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Which tower would you live in given the chance


urbanvb

Poll: Which tower would you live in  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you rather live in Granby Tower or The Westin?

    • Granby Tower
      34
    • Westin Inn
      6
    • Not sure
      0


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First of all, norfolk southern is a railing company so the blue collar jobs they bring to the area is very very minimal for a usual fortune five hundred company, so i dont think the presence of norfolk southern is a real big swing in either direction. And yes, Norfolk is the "banking center" of the area right now, but its not as if they are making new headquarters for these banking companies, they are just simply filling in space. At the time of these company relocations, if virginia beach could have offered space, things may be different, but at the time virginia beach didnt have anything. My arguement still rests on potential and i feel va beach has more potential.

And on russ's note on class, i hope that norfolk's projects will make the area much more classy as i expect it will. But the towncenter area is being built to be an upscale urban environment, which for now gives it a more classy feel.

"classy"? maybe. artificial? yes. There's something about Town Center that exudes a bland, plain, boring feel, such as a doctor's office. The buildings look the same IMO. While I appreciate things that are planned, I feel Town Center has little culture. A performing arts center will help slightly, but culture is not built overnight. As for potential, why does VB have more potential? DT norfolk has more towers planned and under constuction than Town Center has planned, under construction, and already completed combined. It also has an up and coming cruise business, "pro"sports (and potential for PRO sports), and Light Rail. Now THAT is potential.

Also, what sets Town Center apart from other cities? Its "Main Street" with "Central Park" and white buildings?

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Can I vote for Ganby again?

DT is and will remain head & shoulders above the TC. The TC is a wonderful project, but it will take many, many years to get where Norfolk is now. By then Norfolk will have progressed that much further. A few towers, chain restaurants & stores don't make a TRUE downtown.

Will Tysons Corner ever be better or more urban than D.C.? No, never.

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First off, Virginia Beach's tourist income far exceeds and always will far exceed anything Norfolk takes in with its cruise business and is growing much more than norfolk's cruise business ever will. And until Norfolk gets a pro sports team, that arguement is completely null and void. No team wants to come to a are where the military dominates because they dont see it as a solid enough fan base. Norfolk's population can't sustain a team right now, and a lot of Norfolk's chances at a team rests on the fact that Virginia Beach is right next door. As for the light rail project, it is wonderful that Norfolk is getting it and if it is a success(which we all hope it will be), then Virginia Beach and the rest of the region will jump on the bandwagon very quickly. As for Norfolk having more towers and such planned, not even counting city walk, town center has a new 23 story office building planned, the entire city view/cornerstone project, the pembroke office building, and the whole barnes and noble property which they havent even planned for yet. Town Center has as much potential if not more than Norfolk does. And whether it is artificially classy or not, it is still class with its marble meeting place and fountain along with upscale stores and restauants as compared to norfolk.

And right now there isnt a whole lot setting Town Center apart from any other city granted, but on that note, what sets Downtown Norfolk from any other city. It is a couple of mid to highrise buildings which arent aesthetically appealing in any way(especially the BoA building which completely dominates the skyline), and an infastructure which is in desperate need of a facelift.

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First off, Virginia Beach's tourist income far exceeds and always will far exceed anything Norfolk takes in with its cruise business and is growing much more than norfolk's cruise business ever will. And until Norfolk gets a pro sports team, that arguement is completely null and void. No team wants to come to a are where the military dominates because they dont see it as a solid enough fan base. Norfolk's population can't sustain a team right now, and a lot of Norfolk's chances at a team rests on the fact that Virginia Beach is right next door. As for the light rail project, it is wonderful that Norfolk is getting it and if it is a success(which we all hope it will be), then Virginia Beach and the rest of the region will jump on the bandwagon very quickly. As for Norfolk having more towers and such planned, not even counting city walk, town center has a new 23 story office building planned, the entire city view/cornerstone project, the pembroke office building, and the whole barnes and noble property which they havent even planned for yet. Town Center has as much potential if not more than Norfolk does. And whether it is artificially classy or not, it is still class with its marble meeting place and fountain along with upscale stores and restauants as compared to norfolk.

