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cwetteland

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Hopefully what will separate us from Charlotte and Atlanta is density and vibrancy. If we achieve those two things, I really wont care what the skyline looks like in the future. However, as it stands now, each of these new projects/developments downtown brings us a step closer to that reality, so the filling in of the Orlando skyline is symbolic of a maturing city.

And we have a long way to go to attain true urban density, but the good news is that Charlotte and Atlanta aren

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I myself am not a lightrail believer. Which is not to say that I don't admire whizbang technology. And it certainly counts as a civic feather-in-the-cap.

And in comparing Charlotte to Orlando, having been to Charlotte recently, I consider that Orlando has the better synergy *now*, although certainly Charlotte is making great strides at this time.

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I myself am not a lightrail believer. Which is not to say that I don't admire whizbang technology. And it certainly counts as a civic feather-in-the-cap.

And in comparing Charlotte to Orlando, having been to Charlotte recently, I consider that Orlando has the better synergy *now*, although certainly Charlotte is making great strides at this time.

Orlando has had good (read: transit-supportive) land use policies adopted for several years now. It has a lousy zoning ordinance, but even this is friendly to large-scale mixed use projects downtown and in the other activity centers.

And neither city has a particularly urban culture. What Charlotte has going for it is the support of the business community: indeed, the business community is the proactive player in Charlotte. Government planning can actually do what it's supposed to because business not only sees the benefits of taking a smarter approach to growth and city-building, it actively works to carry them out.

Charlotte also has the advantageous position of having a good part of its metropolitan area population annexed into its city limits (I'm sure forumers will correct me, but something like 550,000 out of a metro of 1.2 million?). Orlando is keeping its head above water at around 15 percent. There are a dozen other jurisdictions around here glad to have the region's development-- and they won't try to force it into a rubric of good urbanism, either. Wal-Marts and sprawl crap welcome.

Dale, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but from previous posts it would seem that you support the commuter rail project. If you are not a light rail believer, would you explain your view on why commuter rail is more beneficial to the Orlando region?

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I agree, in some ways, that light rail will not work in Orlando, at least not in its current vision. We just don't boost the density. Boston's green line is the most successful lightrail I have seen, and anyone who knows a thing or two about the area knows that Orlando will never achieve the people per s/m as Allston/Brighton/Brookline MA. I wish we did, but we don't. Even in Boston's situation, they again are considering hiking the fares because the lightrail portion of the larger MBTA system is literally bankrupting the system because of cost repairs and its general inefficuency.

What I especially dislike about Orlando's lightrail plan (if you can call it that) is connecting the airport to the convention center. Tourists are unlikely going to use it the way locals would use a ligthrail connecting I-Drive to downtown, though thats just how things work around here.

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Orlando has had good (read: transit-supportive) land use policies adopted for several years now. It has a lousy zoning ordinance, but even this is friendly to large-scale mixed use projects downtown and in the other activity centers.

And neither city has a particularly urban culture. What Charlotte has going for it is the support of the business community: indeed, the business community is the proactive player in Charlotte. Government planning can actually do what it's supposed to because business not only sees the benefits of taking a smarter approach to growth and city-building, it actively works to carry them out.

Charlotte also has the advantageous position of having a good part of its metropolitan area population annexed into its city limits (I'm sure forumers will correct me, but something like 550,000 out of a metro of 1.2 million?). Orlando is keeping its head above water at around 15 percent. There are a dozen other jurisdictions around here glad to have the region's development-- and they won't try to force it into a rubric of good urbanism, either. Wal-Marts and sprawl crap welcome.

Dale, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but from previous posts it would seem that you support the commuter rail project. If you are not a light rail believer, would you explain your view on why commuter rail is more beneficial to the Orlando region?

On the commuter rail, probably because it is comparatively cheap, not to mention practical. Although I'm not entirely sure why we're paying ten times as much for ours as Nashville is for theirs. Maybe because Nashville is using rolling stock, and the line's a bit shorter.

And I'm not saying I don't want lightrail. I do. I'm just not convinced that its benefits are altogether spectacular.

And in comparison to Charlotte (and I like Charlotte), seems that Orlando's CBD is much more cohesive, with a better historic stock, fewer dead spots, etc.

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I read somewhere that to support rail, an area needs at least 7 units per acre. Downtown currently has about 4.5

Dude, do you know what 4.5 units to the acre looks like? Certainly not downtown orlando. SFD development around here is about 6.0 units to the acre. The Presidential tower is at about 400 units/acre. In order for light rail to be successful, you need at least 55 units/acre along entire corridors.

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The architects were Arquitectronica, correct? I actually like the tallest tower, but the colors are a bit overwhelming.

Arquitectronica (sic) of Miami is designing the "Downtown Plaza" project, includes a 150 unit hotel and 150 residential tower in one tower. There are other towers with other uses, but they are not breaking the 400-foot mark last I checked. More information will be forthcoming next month (by end of Nov/early Dec).

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Arquitectronica (sic) of Miami is designing the "Downtown Plaza" project, includes a 150 unit hotel and 150 residential tower in one tower. There are other towers with other uses, but they are not breaking the 400-foot mark last I checked. More information will be forthcoming next month (by end of Nov/early Dec).

Hang on, "Downtown Plaza" is a component of the Palm Beach Land Trust project ? And that no components are breaking 400 ft. thus far ?

Damn ! What a dissappointing evening on UP.

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Hang on, "Downtown Plaza" is a component of the Palm Beach Land Trust project ? And that no components are breaking 400 ft. thus far ?

Damn ! What a dissappointing evening on UP.

I inferred Jaybee's comment to mean that the 150-unit hotel/150-unit residential tower could be more than 400-feet tall but that the other towers on the site would not. Care to clarify, Jaybee?

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Hang on, "Downtown Plaza" is a component of the Palm Beach Land Trust project ? And that no components are breaking 400 ft. thus far ?

Damn ! What a dissappointing evening on UP.

What did I miss? I didn't catch where Jaybee said it was part of PBLT. Not saying it ain't but I didn't make that connection. Yes this is a PBLT thread but Jaybee was just commenting on a previous post about Arquitectronica who had designed the OldPizzuti.

four hundred, schmore hundred ... good design is what counts.

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What did I miss? I didn't catch where Jaybee said it was part of PBLT. Not saying it ain't but I didn't make that connection. Yes this is a PBLT thread but Jaybee was just commenting on a previous post about Arquitectronica who had designed the OldPizzuti.

four hundred, schmore hundred ... good design is what counts.

Downtown Plaza is the working name for PBL&T.

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Dude, do you know what 4.5 units to the acre looks like? Certainly not downtown orlando. SFD development around here is about 6.0 units to the acre. The Presidential tower is at about 400 units/acre. In order for light rail to be successful, you need at least 55 units/acre along entire corridors.

We will never have 55 per acre. We are a 4.5 now because most of our downtown is not residential. We need over 89,000 units to reach 55 per acre. If all of the proposd projects are built, we will be around 9.5 units/acre.

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We will never have 55 per acre. We are a 4.5 now because most of our downtown is not residential. We need over 89,000 units to reach 55 per acre. If all of the proposd projects are built, we will be around 9.5 units/acre.

Then why bother wasting money on light rail if we are unwilling to design a City to support it?

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