Jump to content

Mills/50


camstrang

Recommended Posts

KLStorey will have better cliffs but I attended and think the residential will be closer to 300 and something. Mix of 1 2 and 3 bedroom units ranging from 800-1100 sq ft.

The biggest news is that the anchor store will be a Fresh Market. You take the good with the bad though - FM requires the surface parking that you see in a previously posted rendering.

I'll give a full run down later but right I just want to touch of the few issues that I had with the plan and the possible solutions that have popped in my head. I feel like the city is pushing this project through before seeing what this change really means. This is just the problems that seemed to pop up tonight and solutions off the top of my head. Most of the questions has little to do with the design or where specific about heights, traffic flow, etc with the design. The northern apartment and office block isn't much changed and IMO it seems like a pretty solid design. I would prefer a dog area (possibly where the drain system is on the Formosa nook of the property) but overall the northern half seems decent. The main concerns I had weren't touched on much and exclusively deal with the southern half of the development.

Problem 1- No dynamic interaction with Mills Ave.

Problem 2-The trees on the holdout property are currently slated to be cut down.

My Solution- Take the 20 or so parking spaces along Mills Ave and make that area into outdoor dining. This also allows the trees to remain providing shade and keeping the tree canopy intact. With restaurants valet is becoming more and more popular so a valet using parking garage space shouldn't be that much of an issue. A shared parking program such as what many of the restaurants and offices have in Winter Park would work well here. The valet should help fix some parking issues and would help attract finer food establishments who would be more willing to pay higher rents to the project.

Problem 3-Fifty foot tall luxury apartment buildings from the north block overlook a 2 story grocery store roof.

Problem 4-Concern with blank wall on west side of PD visible from Haven Dr.

My Solution- Roof top park area with double ramp from Dinky Line Trail up back of building connecting to park. The ramp would break up the back wall and allow for planters to be affixed to the wall. It would also give Dinky Line another point of interest along its path. Access from parking area via an elevator near cafe space beside Fresh Market would be most ideal. (Inspiration-Kiley Gardens Tampa- A park on top of a parking garage that includes sculpture space, a small amphitheater, fountains and views of the city.) A more kitsch style to go along with the Mills/50 neighborhood could include AstroTurf and an airstream with an industrial kitchen style inside (albeit a small one) that different food truck chefs could use while special roof top events happen. (A number of such rooftop dwellings exist in major cities, some being temporary, some not so much. These spaces are perfect for special events and pop-up shops) Great place for movies under the stars or music recitals. With a name like Mills Park shouldn't the development have a bit more than one tiny postage size park? The pop-up space or the kitchen space could bring a small amount of extra income to the project. The park being privately owned could also be rented for special events helping bring a bit more money.

Problem 5-Single story retail where 4 story buildings were approved for.

Problem 6-Great hotel site, approved for a hotel, but no hotel is currently in the plans.

My Solution-The number 1 issue I have with the project (even more than the surface parking, which in all actuality could easily double as a great place for a farmers market or craft fair certain times of the year, just like what Dr Phillips has) is the single story retail along Virginia Ave. Multi-story retail here wouldn't work IMO, neither would offices. DeBartolo had the community meeting though kept mentioning how great this development would be for a boutique hotel. The medical office pads (2 of them, being developed by Pelloni separately) on the Mills Ave section have one of which can be developed as a hotel. Right now though it looks to be developed as a medical office building.

If DeBartolo is so convinced that this site is perfect for a hotel why not place one of top of the retail along Virginia? It would be small but with three floors of rooms (the site is already approved for heights of up to 4 stories) it would be a decent size for a boutique hotel. It could again bring in a decent amount of extra money for the project. Only the space of one retail shop would need to be taken on the ground floor. Anyone who has been to a large city can attest to what small ground floor footprint a hotel can truly take up. I've stayed in a hotel in France that on the ground floor wasn't much wider than the elevator itself. The rooms wouldn't want to face the parking lot and the floor space is to small for rooms on both sides so rooms would only be on the south side, looking towards the skyline of the city.

This means the wall overlooking the parking area would only be a hallway. This wall could easily be glass with a tinted feature in it (Inspiration-Columbia College's Michigan Ave facade and BIG's Mountain Dwellings building though one of a tree or something more artistic would work better in Mills Park). I would prefer something more dynamic, something that changes and creates interest from the parking area. This wave example in Korea comes to mind but a simple blind in-between two window panes would do the trick. Even if the wall only had three windows, a blind that opens and closes could work.

