Restaurant Development in NW Arkansas

[Mith242]

Einstein Brothers Bagels is coming to the metro. I've had their bagels in Albuquerque, pretty good. Not a whole lot of details on when or where exactly. They just mentioned 4 stores will be in the Benton-Washington Counties area.

[RAK]

Something else coming to the area that some Chicagoans like myself can appreciate. Rosati's will be opening in Bentonville. this is a chain with a long history in Chicagoland. I'm looking forward to this.

Also, ate at the new Olive Garden last night and was sorely disappointed. Undercooked, not coming as per ordered, and taking a long time. They seemed very miserly with the salad, bringing out barely enough for one, let alone the two of us. The breadsticks felt rubbery and the Tuscan potatoes seemed as if they had been flown all the way from Tuscany.

I'm a big fan of the one down in Fayetteville and realize that this restaurant was only open three days. I say give them a month and they should be more up to the caliber that I expect.

Nice looking inside, but I wish they had the vaulted ceiling of the Fayette one and that they'd left the front entrance waiting area a little more open. You walk in and you're practically at the wall behind the host station already.

Overall, happy they are here, still a good looking place, and I think the food will only improve over the next couple of weeks.

[Mith242]

Something else coming to the area that some Chicagoans like myself can appreciate. Rosati's will be opening in Bentonville. this is a chain with a long history in Chicagoland. I'm looking forward to this.

Also, ate at the new Olive Garden last night and was sorely disappointed. Undercooked, not coming as per ordered, and taking a long time. They seemed very miserly with the salad, bringing out barely enough for one, let alone the two of us. The breadsticks felt rubbery and the Tuscan potatoes seemed as if they had been flown all the way from Tuscany.

I'm a big fan of the one down in Fayetteville and realize that this restaurant was only open three days. I say give them a month and they should be more up to the caliber that I expect.

Nice looking inside, but I wish they had the vaulted ceiling of the Fayette one and that they'd left the front entrance waiting area a little more open. You walk in and you're practically at the wall behind the host station already.

Overall, happy they are here, still a good looking place, and I think the food will only improve over the next couple of weeks.

I certainly will say I've seen very big differences in the Olive Garden depending on which one you go to. I've had bad experiences with the one in Ft Smith. I don't even bother with it anymore if I'm ever down there.

[KJW]

Something else coming to the area that some Chicagoans like myself can appreciate. Rosati's will be opening in Bentonville. this is a chain with a long history in Chicagoland. I'm looking forward to this.

Also, ate at the new Olive Garden last night and was sorely disappointed. Undercooked, not coming as per ordered, and taking a long time. They seemed very miserly with the salad, bringing out barely enough for one, let alone the two of us. The breadsticks felt rubbery and the Tuscan potatoes seemed as if they had been flown all the way from Tuscany.

I'm a big fan of the one down in Fayetteville and realize that this restaurant was only open three days. I say give them a month and they should be more up to the caliber that I expect.

Nice looking inside, but I wish they had the vaulted ceiling of the Fayette one and that they'd left the front entrance waiting area a little more open. You walk in and you're practically at the wall behind the host station already.

Overall, happy they are here, still a good looking place, and I think the food will only improve over the next couple of weeks.

RAK, someone made the decision that NWA needed Chicago-style pizza restaurants. Cusano's (local Little Rock-based chain) which also serves this fare has opened in the shopping center behind the DQ in Bella Vista...they also have a Bentonville location. Visited the other day to get a menu...it's an interesting looking place. Weird to see a wood-paneled bar with adult beverages there in BV.

Thanks for the Olive Garden report.

[Julles]

Something else coming to the area that some Chicagoans like myself can appreciate. Rosati's will be opening in Bentonville. this is a chain with a long history in Chicagoland. I'm looking forward to this.

Also, ate at the new Olive Garden last night and was sorely disappointed. Undercooked, not coming as per ordered, and taking a long time. They seemed very miserly with the salad, bringing out barely enough for one, let alone the two of us. The breadsticks felt rubbery and the Tuscan potatoes seemed as if they had been flown all the way from Tuscany.

I'm a big fan of the one down in Fayetteville and realize that this restaurant was only open three days. I say give them a month and they should be more up to the caliber that I expect.

Nice looking inside, but I wish they had the vaulted ceiling of the Fayette one and that they'd left the front entrance waiting area a little more open. You walk in and you're practically at the wall behind the host station already.

