South's strongest economic MSA's

[monsoon]

So you agree that Winchester, Va has a stronger economy than Houston? That Wausau, Wi and Fort Collin, Co have stonger economies than Chicago, Sacramento, Las Vegas, NYC? That Boise City-Nampa, ID, Barnstable Town, MA, Oshkosh -Neenah, WI, and Sioux Falls, SD have stronger economies than Jacksonville, San Jose and San Fransisco?

In regards to the points made in that report, I do.

[cowboytx26]

Yeah I didn't include San Antonio because I didn't think of it as a traditional "southern" city but then again I guess Austin isn't a "southern" city either my bad anyway take austin out of consideration.

I'm just curious to all others who don't agree with list like this what would be considered a legit analysis?

but Tampa and Orlando are "southern" cities? What exactly is your definition of a "southern" city?

[RiversideGator]

Go check the Fla vs NC thread. I provided the numbers and source for net domestic migration between Fla and NC. More people move from Fla to NC than the other way around.

monsoon: I wouldnt be bragging too much about getting more people from FL than NC sends to FL. Most of these people are commonly known as "halfbacks" or Yankees who had moved to FL, found it to be too hot or tropical or whatever, and then moved halfback to the North (and ended up in NC). Y'all can have them.

[Viper]

Mobile home ownership is dropping in FL thanks to hurricanes, I wonder where they are moving too?

[monsoon]

monsoon: I wouldnt be bragging too much about getting more people from FL than NC sends to FL. Most of these people are commonly known as "halfbacks" or Yankees who had moved to FL, found it to be too hot or tropical or whatever, and then moved halfback to the North (and ended up in NC). Y'all can have them.

Nobody is bragging about anything. We are talking about the reasons the report has ranked the MSAs as they did. If you are unable to hold a civil discussion I recommend you go away. As ususal your posts are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[RiversideGator]

I was being civil. You are the one rolling your eyes just now. And, you were the one who first deviated from the msa topic by attacking FL in this post:

Not if everyone moving in is working at Walmart and living in trailers. Florida does have a lot of people moving there, but I think it is mostly weather related and immigration from Latin America. I have lived in Fla, and while there is fabulous wealth, there is fabulous poverty too along with a huge number of people in marginal situations.

I assume this is an example of civility. By the way, there are rich people and poor people everywhere in the world. No area has a monopoly on this. This is part of the human condition.

[monsoon]

There was nothing uncivil about that. I addressed the claim that was made about the list being incorrect because hordes of people were moving to Florida. If you want to dispute it then post something that does such. But don't get your panties in a wad and start calling people names as you just did and do all the time on this forum. It's getting really old and tiresome.

[The_sandlapper]

but Tampa and Orlando are "southern" cities? What exactly is your definition of a "southern" city?

Don't know, guess I don't really have a "definition".

[Lady Celeste]

I hate to butt in.....

Getting back to the MSA rankingssss....ahem.....I am still surprised that some cities ranked lower than others. I'm not even considering Atlanta's rank.....I'm more so baffled as to why Jacksonville's ranking os much lower than less important cities. When I say less important, I am talking about in regards to the national economy. Jacksonville is home to some F500's and several F1000's....and it has an extremely large entry port. How many of our foreign automobiles came to the US via Jacksonville. Then again, however the rankings were compiled is based on the formula made by this group. I'm sure if I really studied the rankings I could better understand why they felt this way be I agree with their findings or not.

[Viper]

I read their methedology and suggested a few more categories of scrutiny that would better reflect the intended goal of the ranking.

[Lady Celeste]

How about adding the following factors market gowth %, population growth %, housing permits to population ratio, corporate expansion and relocation, average wage/cost of living ratio, foreign investment, value of construction, etc....

These things determine how well a local economy is doing.

I don't see how Wausau, Wi can have a better economy than Jacksonville when J-Ville just announced 2 40+ story towers within a week, has more permits pulled for housing than Charlotte and is gaining a Japanese based cargo facility that handles 800,000 20 foot containers per year and is in the midst of $1.5 billion in road construction projects just for starters.

Well population growth would not necessarily affect economic strength unless said MSA had such a low population growth rate and a high job growth rate to where eventually wages would have to increase so high to attract workers that inflation rises. That could potentially starve off continue economic growth. That was a moutful but you can gather what I'm getting at. If a MSA is economically strong, it's strong based upon it's own market....not criteria that is across the board.

Now the average wage/cost of living ratio is an interesting choice because this inclusion could actually hurt some areas more than it helps. As I said in the Urban Discussion thread about median incomes per MSA, if your housing cost are increasing faster than your wages then that does not bode well for the average citizen of said MSA. Have you ever noticed that the average cost of homes in Houston, Dallas, Charlotte and Atlanta are alot lower than some smaller MSAs.....yet median incomes in the three aforemention MSAs may be higher. This bodes well for economic strength because your average citizen will have more disposable cash for purchases that makes the local economy stronger.

Development, I feel, does help the economy however because it puts capital and value into the MSA....plus it adds tax revenue. Okay, my head is starting to hurt.....I'll sit back and see what else is written.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

How about adding the following factors market gowth %, population growth %, housing permits to population ratio, corporate expansion and relocation, average wage/cost of living ratio, foreign investment, value of construction, etc....