On the Virginia Ave side we would now have a four story building, easily visible from Mills Ave. Keeping with the boutique hotel ambiance and the Mills/50 artistic nature each balcony could be a different color (Inspiration-this new Palm Springs hotel). This though seems to be a popular arts move. Instead I would like to see each balcony (even a small balcony with no real sq ft to it, just a door opening to it from each room) railings instead feature art. A bigger and flipped on their side version of the banners featured on light poles around town could be used. The artwork could change out as often as wanted. An easy installation that would only require sliding the banners over poles at the sides of each balcony. The art could sometimes be on all the balconies creating a building wide piece and other times only a few balconies could be used. The art itself could change with the seasons, and occasionally feature holiday themes (pink for breast cancer is one example). This would make the Virginia Ave side of the building taller and create more artistic interest within Mills/50 itself.

In my perfect dream world a historic looking block lettering neon 'Hotel' sign would sit on top of the building shining down Mills Ave. One along the side of the building would also suffice.

---------------------

I know my solutions aren't perfect and I've only given this a few hours of thought since the community meeting but I think they show that there is a lot more potential to the site than what DeBartolo is giving even when keeping the surface parking that Fresh Market seems to want to so badly. This request reminds me of the request that Border's had when moving into Winter Park Village (Page 8 is where the comment is made), a move that is now attempting to be fixed by that developer (Page 149 is where the plans are first mentioned).

Sorry for the length and all the hypothetical in this post, just had to get share some thoughts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


KLStorey, I am loving your vision for Mills50. Why not send this along to the city and the developer for suggestion?

Yes, many thanks to Downtown Steve and KLStorey for reporting back on the meeting. I was also glad to see Commissioner Robert Stuart in attendance from a report I got on Facebook (if Buddy does in fact step down to run for governor in 2014, Robert is the one I'm most interested in as a possible successor at the moment).

KL, I want to thank you for sharing your thoughts on ways to improve the plan, but I am particularly grateful to you for making suggestions which would really preserve the sense of place here. So many well-meaning folks want to take great ideas from elsewhere without at least giving a nod to the fact that we need to recognize what makes Orlando and central Florida unique. If you don't, you end up with Casselberry and Hunters Creek.

This particular stretch of Mills is especially interesting because of the various decades involved in its development, but especially the 50's. President Harry Truman dedicated the causeway over Lake Estelle during his second term. Your suggestions along that line are commendable and thanks again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are some more current renderings.

The project is split at Nebraska giving us a "North Block" and a "South Block."

The north block (north is to the left as the bottom of the photo is 17-92) hasn't changed much. The south block is where it's less than satisfying.

206176_10101292240007512_1405948279_n.jpg

From what I remember:

The yellow parcels are Pelloni's to develop. They'd like to do medical office space. Dibartalo said that they have the right to take it back if Pelloni doesn't develop (they can't just sit on it) and the City has it tied into the permitting that if there is a lag time, DiB will have to make it look nice until the point at which it is developed. The lighter brown rectangle above the yellow boxes is the garage which is also part of the Pelloni section and would serve those buildings.

To the left (south) of the Pelloni area is the part/public space. The small orange areas are cafe type structures.

Up top (west) of this all is the 310 unit apartment complex.

South Block:

Pretty simple - restaurant/retail space, parking, and a Fresh Market to the very top. It's worth noting that the entire building would not be Fresh Market and that a restaurant would be on the very southern most (far left) point.

This is welcome because the Dinky Line Trail will run to the west of the entire project and it would be nice for the trail to have some interaction other than the developed calling it an "amenity" but hiding it. The restaurants patio would run around the side and the Fresh Market would have a 2nd floor terrace - all of which faces the trail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KL - do you recall if they said that Fresh Market was originally planned to go on the corner or the street and they deferred to be set back?

My girlfriend remembers that happening (and I thought she was sleeping the whole meeting!) but I didn't hear it - I just heard they wanted surface parking for visibility.

I can't think of better visibility to be on the corner, with your entrance framing the park.

Something like this:

525923_10101293997355772_1930624311_n.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KL - do you recall if they said that Fresh Market was originally planned to go on the corner or the street and they deferred to be set back?

My girlfriend remembers that happening (and I thought she was sleeping the whole meeting!) but I didn't hear it - I just heard they wanted surface parking for visibility.

Yeah, that's what I remember as well. DeBartolo seemed to place the blame on Fresh Market for wanting the grocery store being against the back with surface parking looking towards Mills Ave. Something about Fresh Market wanting one entrance may have also been said but I don't have that in my tweets so if anyone can remember... I also recall them mentioning that surface parking against Haven Dr was either banned or stated as not being ideal.

I like your flip better though, and they could still add small retail along Haven, with outdoor courtyards opening onto Dinky Line.

Some of the other things I found interesting.