Overall, happy they are here, still a good looking place, and I think the food will only improve over the next couple of weeks.

You beat me to it! We were there last night also, and my husband and I commented on the disappointing interior, specifically the lack of the vaulted ceiling, and the claustrophobic feel in general. There was not nearly enough room between tables; every time a waiter showed up with a tray and their little folding table, folks passing through had to wait for them to finish before continuing on.

And the salad! There were four of us, and there was a little tiny pile of salad at the bottom of the bowl! The waiter must have seen our what-the-heck looks, because he left for a moment, then came back and said, "let me get you some more salad, that won't be nearly enough. " A guy at a nearby table ended up with pasta in his lap (not sure if he dropped it or the waiter did), and another waiter showed up with a sheepish look and a dish, asking us if we had ordered what he had in his hand. We hadn't.

In spite of all this, we enjoyed our meal, and I'm sure we'll be back. I agree that they just need some time to work out the kinks. Not sure what can be done about the small feel of the space, though.

[Mith242]

Interesting article on Hapa's Hawaiian Grill in Bentonville in the Northwest Arkansas Times. Sounds like a Hawaiian-Asian fusion type restaurant. Hapa apparently means someone who is half Asian in Hawaiian. It apparently is big on meat and rice, not much on vegetables. Sounds like Hawaiians aren't big on vegetables. Never would have know that.

[RAK]

There's some construction work going on in the Eat This! place. Don't know if it's anything. One lease sign on the side is still there, but it could have been forgotten. Crossing my fingers that it leads to something.

[mzweig]

Einstein Brothers Bagels is coming to the metro. I've had their bagels in Albuquerque, pretty good. Not a whole lot of details on when or where exactly. They just mentioned 4 stores will be in the Benton-Washington Counties area.

That's good. We need a baglery here after Schlegel's shut down. It would be nice to have a place that actually toasts the bagel instead of handing it to you to toast. I can do that at home!

M

[Mith242]

That's good. We need a baglery here after Schlegel's shut down. It would be nice to have a place that actually toasts the bagel instead of handing it to you to toast. I can do that at home!

M

Yeah I would think at least one of the four will be in Fayetteville, maybe two. It's been a while since I've been to one, but I seem to remember thinking they were pretty good.

[jdevers]

With all the Chicago style pizza places moving in, you would think we could get a decent NY style pizza place. I know that the basic style is what all the chains copy, but it is worlds apart. If it isn't cooked directly on the oven, it isn't even close to NY style pizza. Every place I have been to here that has slightly chewy thin crust pizza cooks on a screen and that changes the texture immensely. The closest I have come to it is a place in Eureka Springs but it was still only close. I'm not trying to find pizza exactly like one specific pizza place, but more like any pizza you will find in upstate NJ, eastern PA, NYC, or Connecticut. We have nothing like it. If nothing else, some places should offer 20 inch pizzas (I don't mean Sbarro's either by the slice. A place like that would really rock on Dickson. I was so excited when I heard about Geno's, but one quick trip in there told me the owners have never been into a real pizza by the slice place.

[Mith242]

With all the Chicago style pizza places moving in, you would think we could get a decent NY style pizza place. I know that the basic style is what all the chains copy, but it is worlds apart. If it isn't cooked directly on the oven, it isn't even close to NY style pizza. Every place I have been to here that has slightly chewy thin crust pizza cooks on a screen and that changes the texture immensely. The closest I have come to it is a place in Eureka Springs but it was still only close. I'm not trying to find pizza exactly like one specific pizza place, but more like any pizza you will find in upstate NJ, eastern PA, NYC, or Connecticut. We have nothing like it. If nothing else, some places should offer 20 inch pizzas (I don't mean Sbarro's either by the slice. A place like that would really rock on Dickson. I was so excited when I heard about Geno's, but one quick trip in there told me the owners have never been into a real pizza by the slice place.

Yeah I guess I'm a little surprised there isn't a NY style pizza place here. But I guess I'm not too surprised with the Chicago style places moving in. We're closer to them and there's a little bit of a midwestern feel here as well. But I would imagine eventually someone will put in a NY style pizza place eventually.

