings about the Southside Works, but overall, it's a postive development.

Some of these thoughts I know I have shared before, but seeing a couple articles made want to put the downtown developments together and then of course all of the other thoughts come out again...

[PghUSA]

I tend to agree with all that mj, the southside works though I am a big fan of, we NEED some upscale shopping close to downtown and the area was too big for any other kind of development.

I am a big fan too of your position that we need some mid-rises and have to get away with all this newfangled "downtown towers (Mellon, PNC, the new hotels and condos along Penn and firstside) should be about 15 floors max, the towers on the north and southshores and along the bluff and technology center should only be 6 to 5 floors (equitable, alcoa, sunoco, etc.). I want some Hong Kong of Applachia here, great water all around the city and shining and gleaming glass and steel on the waters edge that can take your breath away!

[urbanophile]

I think that there are two areas that make sense for downtown expansion, the Northside and Uptown - and to a smaller extent, the Southside, but really Station Square.

Be careful what you wish for. Building up the North/South Sides will further re-distribute jobs outside of Downtown and further hurt Downtown. One major reason why Downtown Pittsburgh has held up better than Downtown Cleveland and the downtowns of other like-sized cities despite having less than 10,000 residents is because it has a high concentration of office workers. I personally think the relocation of Alcoa to the North Side was a pretty major blow. Then again, I know if they hadn't relocated to the North Side, they would have likely relocated to Manhattan (and many of thier execs have already done so anyway) so, in the end, their relocation to the North Side was a good compromise.

It would be even better if Allegheny Ctr was flattened and then a new home for the Pens went in its place. There is room in the adjacent area for offices, a hotel and restaurants etc.

I think a rebuild of the urban fabric is needed there. A new arena there would further decimate the urban fabric of the North Side (already devastated by highways and the stadiums).

Where the old Igloo sits, a dense mid rise development, maybe known as Uptown Ctr would go up. A logical step down in size from dowtown, but still a big development.

They treid doing something like that in the late 60's with Chatam Center. It didn't work because people felt it was too isolated from Downtown. I think what probably should be done is a redevelopment of the "Midtown Corridor" (Fifth/Forbes between Downtown and Oakland). This area is priemd for development because it is between two major employment centers. In fact, it should be primed for residential development because of tis easy access to these areas. Perhaps they should run the T above-ground up Fifth and Forbes to Oakland. I think they can do it as a surface trolley since traffic on Fifth and Forbes is light in this area since msot through traffic goes on the Boulevards (Allies and Bigelow) instead. This would further stimulate development. The one major problem, however, is the ability to sell residential development to people who have a negative association with the Hill District. Also, I'm sure old time residents of the Hill will not be too happy either.

[tooluther]

Someone really needs to do some master planning on the north side. Esp. Allegheny Center Mall. I think it would be cool if National City built a new space for their client service center (since that is the only thing left in the mall I think). Then the mall, and maybe some of the nasty apartment buildings could be dropped to make room for a "new allegheny city".

I think the north side is a very cool area, but there needs to be more connectivity between all the neighborhoods. Real T service would help (not that I'm opposed to the current expansion, I just don't think it goes far enough). Or maybe street car service there as well.

I think development in the Hill will eventualy start up on its own, but that street car plan (and eliminating all the damn busses) would be a HUGE step in the right direction.

[PghUSA]

I agree Urban and Tooluther, the "connectivity" issue is key, as you mentioned urban we don't want the SSW or Oakland or the northshore et. al. "draining" downtown but instead serving as a nice alternative to it. I would like to see expanded T-service to the interior of the north side possibly using the new convention center link over the rail bridge and up even beyond AC to Perry hilltop area.

There should be some serious masterplanning going on and emphasis on mixed developments (residential/commerical/office/entertainment/retail) and hubbing it all through and into downtown.

I like some of those specific ideas you have both mentioned.