"White Flight" in Gwinnett?

[StevenRocks]

These are the type of questions that we should already know the answers too and keep off this website. You see, questions like this lead to very "heated discussions" and possibly racial views!

I want an answer because I don't have one. I don't see that as contoversial in the least. I just want to know what people think.

P.S. No, I'm not a racist!!

Who would admit to being a racist? Anyway, that has little to nothing to do with the question.

Why do middle-class white people move away when minorities move into their neighborhoods?

[bfermanich]

I just had the most amazing thought. Here is the rule that will settle this whole dispute about race relations, not just on this thread but on all threads that deal with race issues.

You should always give everyone a fair chance and not judge them by race, creed, gender, or orientation. But.. if that person turns out to be a total jerk, then don't feel obligated to overly respect and admire them just because they're a minority.

I hope that made sense.

Amen brother. I don't care who you are, everyone plays by the same rules. If you're a white redneck who likes to repeatedly rev up their 67' Camaro to 6000 rpm at 11:30pm on a Tuesday night you're going to get me pissed. If you're a black guy who likes to pump up the bass on the stereo till your fillings rattle at 11:30pm on a Tuesday night, YOU'RE GONNA GET ME PISSED.

Its just the principle of the matter.

[Andrea]

These are the type of questions that we should already know the answers too and keep off this website. You see, questions like this lead to very "heated discussions" and possibly racial views! Same with our fellow forumer who decided to discuss religion on a METRO ATLANTA GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT FORUM??

Both of those things have tremendous influence on the growth and development of cities. They are regularly studied by professionals in the field and are the subject of many books and articles.

Are race and religion the elephants in the living room that we're supposed to pretend we do not see? The fact that people feel strongly about these issues doesn't mean we can't have a civil discussion

[bfermanich]

We can't blame people for wanting a better quality of life. But the term "quality of life" is subjectively based. Every culture has their own definition of quality of life. It just so happens that your average white person has a different idea of what exactly a high quality of life means than say your average hispanic. Of course we can't totally rule out racism as being a motive for white flight. Some white people are surely racist. But I think it really boils down to what our definition of a high quality of life is. For some it means good schools. Some people say its attributed to income. Others define it by family values/traditions.

If 9 out of 10 neighbors like to cut their grass once a week and you like to cut your grass once a month, you'll probably feel like an outsider in your neighborhood, because damit, its not high on your priority list. I think people flock to the places that most mirror themselves.

[Andrea]

It just so happens that your average white person has a different idea of what exactly a high quality of life means than say your average hispanic.

I'd have to disagree with that. In my opinion there's no connection between skin color and the meaning of a high quality of life.

[Andrea]

.. if that person turns out to be a total jerk, then don't feel obligated to overly respect and admire them just because they're a minority.

I've never heard anyone suggest that. Have they?

[ryanmckibben]

It's all about respect for others. But I do understand the, what seems like, innate desire to live or congregate with those who are similar to yourself. And I don't think race truly has anything to do with it. IMO it is much more about culture and socioeconomic status then about the color of your skin.

Without getting race involved, I think it is fair to say that the higher your rung on the latter is the more well kempt your posessions and appearance will be. It is a lso a fact that minorities make up a disproportionally high percentage of the poor. Historically, minirities moving into your neighborhood equated to the poor moving onto your neighborhood. Today minorities have at least a footing in the middle and upper classes as well. I live in a condo building in Midtown and their are plenty of different races and cultures living in fairly close proximity. The one thing we have in common is that we are all middle or upple middle class, with roughly the same levals of education. If you sampled random residents, without regards to race, as to what activities they enjoyed, you woud probably find that there would be certain answers repeated numerous times.

[Andrea]

Well said, Ryan. I agree.

[bfermanich]

I'd have to disagree with that. In my opinion there's no connection between skin color and the meaning of a high quality of life.

Ok, fine. "Cultural" differences instead of skin color. You're right.

One thing I've noticed is that it doesn't work exactly the same in the suburbs as it does in the city. I think people in the burbs are more isolated from one another. There's not as much interaction amongst cultural groups because A) its more homogenous, and B) we're not all mashed together rubbing shoulders so to speak like in the city. Cultures aren't influencing each other as much. And so there isn't as much of a dialog, which explains why suburbanites aren't as comfortable with diversity. But you really can't blame them for that. Its under the direct influence of their physical environment in which they live.