  • Yoga area, 2 pools (1 active, 1 with fire features) will be in residential courtyards. One pool will go in each courtyard.
  • Apartments may come with segway rentals for residents
  • Apartments will be named The Gallery at Mills Park, use of wood from the lumber yard will be exposed and used throughout, plaques will also make sure the history is remembered. (Layering of history is one thing many large cities have that up until recently we haven't had, glad to see it happening more locally)
  • Lymmo will have drop off along Mills Ave, will not go onto property
  • Long term bike lockers will be in offices and near retail
  • South block (retail area) is 25% of former density.
  • Concrete medians will be along Mills Ave, utilities will be buried except power lines. (They claimed these too expensive to have put underground. Funny that Winter Park is paying for entire roads of their power lines to be put underground and yet here two blocks makes an entire project unfeasible.)
  • Fresh Market will have outdoor seating area along the front.
  • Developer is saying Fresh Market will only come if they get surface parking
  • DeBartolo will have their first Orlando office in the development

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Found this blurry pic of the conceptual elevation of The Fresh Market store front at Mills Park.

389370_10150933597613991_2013658311_n.jpg

Not very urban and leaves a lot to be desired in it's design. Hopefully the final product will have a much more dense and uptown feel to it and not just another version of a strip mall.

Edited by Ocityst
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

OBJ announced today that Orlando Immunology Center will be building a new facility on their current location and the neighboring former location of Ranger's, across Mills from the northernmost portion of Mills Park. The main building is 3-stories and will house the research and clinic functions, and the second phase is an attached pharmacy.

Orlando-Immunology-Center-rendering.jpg?v=1

The architecture is visually interesting, but nothing profound, and I think this will be a great addition to the area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Maybe the single story wing can have a roof top patio, what better place to have a fundraiser for HIV than on the roof of a research center!

I like the architecture but the more I drive this stretch (From McCarny to Princeton) with this addition in mind the more I can't help but notice that this strip is becoming nothing but offices with no real street interaction, ashamed as it's so close to Loch Haven Park. While the architecture is interesting, not having any retail space be a part of it is a missed opportunity. It will be a nice addition and will add some great visual stimulus along this strip. Between this and Mills Park it won't be long till this section of Mills Ave will look completely different!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've noticed more and more expansion projects of medical practices surrounding the hospitals lately. I don't know if it's a function of the economy improving, consolidation of practices as a function of Obamacare or something else (or all of the above) but it looks like we'll be seeing more of this coming along. The projects I've seen this far seem to be driven by the doctors themselves and not by developers, so my assumption is we may not see much in the way of mixed-use (with things like retail abutting the street,) but that's nothing more than a guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While the architecture is interesting, not having any retail space be a part of it is a missed opportunity. It will be a nice addition and will add some great visual stimulus along this strip. Between this and Mills Park it won't be long till this section of Mills Ave will look completely different!

I think with many of these buildings (like the single-story pharmacy,) it should be pretty easy for them to be configured to have some interaction with the streetfront. They really are retail, but a second entrance oriented to the street would help the permeability here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think with many of these buildings (like the single-story pharmacy,) it should be pretty easy for them to be configured to have some interaction with the streetfront. They really are retail, but a second entrance oriented to the street would help the permeability here.

I was wondering if the pharmacy at OIC would be open to the public or primarily used by patients.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am guessing its a specialty pharmacy - not a drugstore where you can pick up your Rx allergy medicine - so it'd primarily used by patients. But if you're a patient who's down the block at Fresh Market, I think the psychological barrier of having to go around to the back of the building to pick up your meds is enough to make you drive and park again. If you can see the front door from the front door of Fresh Market (or wherever else), you're more likely to walk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am guessing its a specialty pharmacy - not a drugstore where you can pick up your Rx allergy medicine - so it'd primarily used by patients. But if you're a patient who's down the block at Fresh Market, I think the psychological barrier of having to go around to the back of the building to pick up your meds is enough to make you drive and park again. If you can see the front door from the front door of Fresh Market (or wherever else), you're more likely to walk.

Good point - here's hoping!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've noticed more and more expansion projects of medical practices surrounding the hospitals lately. I don't know if it's a function of the economy improving, consolidation of practices as a function of Obamacare or something else (or all of the above) but it looks like we'll be seeing more of this coming along. The projects I've seen this far seem to be driven by the doctors themselves and not by developers, so my assumption is we may not see much in the way of mixed-use (with things like retail abutting the street,) but that's nothing more than a guess.

I recall when the health care law was passed, a portion of it dealt with doctors leasing space from hospitals and mandating that the hospital charge a market rate. I do not know if it is related.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I found dirt moving / site work being done when I drove down Mills today - Fresh Market time finally! ;-)post-11557-0-19961300-1348859097_thumb.j

I ran past the site on the Urban Trail this morning and they have the silt fence installed around the perimeter and it looked like they were clearing out the adjacent building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.