These things determine how well a local economy is doing.

With all due respect Viper, I believe the ability to survive an economic reccession and say, get a job are markers of economic vitality. In that regard, I'm happy to be in Charlotte over Miami or Jax. If the economy started getting really bad, a city like Jax will get hit sooner than a city like Charlotte.

[Viper]

Actually, Jax was one of the bright spots in America during the recent recession because it's economy is so diverse.

Besides that, how does all those towns I listed before surpass Jax, Houston, Las Vegas and others when those 4, plus others, are considered some of the best economies of the past several years?

[Hankster]

Besides that, how does all those towns I listed before surpass Jax, Houston, Las Vegas and others when those 4, plus others, are considered some of the best economies of the past several years?

For that very reason, I think it's fair to say that while this survey is interesting, and promotes lots of conversation, it's pretty much a bunch of bunk.

[Charleston native]

I absolutely think this study is flawed. For some reason, my hometown was ranked low even though it is considered as one of the fastest growing cities in SC. It's economy is far more than tourism, if that was one of the criteria that ranked it low. With new plants and jobs coming to the area, Charleston should have ranked higher as well.

However, I used to live in Fort Collins, and it is indeed a very popular choice for companies to locate to. The city was growing at a fast pace when I was living there, and I'm sure it hasn't slowed down. Still, I can't imagine having a stronger economy than Jax. This study is indeed flawed.

[krazeeboi]

Can someone demonstrate, using the methodology and current statistics, why his/her city should have ranked higher? On the surface, it does appear that certain cities should have ranked higher. However, until I see some type of in-depth methodological justification, I will have to accept the rankings as they are.

Here are some excerpts from the methodology that may shed some light on things:

[Viper]

Florida's big 5 doesn't have sustained economies because they've spiked year after year.

[Greens!]

"""""With all due respect Viper, I believe the ability to survive an economic reccession and say, get a job are markers of economic vitality. In that regard, I'm happy to be in Charlotte over Miami or Jax. If the economy started getting really bad, a city like Jax will get hit sooner than a city like Charlotte."""""

how diverse is Charlotte's economy? what would happen if the banking industry fell through?

and as far as growth goes, as far as considering percentages, a 3% increase in population would mean different numbers in Charlotte vs. Atlanta or Dallas. what cities grow by the most people every year?

[NcSc74]

"""""With all due respect Viper, I believe the ability to survive an economic reccession and say, get a job are markers of economic vitality. In that regard, I'm happy to be in Charlotte over Miami or Jax. If the economy started getting really bad, a city like Jax will get hit sooner than a city like Charlotte."""""

how diverse is Charlotte's economy? what would happen if the banking industry fell through?

and as far as growth goes, as far as considering percentages, a 3% increase in population would mean different numbers in Charlotte vs. Atlanta or Dallas. what cities grow by the most people every year?

Charlottes economy is quite diverse. It just seems the banks are all it has do to their high profile. If you take a closer look the are several other F500 headquaters there and also at the heart of metrolina is a large industrial and transportation hub base.

[urbanesq]

I understand the rationale behind splitting the Raleigh-Durham MSA into the separate Raleigh-Cary and Durham MSAs, but I look at the results in rankings like this and can't help but think of it as completely artificial. Raleigh and Durham still function economically, socially and culturally as a single metro area. If Durham and the RTP were included/combined with the Raleigh-Cary stats, wouldn't that push this area up past many of the others on the list? not to the very top, perhaps, but much closer.

Seems like an arbitrary, apples-to-oranges comparison to me when you look at the fact that Raleigh and Durham are no farther apart (in geographic and functional terms) than CLT & Gastonia, Dallas & Ft. Worth, Tampa & St. Pete, etc.

I'm I off base here, guys? Or do others agree?

[Martinman]

I understand the rationale behind splitting the Raleigh-Durham MSA into the separate Raleigh-Cary and Durham MSAs, but I look at the results in rankings like this and can't help but think of it as completely artificial. Raleigh and Durham still function economically, socially and culturally as a single metro area. If Durham and the RTP were included/combined with the Raleigh-Cary stats, wouldn't that push this area up past many of the others on the list? not to the very top, perhaps, but much closer.

Seems like an arbitrary, apples-to-oranges comparison to me when you look at the fact that Raleigh and Durham are no farther apart (in geographic and functional terms) than CLT & Gastonia, Dallas & Ft. Worth, Tampa & St. Pete, etc.

I'm I off base here, guys? Or do others agree?

There is no rationale behind splitting or combining MSA counties or whatever. It is purely statistical data that determines how these areas are classified. Evidently, not enough cross commuting exists between the counties for them to be considered a single MSA.

[urbanesq]

There is no rationale behind splitting or combining MSA counties or whatever. It is purely statistical data that determines how these areas are classified. Evidently, not enough cross commuting exists between the counties for them to be considered a single MSA.

right. I meant I understand the underpinnings (rationale) for the split from a technical standpoint, but think it's silly from a practical/actual/functional standpoint. I say that as someone who lives in one of the MSAs and commutes to the other every day. Also shop in both every week, consume entertainment in both on a regular basis, etc., etc.