[zman9810]

With all the Chicago style pizza places moving in, you would think we could get a decent NY style pizza place. I know that the basic style is what all the chains copy, but it is worlds apart. If it isn't cooked directly on the oven, it isn't even close to NY style pizza. Every place I have been to here that has slightly chewy thin crust pizza cooks on a screen and that changes the texture immensely. The closest I have come to it is a place in Eureka Springs but it was still only close. I'm not trying to find pizza exactly like one specific pizza place, but more like any pizza you will find in upstate NJ, eastern PA, NYC, or Connecticut. We have nothing like it. If nothing else, some places should offer 20 inch pizzas (I don't mean Sbarro's either by the slice. A place like that would really rock on Dickson. I was so excited when I heard about Geno's, but one quick trip in there told me the owners have never been into a real pizza by the slice place.

Since pizza is a subject dear to my heart (and stomach) and I have had neither Chicago style or NY style maybe you could enlighten us as to what each is and the big differences. I think Tim's is the best around here although I hear there's a new place in Benotnville that is excellent. Godfathers was the best a long time ago but I think that might have been due the group of people and pitchers of beer that accompanied it.

[Mith242]

NY style pizza is thin but flexible and sold in really big slices. A lot of people will even fold them. I'd heard something about this. The poor Italians that came over didn't quite have the resources to make it the way it was in Italy. Pizza in Italy is more rigid. Chicago style is like a thick pizza. The crust is formed to make the sides of the pizza as well as the bottom. The ingredients are put in differently also. The cheese is on the bottom. Although I've also seen a thinner style Chicago pizza, but I don't think you see them as often.

[masons_dad1]

A while back the Food Network aired a show in which firefighters from New York and Chicago did a blind taste test (sort of) to decide which pizza was better and New York won (barely). Personally, I've had both (in the actual cities and not imitation) and New York pizza is far superior to Chicago style.

[jdevers]

A while back the Food Network aired a show in which firefighters from New York and Chicago did a blind taste test (sort of) to decide which pizza was better and New York won (barely). Personally, I've had both (in the actual cities and not imitation) and New York pizza is far superior to Chicago style.

Hey, I told you we were BOUND to agree on a few more things.

I watched that show and it seemed more like a chance for a bunch of guys to goof off, but I agree with the conclusion. Chicago style is really good, but NY style is truly something to behold.

I'll add to Mith's description a bit. Chicago style crust is thick, but isn't really like deep dish from Pizza Hut. The crust is really more cake like than fried dough like. Like Mith said, it really forms more like a pie crust too. You get crust all the way around the the edges. The cheese is on the bottom, but it is also sliced cheese instead of shredded. This helps form a barrier so the crust doesn't get soggy. The toppings come next and finally the tomatoes, some places use a sauce and some use a lot of crushed canned tomatoes. Since there isn't a consensus I won't say either is really part of "the style" although the original Lou Malnati's uses crushed tomatoes and they supposedly invented the style. They do this because they cook the pizza at high temp but because of the thick crust it has to cook for quite a while and if the cheese was on the top the crust would be soggier and the cheese would burn badly. Ultimately you end up with a cooked down tomato sauce on the top that is strongly flavored because of the 30-40 minutes at 500 degrees...think of how pasta sauces in baked dishes concentrate.

NY style is almost the opposite pizza. Like Mith said it is thin and flexible, generally with large slices. The toppings are generally simpler and more sparse than Chicago style (3 cm crust can hold up to a lot more than 2 mm crust . While the crust is the ultimate focus of both, the crust of the two is as different as bread versus cake. Also, while Chicago style is cooked at 500F or so, NY style is cooked at 700+ degrees for a very short time. There are several pizzerias in the NYC metro area that use coal fired ovens at 1000-1100 degrees. The pie takes about 45 seconds to cook at those temps and you get the perfect NY style crust that way. Blackened in spots on both the cheese and the crust, but the area touching the sauce didn't cook all that much because of the thermal insulation of the sauce. You end up with a thoroughly cooked bottom and top with an almost undercooked middle, all in something only 5 or 6 mm thick.

Both are great and quite unique. St Louis style on the other hand is something I'm not too worried about getting It is good, but once a year is more than enough for me It is wafer thin, extremely crispy, and coated with a manufactured cheese called Provel that is more like Velveeta than real cheese. Then there aren't slices out of the wheel, but just a grid cut into it yielding many very small two or three bite pieces. Like I said, it is good, but something that is definitely more of regional interest than the others.

[Mith242]

Hey, I told you we were BOUND to agree on a few more things.

I watched that show and it seemed more like a chance for a bunch of guys to goof off, but I agree with the conclusion. Chicago style is really good, but NY style is truly something to behold.

