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Piazza Bergamo


RestedTraveler

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Just heard the new plans for Piazza Bergamo on WYFF. Restaurants along Main Street, most of the people who attended, and me are all against it. The new plans include for the bridge to come down, the grass to be covered up, a carousel to be placed inside Piazza Bergamo, and no more Downtown Alive due to too little space inside the area after it is complete. The renderings did look good though. I say they tear down the bridge, the old Woolworth building, and the old Young Fashions store, but leave the rest.

The WYFF article had a quote from a woman saying that she wants Greenville to be "green," and not just concrete everywhere. That is one of the dumbest comments I have heard in a long time. Last time I checked, a small patch of grass is not what makes Greenville "green," and the many parks and greenways throughout the city (including downtown and in surrounding areas) are. Is taking away the green grass at Piazza Bergamo going to make Greenville a concrete jungle? I don't think so.

As for the plans, I am all for the bridge and those offices being torn down. It would also be nice if the Young Fashions store was torn down as well so that space could be incorprated in the plan. I would like for the Woolworth's building to remain, though. I think it is prime retail space, and am still holding out hope that a 2-3 story Borders will go there one day. I think we need to open up Piazza Bergamo, but extending it all the way down to the next block seems like a waste of valuable retail space. I hope they wouldn't do that.

I don't get the carousel idea. I would prefer a fountain. Hopefully things will be a little clearer once we have some visual images of what the space will look like.

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The WYFF article had a quote from a woman saying that she wants Greenville to be "green," and not just concrete everywhere. That is one of the dumbest comments I have heard in a long time. Last time I checked, a small patch of grass is not what makes Greenville "green," and the many parks and greenways throughout the city (including downtown and in surrounding areas) are. Is taking away the green grass at Piazza Bergamo going to make Greenville a concrete jungle? I don't think so.

It's not really all that green anyway. When was the last time the people fighting for this place took a good look at it? When was the last time they offered to clean it up? It's covered with cigarette butts.

That patch of Green is evidently referred to as "Coffee Green Park?" I read that in a letter posted on the front door of a downtown business this past weekend. It's anything but a park.

I agree - the carousel idea doesn't fit with that piazza. I made the Binghamton reference previously because that town is more or less famous for its collection of carousels, as NYT likely knows. I could certainly see a carousel in the middle of Cleveland Park or perhaps even somewhere in Falls Park, but I just don't see it in Piazza Bergamo/Coffee Green Park.

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I also support the efforts to remove the "grassy spot" in Piazza Bergamo. My vision includes more Italian-styled architecture. Necessary accents should include fountain(s), decorative trees, unique pavers, and plenty of multi-level shop/restaurant space around the entire plaza. I want to hear ambient live music mixed with the sounds of flowing water and happy pedestrians. There are other ingredients I would love to see, but this is a good start. :shades:

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Whatever happened to the proposal for an Italian Renaisannce styled building to go where the Young Fashions building is?

I remember seeing diagrams and drawings in the window before the Drive took over the facility as a team store.

I was wondering the samething

and does this mean that GQ fashions will finally leave...that place has been going out of business for 18 years it seems....

Carousel is the worst idea i have heard in a looonnng time :sick:

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I also support the efforts to remove the "grassy spot" in Piazza Bergamo.
I agree. We're talking about a ground covering. Cobblestone or slate would also be ground covering. It's not like anyone's saying that a "Centennial Oak" should be cut down or that a natural resource or landmark will be squandered for all eternity.

It's just grass, which is like pulling up linoleum -- considering the patch we're talking about. One day, if someone decides that a fountain and pavers sucks, they can pull it up and replace it with grass again if they want. Or SynLawn, or linoleum.

Functionally, I'm not sure what grass adds to that area. I'm usually there in evening hours...do people "lay out" there or something that they might not do on another surface? Will there be a stormwater runoff problem? Does the grass reduce a greenhouse effect downtown. I doubt it, but would be interested to know if environmental considerations like that come into play with the "grass-vocates." Environmentally speaking, I think grass presents more problems. It has to be watered and treated with chemicals and fertilizers -- otherwise you don't have a grassy spot, you've got my front lawn. (Which, incidentally, I will make available for free to anyone willing to take it.) Functionally, grass pushes people onto walkways, effectively reducing the useable space and minimizing that space's impact as a relief valve for Main Street sidewalk traffic.