And right now there isnt a whole lot setting Town Center apart from any other city granted, but on that note, what sets Downtown Norfolk from any other city. It is a couple of mid to highrise buildings which arent aesthetically appealing in any way(especially the BoA building which completely dominates the skyline), and an infastructure which is in desperate need of a facelift.

OK. This is the exact thing of city v city bickering that vdogg was earlier eluding to. I don't think Norfolk is better than Virginia Beach, nor is Virginia Beach better than Norfolk. They both have their pros and cons. While I think Norfolk has a major edge over Virginia Beach (in terms of the DT atmosphere), Virginia Beach isn't looking to create an urban CBD... they're looking to sprout up some hardcore high-rise apartment towers (note that most of the development in the Pembroke area is residential... those people will likely not work in a highrise in Virginia Beach, seeing as how there is currently only 2 high rise office buildings in the entire city).

And in all fairness... you can't attack Norfolk on the basis of transportation infrastructure. No city or county in Hampton Roads has the right to criticize another for that because, seriously, look around. It's no better on the other side of the proverbial hill.

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If I were given a chance, I'd do the Granby, since it cuts down on the commute to Old Dominion by 30 minutes (I live 40 minutes from the campus and need to cut down on gas). That would be the equivalent to taking the entire I-264 off of the driving. I would have to say commuting on I-264 is a pain in the neck due to all of the traffic. <_<

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First off, Virginia Beach's tourist income far exceeds and always will far exceed anything Norfolk takes in with its cruise business and is growing much more than norfolk's cruise business ever will. And until Norfolk gets a pro sports team, that arguement is completely null and void. No team wants to come to a are where the military dominates because they dont see it as a solid enough fan base. Norfolk's population can't sustain a team right now, and a lot of Norfolk's chances at a team rests on the fact that Virginia Beach is right next door. As for the light rail project, it is wonderful that Norfolk is getting it and if it is a success(which we all hope it will be), then Virginia Beach and the rest of the region will jump on the bandwagon very quickly. As for Norfolk having more towers and such planned, not even counting city walk, town center has a new 23 story office building planned, the entire city view/cornerstone project, the pembroke office building, and the whole barnes and noble property which they havent even planned for yet. Town Center has as much potential if not more than Norfolk does. And whether it is artificially classy or not, it is still class with its marble meeting place and fountain along with upscale stores and restauants as compared to norfolk.

And right now there isnt a whole lot setting Town Center apart from any other city granted, but on that note, what sets Downtown Norfolk from any other city. It is a couple of mid to highrise buildings which arent aesthetically appealing in any way(especially the BoA building which completely dominates the skyline), and an infastructure which is in desperate need of a facelift.

As for the pro sports teams, I was referring to the minor league teams it has already, and the potential for our AREA to get a real pro team. You don't think sports teams add to the culture and life of a city at all? Certainly it ups the potential of an area. And sure we need VB's population, but it isn't everything. I would rather take the other million in Hampton Roads. Norfolk is set apart by its history. Norfolk has buildings that date back hundreds of years. It is also set apart by its unique waterfront museum (nauticus) and varied architecture. Bank of America completely dominates? Doesn't Dominon Tower? It is set apart from the rest and taller than all the rest.

As for the tower development, Norfolk has 7 towers planned/under construction that are more than 15 stories.

Trader

Harbor Heights

Harbor's Edge

Hilton Hotel

Granby Tower

Church Street Tower

Kotarides Tower

and plus, we have all of Downtown Plaza to develop, a new office tower, and a second Harbor's Edge that are in consideration, as well as other plans for Fort Norfolk. We are talking at least 10 new 15+ story buildings in the next 10 years.

Town Center has 4 towers under construction/planned that will be more than 15 stories.