I'll add to Mith's description a bit. Chicago style crust is thick, but isn't really like deep dish from Pizza Hut. The crust is really more cake like than fried dough like. Like Mith said, it really forms more like a pie crust too. You get crust all the way around the the edges. The cheese is on the bottom, but it is also sliced cheese instead of shredded. This helps form a barrier so the crust doesn't get soggy. The toppings come next and finally the tomatoes, some places use a sauce and some use a lot of crushed canned tomatoes. Since there isn't a consensus I won't say either is really part of "the style" although the original Lou Malnati's uses crushed tomatoes and they supposedly invented the style. They do this because they cook the pizza at high temp but because of the thick crust it has to cook for quite a while and if the cheese was on the top the crust would be soggier and the cheese would burn badly. Ultimately you end up with a cooked down tomato sauce on the top that is strongly flavored because of the 30-40 minutes at 500 degrees...think of how pasta sauces in baked dishes concentrate.

NY style is almost the opposite pizza. Like Mith said it is thin and flexible, generally with large slices. The toppings are generally simpler and more sparse than Chicago style (3 cm crust can hold up to a lot more than 2 mm crust . While the crust is the ultimate focus of both, the crust of the two is as different as bread versus cake. Also, while Chicago style is cooked at 500F or so, NY style is cooked at 700+ degrees for a very short time. There are several pizzerias in the NYC metro area that use coal fired ovens at 1000-1100 degrees. The pie takes about 45 seconds to cook at those temps and you get the perfect NY style crust that way. Blackened in spots on both the cheese and the crust, but the area touching the sauce didn't cook all that much because of the thermal insulation of the sauce. You end up with a thoroughly cooked bottom and top with an almost undercooked middle, all in something only 5 or 6 mm thick.

Both are great and quite unique. St Louis style on the other hand is something I'm not too worried about getting It is good, but once a year is more than enough for me It is wafer thin, extremely crispy, and coated with a manufactured cheese called Provel that is more like Velveeta than real cheese. Then there aren't slices out of the wheel, but just a grid cut into it yielding many very small two or three bite pieces. Like I said, it is good, but something that is definitely more of regional interest than the others.

You know your pizza. Thanks for going into more detail. I knew a bit of it but not quite down to that level. I wish I could remember the detail about the early Italian immigrants. They had to make due with the type of ovens over here and the pizza ended up being flexible rather than crispy like pizzas from Italy. Yeah I think I've heard a little bit about the St Louis style. I do remember hearing something about that cheese. Like you said it's something like their version of Velveeta. But I have noticed that there seem to be some other cities where they tend to slice the pizza in a grid also. I've also heard there's some places in New England where they don't tend to use tomato sauce.

[jdevers]

I just travel a lot and pizza makes a decent quick meal

The only part of New England I've been to is Boston, which cooks pizza (and other Italian descended foods) just like NYC.

I think St Louis style is sliced like that because it is so thin it would probably snap under much weight, I imagine other places that grid theirs is for the same reason. I know Domino's thin is or used to be cut like that even though it probably wasn't thin enough to really HAVE to be like that.

[zman9810]

I just travel a lot and pizza makes a decent quick meal

The only part of New England I've been to is Boston, which cooks pizza (and other Italian descended foods) just like NYC.

I think St Louis style is sliced like that because it is so thin it would probably snap under much weight, I imagine other places that grid theirs is for the same reason. I know Domino's thin is or used to be cut like that even though it probably wasn't thin enough to really HAVE to be like that.

Thanks, you are a pizza gourmand! It sounds like I would like the NYC style better- the Chicago style cake-like crust and cheese on bottom doesn't sound as good. I imagine if a had a slice I would like it though. Big chain pizza never measures up after you've had a good slice from a small pizza place. I remember going to a place where you could watch the whole pizza making process and watch them slide it the oven. Good stuff!

[masons_dad1]

Hey, I told you we were BOUND to agree on a few more things.

NY style is almost the opposite pizza. Like Mith said it is thin and flexible, generally with large slices.

Pizza is always a good thing to agree on too!

I was born and raised in NYC so I may be a little biased as too which style I prefer. I do have a theory as to why New York style pizza is flexible. The pizza parlor I remember best was in "the Village" (Greenwich Village). It was such a small parlor and packed with people so it was standing room only. I don't know if folding the slice of pizza was a New York tradition or coincidence, but eating a Chicago style pizza while standing in a room full of pizza-eatin' New Yawkers would have been very messy if even possible. Folding the slice of pizza was also convenient for people "on the go". You remember the opening scene in Saturday Night Fever where Tony (Johnny Travolta) folds a "double decker" pizza and chows down while he continues his strutting???