If you keep the grass, it's more like a miniaturized, half-assed college campus "quad" and not like any piazza I know.

Just my thoughts. Personally, if the grass stays, that's fine. I'm not really going to get worked up over this one way or another. Like I said, it's just a ground covering. One of many to choose from....

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The purpose for the (existing) grass is for a Pets restroom.

I question the carasal idea as well. GQ should go, but be replaced with the project that was proposed for it. If the principal can't complete it, hopefully someone else will. Woolworht needs to be a new 3 story mix use project.

Isn't the grass shown in the rendering fairly close to the size of the one now?

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Whatever happened to the proposal for an Italian Renaisannce styled building to go where the Young Fashions building is?

I remember seeing diagrams and drawings in the window before the Drive took over the facility as a team store.

I loved this idea and haven't seen or heard anything about it in quite some time. :(

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I would love to know what the fuss is now. They didn't want the grass to go. Then the developer shows that green grass is still in the design. Now you have the downtown alive guy saying the space will be to small. The space is relatively speaking, kind of small already. Well I guess like the old saying goes, You can't please everybody all the time.

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The purpose for the (existing) grass is for a Pets restroom.

I question the carasal idea as well. GQ should go, but be replaced with the project that was proposed for it. If the principal can't complete it, hopefully someone else will. Woolworht needs to be a new 3 story mix use project.

Isn't the grass shown in the rendering fairly close to the size of the one now?

I think that The Furman Co. is the developer on that project, so If it doesn't happen its becuase they do not think there is a market for it yet.

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Here is my blunt and to-the-point opinion on the matter:

1. The proposed plan, while not perfect, is a LOT better than the way things are now.

2. People need to find another place for their dogs to pee and defecate.

3. People who want to keep the grassy area because their kids like to play in it need to be aware of #2.

4. While music at the Piazza is nice, I do not like the idea of removing/rearranging the planters and tables. The fact that the current piazza is so open, with tables that look sloppy and out of place, is a drawback. It might be nice when bands want to play, but the other 90% of the time it looks like any other open space.

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I think the new Piazza hould be more Italian, considering it is named after our sister city, something this new design is not. I do not think their should be a carosel, I do nothink their should be planters, I do not think their should be any "Green Space"

The Bridge Building should come down, and the new plaza should be a wide open paved place, maybe with a foutain in the center or somewhere and landscaping on the perimiter. I also think that the intersection of Coffee and Main should have the same style paving as what ever is used in the Piazza. And the Piazzas paving should be in an Italianate Pattern.

If anybody has seen the plan that caused the fuss, that was a good plan, this new plan, is not.

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2. People need to find another place for their dogs to pee and defecate.

3. People who want to keep the grassy area because their kids like to play in it need to be aware of #2.

Ewwwwww!!!!!

And here I was thinking that people go there during the day to lay out!

Going back through this thread in hopes of getting some better visuals I encountered an article from last December that has this paragraph that juxtaposes the same points above -- but clearly in a way that shows the two people talking weren't very aware of the other, competing use:

"The city manager says this grass is often a landmine of dog droppings, creating an unsanitary problem for the city. But for pups like Penny, the Piazza is a place to play. Downtown resident Heidi Aiken says getting rid of the grass is like paving paradise. "It's interesting to think that the city says they've had a hard time with this space when it's really been a destination and an attraction for a lot of people," she says. That's the sense of community Megan is searching for and something she says might be lost if the grass disappears. "You wouldn't see little kids rolling around on the concrete."

Yuck! The thought of unwitting kids rolling in dog poo is reason enough to nuke the grassy spot. People interacting with dog droppings might work...if our Sister City was Nice or Marseilles.

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Ewwwwww!!!!!

And here I was thinking that people go there during the day to lay out!