Westin

City Walk (2 towers)

New office building

City View does not have any towers, if I remember correctly. The rest of the plans are basically speculation, almost like Norfolk's plans for Downtown Plaza, which is why I didn't include them in the original count.

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City View does not have any towers, if I remember correctly. The rest of the plans are basically speculation, almost like Norfolk's plans for Downtown Plaza, which is why I didn't include them in the original count.

That is incorrect. There are approximately 300 apartment units planned for phase A to be encompassed in a 15 story building. I would hesitate to call it a tower because it has the girth of the cosmopolitan but it is 15 stories none the less.

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That is incorrect. There are approximately 300 apartment units planned for phase A to be encompassed in a 15 story building. I would hesitate to call it a tower because it has the girth of the cosmopolitan but it is 15 stories none the less.

hey vdogg is the 15 stories for city view new info? If not, can you show me in some rendering or somewhere because none of the renderings we have or cmss's site show anything that resembles a 15 story building for phase A, or for any phase for that matter.

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wow i make number four in favor of living at the Westin. woo. Downtown Norfolk is of course more urban than VaBeach, so is more appealing in that regard...but I just flat out like the Westin more than Granby. TC does have that artificial, Disney-esque feel to it, but it's just to be expected at this point. There are a lot more developments coming to the pembroke area, and with that i think it will become more of a convincing "downtown". granted, vabeach doesn't have the same level of "culture" as Norfolk, but i definitely think anyone would be mistaken to believe it is without any whatsoever. during the summer months, the oceanfront is just overflowing with people and events, and i oftentimes find myself enjoying experiences there much more than DT norfolk. there's a lot about VaBeach that is just so often ignored...we do have a huge state park that i absolutely love visiting...there's the contemporary art museum, soon we'll have the performing arts center, the northern part of the resort strip is beginning to get more diverse developments, i can't WAIT to see the ocean beach club come to completion. I was wandering around TC the other night, found myself ontop of the parking deck of Dick's, and tried to envision what the area would look like years down the line. it definitely has the potential to become something great, and living in the Westin would be practically at the center of it all. of course, i'm biased being a vabeach native, and it's exciting to see all this happening around me. i wouldn't think of vabeach as being a glorified county at all...of course it's sprawling, but i think that has more to do with the time period in which it started getting developed...norfolk has the traditional dt because of it starting so long ago...vabeach as we know it today was just unfortunate in that suburbs were the thing people were interested in. with the trends showing more people going back to dense cities, our own landscape will change with it. and they may only be hotels, but don't forget to count shore drive and atlantic ave. when it comes to taller buildings...during the on-season, i sometimes feel atlantic is more of our dt then tc will be, but i realise i'm getting off topic and ranting. done now.

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First of all, you can belittle it as a glorified county all you want, but the fact of the matter is that virginia beach is the 38th biggest city in the nation, so Id love to know where Norfolk is ranked on that. I guess we are some county huh. To make any comparison between DC and Norfolk culturally or economically is just ridiculous and comparing virgina beach to tyson is the same.

That tacky ocean front has about ten times the culture of downtown norfolk in the summer time and offers a lot more to do than norfolk. Not to mention the fact that the "disneyland" TC has more class in seventeen blocks than all of downtown norfolk. If you want to start attacking virgina beach's suburbs and architecture, dont look too far from downtown norfolk for some gross high rises and lousy architecture(BB&T, BoA, City Hall). Not to mention there is tons more money floating around Virginia Beach's "sixty suburbs" than all of norfolk.

And yes, Norfolk has more history than Virginia Beach. I mean, it was only completely torn down because it was more of a slum than an actual downtown, but I guess every city has history to be proud of, so ok, Norfolk wins with the history.

On the housing issue, Norfolk has roughly 2-3000 people living downtown(if even that), and Virginia Beach has a goal of 5000(which is the same goal of norfolk). And I was also more referring to the condos than I was actual housing, freemason isnt exactly a mecca for high end or high rise living. I guess if we want to talk about freemason as downtown living, than I guess we can call all of the thalia neighborhoods as downtown living, in which case virginia beach would scorch norfolk in downtown living.