Flashback:

Courtesy of: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2004...can_tell_by.php

[RAK]

Don't knock Chicago-style. Done right, it's mouth-watering and often better than the thin, cardboard stuff I had visiting NY. Of course, I also had some very delicious thin crust in NY. Just a matter of who makes what. Some of the best NY style I tasted outside of NY and I've had some really good Chicago style far, far from my former haunts.

But you gotta have tomato sauce on it! No alfredo, or whatever horrific stuff the west coast sometimes puts on...

[Mith242]

I don't have any problems with a chicken alfredo pizza. You may not care for some of the pizzas from Italy either. Some of those don't have a tomato sauce either.

[RAK]

Actually, the true Italian style I've seen and I would prefer more of those over some of the alfredo types, but, yes, I prefer the tomato sauce style.

And, actually, though they are not currently coming here, I would be very happy with a California Pizza Kitchen. They have something for everyone there.

By the way, ate at RuthChris in Anaheim just recently. The best looking of the bunch with high glass windows and very elegant furnishings, not to mention a fountain outside. Petite filet was fantastic, as was the chicken breast. The sweet potato casserole tasted more like a desert than a vegetable, which it was marked.

If ours is even half as good in food, it'll be worth the occasional price.

[KJW]

Pizza is always a good thing to agree on too!

I was born and raised in NYC so I may be a little biased as too which style I prefer. I do have a theory as to why New York style pizza is flexible. The pizza parlor I remember best was in "the Village" (Greenwich Village). It was such a small parlor and packed with people so it was standing room only. I don't know if folding the slice of pizza was a New York tradition or coincidence, but eating a Chicago style pizza while standing in a room full of pizza-eatin' New Yawkers would have been very messy if even possible. Folding the slice of pizza was also convenient for people "on the go". You remember the opening scene in Saturday Night Fever where Tony (Johnny Travolta) folds a "double decker" pizza and chows down while he continues his strutting???

Flashback:

Courtesy of: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2004...can_tell_by.php

"Wellll, you can TELL by the way I make my posts,

that I'm Mason's Dad, no time to boast,

the way things grow around this town,

they're still kickin' up red dirt all around,

you know it's all right,

it's OK,

we're livin' large in NWA,

yeah, it's all right,

we still stand,

despite the change in the Barber group's plans,

Wal-Mart is a-shakin' and Tyson is a-quakin',

and we continue to thrive,

continue to thrive,

JBH ain't breakin' and the U of A's awakened,

we continue to thrive,

continue to thrive,

Ah-ah-ah-ah-continue to thriiiiiiiiiiiive..."

[cocothief]

"Wellll, you can TELL by the way I make my posts,

that I'm Mason's Dad, no time to boast,

the way things grow around this town,

they're still kickin' up red dirt all around,

you know it's all right,

it's OK,

we're livin' large in NWA,

yeah, it's all right,

we still stand,

despite the change in the Barber group's plans,

Wal-Mart is a-shakin' and Tyson is a-quakin',

and we continue to thrive,

continue to thrive,

JBH ain't breakin' and the U of A's awakened,

we continue to thrive,

continue to thrive,

Ah-ah-ah-ah-continue to thriiiiiiiiiiiive..."

outstanding.

[Gary_Kreie]

I just travel a lot and pizza makes a decent quick meal

The only part of New England I've been to is Boston, which cooks pizza (and other Italian descended foods) just like NYC.

I think St Louis style is sliced like that because it is so thin it would probably snap under much weight, I imagine other places that grid theirs is for the same reason. I know Domino's thin is or used to be cut like that even though it probably wasn't thin enough to really HAVE to be like that.

I used to like Chicago style over St. Louis style when I first moved to St. Louis. But now I think the Chicago style is too fattening and filling -- too much stuff on a pizza crust. I now much prefer the much lighter St. Louis style pizza -- cracker thin crust on a round pan, cut into squares, using Provel Cheese -- a cheese made in Wisconsin especially for the St. Louis market -- which is a cross between provalone and mozzorella, hence the name. Goes well with Bud Light.

A couple of favorite non-St. Louis Pizza styles -- Dewey's style pizza in Cincinatti, and Hideaway Pizza in Stillwater, Oklahoma.