[krazeeboi]

If you're a black guy who likes to pump up the bass on the stereo till your fillings rattle at 11:30pm on a Tuesday night, YOU'RE GONNA GET ME PISSED.

The proper term isn't "fillings," it's "fronts" or "grill."

[bfermanich]

The proper term isn't "fillings," it's "fronts" or "grill."

Good call, homie

[Andrea]

Ok, fine. "Cultural" differences instead of skin color. You're right.

I'm not sure what you mean by "cultural differences instead of skin color" when you say that your average white person has a different idea of what a high quality of life means than your average hispanic. Are you saying those differences exist because one group is white or the other is hispanic?

My feeling is that it's questionable at best to suggest that differences about what constitutes a high quality of life arise from factors that are inherent in someone's race. To the extent there are such differences, I think they are more likely to result from factors such as which group is more economically advantaged, which one is more numerous, who has historically wielded power and influence and has more access to it, who has had better access to education, business connections, social approval, media control, etc.

I don't believe any of those things are due to intrinsic racial differences. That's why I think it's dubious to argue that broad stereotypes based on race "just so happen."

One thing I've noticed is that it doesn't work exactly the same in the suburbs as it does in the city. I think people in the burbs are more isolated from one another. There's not as much interaction amongst cultural groups because A) its more homogenous, and B) we're not all mashed together rubbing shoulders so to speak like in the city. Cultures aren't influencing each other as much. And so there isn't as much of a dialog, which explains why suburbanites aren't as comfortable with diversity. But you really can't blame them for that. Its under the direct influence of their physical environment in which they live.

I believe framing discussions about racism in terms of "blame" is counterproductive. I grew up in the era of legal segregation and later watched Atlanta re-segregate itself on a de facto basis. I don't really blame myself for that, although I participated in it and undoubtedly benefited from it.

But I can't do much about that. Where I think I would be more remiss would be to turn a blind eye to what has occurred or to continue to justify things on racial grounds.

[Hotlanta]

The proper term isn't "fillings," it's "fronts" or "grill."

Funny but kind of not relevant

[krazeeboi]

I actually thought about mentioning the Nelly song.

[ryanmckibben]

I wonder how much money will be spent on gold or diamond teeth or for that matter on rims or headrest TV's this year by people that are only a missed paycheck away from not having enough money to eat and signing up for food stamps. There are numerous reasons the poor are poor, but one of them has to be stupidity.

[bfermanich]

I wonder how much money will be spent on gold or diamond teeth or for that matter on rims or headrest TV's this year by people that are only a missed paycheck away from not having enough money to eat and signing up for food stamps. There are numerous reasons the poor are poor, but one of them has to be stupidity.

I totally agree. Some people even venture as far to say that poverty is a mental disorder. I won't go that far, but I think spending your money wisely will get you far in life.

[Andrea]

I totally agree. Some people even venture as far to say that poverty is a mental disorder. I won't go that far, but I think spending your money wisely will get you far in life.

Yeah, but I shudder to think how many rich people have blown huge amounts money, often when they were simply born into it and didn't do one thing to justify having it in the first place. I don't think being unwise with money is limited to people of any race, class, background or education.

[ryanmckibben]

I heard this quote once and, while I don't remeber who to attiribute it to, I think it may have some validity.

"If you were to take all of the money in the world and distribute it evenly among the entire population, given enough time, it would find it's way back to the same people"

I agree that the wealthy can often be foolish with their money, appropriately it is precisely the ones who have not earned it who are usually foolish with it. The difference is that they can afford to be foolish with it.

[bfermanich]

Back to the original topic...

in terms of population ethniticity & diversity, Cobb is about 5-10 years behind Dekalb. Gwinnett is somewhere behind Cobb, but it seems to have a larger cultural diversity network than Cobb. The reason its behind Cobb is because I think it still has a larger percentage of white folks than Cobb, but that is changing. Gwinnett has a much higher ratio of hispanic/latino folks and asian folks than Cobb. While Cobb has a higher black percentage than Gwinnett. None the less, black folks are discovering Gwinnett in record numbers. I think eventually Gwinnett will become the most culturally diverse county in all of metro Atlanta, not to mention the biggest in population too. Some people even consider Gwinnett to be its own micro metro area.