First of all, VB has about 3 times the land area of Norfolk, but less than double the population. I don't see how can you go comparing population like that. The 2000-3000 number was old and from years ago, i suspect it is much higher. Freemason IS in DT norfolk. TC has about.....zero people in its 17 "classy" blocks. Even after Westin and Cosmo, it may only have 1000 max. As for lousy architecture, the three buildings you mentioned may not be the best, but I hardly think the AH tower or the cosmo are spectactular examples of vintage VB architecture. Norfolk has many unique and old towers, such as the Norfolk Southern Tower, the Royster building, all of Granby street, and tons of old houses in Ghent etc. Downtown Norfolk has no class? So I guess you prefer chain restaurants/stores you can find ANYWHERE else in the world than to the dozens of unique establishments found all across downtown Norfolk. And lets not forget the world class musuems (Nauticus, Chrysler Museum, D'Art Center, Battleship Wisconsin) and the Harrison Opera house and Chrysler Hall. What does TC have in that category? Sure, an artificial "performing arts center" (very original name) may be coming, but its not built yet.

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First of all, VB has about 3 times the land area of Norfolk, but less than double the population. I don't see how can you go comparing population like that. The 2000-3000 number was old and from years ago, i suspect it is much higher. Freemason IS in DT norfolk. TC has about.....zero people in its 17 "classy" blocks. Even after Westin and Cosmo, it may only have 1000 max. As for lousy architecture, the three buildings you mentioned may not be the best, but I hardly think the AH tower or the cosmo are spectactular examples of vintage VB architecture. Norfolk has many unique and old towers, such as the Norfolk Southern Tower, the Royster building, all of Granby street, and tons of old houses in Ghent etc. Downtown Norfolk has no class? So I guess you prefer chain restaurants/stores you can find ANYWHERE else in the world than to the dozens of unique establishments found all across downtown Norfolk. And lets not forget the world class musuems (Nauticus, Chrysler Museum, D'Art Center, Battleship Wisconsin) and the Harrison Opera house and Chrysler Hall. What does TC have in that category? Sure, an artificial "performing arts center" (very original name) may be coming, but its not built yet.

In a recent article, it was stated Norfolk wants to get 5000 people living in the downtown area, which is the same as Virginia Beach is trying to do. And yes, AH and Cosmo arent exactly the cream of the crop in archicteture, but they are more asthetically pleasing than the buildings i named. Not to mention 150 West Main has the same problem of a giant parking garage just like AH does(damn you CMSS architects). As for unique and old towers, I would hardly call the Norfolk Southern Tower which was built in 1989 old or unique. The Royster building is gorgeous so I have nothing to argue there. As for most of granby, it is a great street, but it is all low rises, not towers by any stroke of the imagination. But agreed, it is a very nice street.

On the world class museums side, if im not mistaken, Nauticus was due to close for a long time and was making no profit. Its resergence was the battleship Wisconsin which is part of nauticus, not a separate entity and it still doesnt get nearly the amount of interest Norfolk hoped for. Chrysler Hall and Museum are nice, sure, however they get almost no attention and no major names so world class isnt exactly the best words to describe them.

On the note of the performing arts center, virgina beach is set to display the magna carta in 2007, so they arent lagging behind as much as you would like.

Anyway, this conversation is getting really stupid considering I have to defend Virginia Beach by attacking Norfolk, I city which I actually happen to be a big fan of as much as everything I says probably hides that. I dont see why people are so insecure about Norfolk that rather than just stating their point, they have to attack the beach instead.