Going back through this thread in hopes of getting some better visuals I encountered an article from last December that has this paragraph that juxtaposes the same points above -- but clearly in a way that shows the two people talking weren't very aware of the other, competing use:

"The city manager says this grass is often a landmine of dog droppings, creating an unsanitary problem for the city. But for pups like Penny, the Piazza is a place to play. Downtown resident Heidi Aiken says getting rid of the grass is like paving paradise. "It's interesting to think that the city says they've had a hard time with this space when it's really been a destination and an attraction for a lot of people," she says. That's the sense of community Megan is searching for and something she says might be lost if the grass disappears. "You wouldn't see little kids rolling around on the concrete."

Yuck! The thought of unwitting kids rolling in dog poo is reason enough to nuke the grassy spot. People interacting with dog droppings might work...if our Sister City was Nice or Marseilles.

The funny thing about Heidi Aiken's quote is that I rarely see people playing and congregating on the grassy area. Granted, I do not pass through there on a regular basis at various times of the day, but most of the time that area is just a way for people to walk between the parking building and Main Street, right? :lol:

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I've seen kids playing in that grassy area. Heck, I've seen them hunt easter eggs there. For a long time, I had to wrestle my daughter away from the area. Now, she realizes just what we do about it, and the thought of what lies beneath (cigarette butts and dog doo) is something I think she finds very much revolting.

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btoy, I agree with your post. It's called Piazza Bergamo, wouldn't it make sense to follow it's namesake and be modeled after an Italian piazza?

The carousel thing interest me. Doesn't feel like the right fit for Piazza Bergamo, but wouldn't it be great if the city bought a historic Dentzel and renovated it, then placed it in a prominent downtown spot/park? Talk about the European feel....that would add to it greatly! :thumbsup: Here's a link to a historic carousel in Meridian, MS. I've been to this and must say, it's a thing of beauty! :D

http://www.meridianms.org/pr_carousel.htm

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btoy, I agree with your post. It's called Piazza Bergamo, wouldn't it make sense to follow it's namesake and be modeled after an Italian piazza?

The carousel thing interest me. Doesn't feel like the right fit for Piazza Bergamo, but wouldn't it be great if the city bought a historic Dentzel and renovated it, then placed it in a prominent downtown spot/park? Talk about the European fell....that would add to it greatly! :thumbsup: Here's a link to a historic carousel in Meridian, MS. I've been to this and must say, it's a thing of beauty! :D

http://www.meridianms.org/pr_carousel.htm

Wow! That thing is worth over a mil and let people ride it???? :shok:

Thanks gsupstate, that is nice. Where do you suppose would be a good fit for a carousel? How about the atrium in the Hyatt.

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Here is my blunt and to-the-point opinion on the matter:

2. People need to find another place for their dogs to pee and defecate.

Any suggestions? You have to admit that there is an issue here. We have a significant DT population now, they are going to have pets. They have to go somewhere.

Frankly this area needs a real "wow" factor injection. With everything going on at Falls Park, we don't want the Main St. core to be too neglected.

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Any suggestions? You have to admit that there is an issue here. We have a significant DT population now, they are going to have pets. They have to go somewhere.

Frankly this area needs a real "wow" factor injection. With everything going on at Falls Park, we don't want the Main St. core to be too neglected.

As far as I care, they can go anywhere, street, sidewalk, park, base of a tree, on a fire hydrant, but, PLEASE pick up after them when they are done.

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As far as I care, they can go anywhere, street, sidewalk, park, base of a tree, on a fire hydrant, but, PLEASE pick up after them when they are done.
This is what I was alluding to before regarding Nice and Marseilles. Walking around those cities is treacherous if you don't pay close attention to the sidewalk and the poo-mines that appear at all-too-frequent intervals. I recall when NYC first adopted a "pooper scooper" law. People were outraged and bemused. We've grown accustomed to it...practically to the point where people don't realize that the outdoors is Mother Nature's restroom. I agree. Let the drop their stuff where they want to drop it -- and then pick it up so that my shoe doesn't have to. Losing a strip of grass isn't going to be a problem. If you ask me, if there is a strip of grass, then there should be a "Keep Pets Off" rule. The sidewalks and pavement are already there for them.
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Here are the three main reason's Paris, France has been the number one tourist destination in the World for so long:

  1. Art

  2. Architecture

  3. Literature

How can we make Greenville's own Piazza Bergamo into a truly unforgettable and unavoidable "destination" by incorporating these three elements? :shades:
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