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First off city hall is going to be torn down. The BOA building was built in the 60's and the juvenille and domestic courthouse is being torn down too. We are going to have a 11 story courthouse and possible 25 story city hall. How can you call the TC a DT when the courthouse is 20-30 minutes away? Norfolk has more people per sq. mile than Vabeach. How can you compare a squid haven, The oceanfront, to the classy bars on Granby? DT Norfolk has the best Mall in the entire region! We have TCC in DT and we have the best Hospital in the region right around the corner. I think this thread should be closed cause we are just going to argue and fight over this. In my opinion Vabeach is just like a barbie doll. Its plastic

In a recent article, it was stated Norfolk wants to get 5000 people living in the downtown area, which is the same as Virginia Beach is trying to do. And yes, AH and Cosmo arent exactly the cream of the crop in archicteture, but they are more asthetically pleasing than the buildings i named. Not to mention 150 West Main has the same problem of a giant parking garage just like AH does(damn you CMSS architects). As for unique and old towers, I would hardly call the Norfolk Southern Tower which was built in 1989 old or unique. The Royster building is gorgeous so I have nothing to argue there. As for most of granby, it is a great street, but it is all low rises, not towers by any stroke of the imagination. But agreed, it is a very nice street.

On the world class museums side, if im not mistaken, Nauticus was due to close for a long time and was making no profit. Its resergence was the battleship Wisconsin which is part of nauticus, not a separate entity and it still doesnt get nearly the amount of interest Norfolk hoped for. Chrysler Hall and Museum are nice, sure, however they get almost no attention and no major names so world class isnt exactly the best words to describe them.

On the note of the performing arts center, virgina beach is set to display the magna carta in 2007, so they arent lagging behind as much as you would like.

Anyway, this conversation is getting really stupid considering I have to defend Virginia Beach by attacking Norfolk, I city which I actually happen to be a big fan of as much as everything I says probably hides that. I dont see why people are so insecure about Norfolk that rather than just stating their point, they have to attack the beach instead.

Well I said that Norfolk will always be the urban core of this region, which it will. All the banks regional HQ is there and you got offended by that and started attacking DT Norfolk. :rolleyes:

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hey vdogg is the 15 stories for city view new info? If not, can you show me in some rendering or somewhere because none of the renderings we have or cmss's site show anything that resembles a 15 story building for phase A, or for any phase for that matter.

It's not on the CMSS site but it is in plan documents submitted to the city. As you know I'm out of town right now and I only have a short time on this computer so you'll have to wait til I get home to dig them up (Sunday or Monday some time).

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:rolleyes: The next time I log on, if I see one more fight like this in the forums I am putting the responsible parties on moderator preview (meaning all your posts must be approved by a moderator first before appearing in the forum). You will stay on moderator preview at least for the duration of my vacation, and perhaps indefinately.

locked

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Thanks, Vdogg for the 2nd chance.

The little battles between Norfolk and VB are an interesting tradition. Not constructive at all. Maybe there's too much freaking 'y' chromosome around here. I can't imagine anything like that between San Jose and Oakland. Do Tampa and St. Pete fight this way? Do Minneapolis and St. Paul? How about Dallas/Fort Worth? Raleigh and Durham? Anybody have any stories? Would it help if we had a major league sports franchise? Rather than fight about it, I think it makes an excellent topic for civil discussion.

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I don't see why we couldn't constructively discuss reasons of one environment over another (Granby vs Westin). Everyone has their preferances and I find it interesting to compare - again constructively of course.

Because the inner core of Granby v. Westin is really Norfolk v. Vabeach for long time residents or people who grew up here like myself. The cities are waring with themselves as well and it does get passed on. Its hard for me to get over comments made by city councilman and citizens of Vabeach that I have talked to. This will never go away and this attitude is going to be like this as long as there are people that grew up in this region. Its different for people who have not been here their entire lives and don't understand why people from Norfolk are so defensive.

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I don't see why we couldn't constructively discuss reasons of one environment over another (Granby vs Westin). Everyone has their preferances and I find it interesting to compare - again constructively of course.

I think it was constructively discussed....I just don't see how the TC can claim to be passing Norfolk as the area's urban core soon and have a lot more "class" than Norfolk. The reasons were listed above, if the posts weren't deleted.

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