Sounds face opposition in Metro Council

[linclink]

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...EWS01/512050340

Hey guys,

I don't know if the author of this article is biased, or if this is truly how the council will vote. But if it is, the Sounds may not be moving to downtown Nashville afterall...

My favorite part of the article was this:

But Sherry Bernier, a retired Hendersonville resident, said it would make more sense to keep the Sounds stadium away from the city's center.

"How many senior citizens are going to be able to drive downtown and walk?" she said.

WHAT!!! You've got to be kidding me that this lady wants to keep the sounds out of downtown because the seniors can't walk from the parking lot to the stadium!!! As for seniors not wanting to drive to the stadium, regardless of where the stadium gets built, won't the seniors from Hendersonville have to drive to the stadium ANYWAYS?!?!?!?!?! Is she really serious?!?!?!?! I am not from Hendersonville, so I may be wrong, but is her constituency 100% seniors?!?!?! One would think that she represents ALL of Hendersonville, not just the seniors!

Unbelievable!!!!!

[smeagolsfree]

Its a little stupid of them to bring the issue up I think. I see those senoirs all the time walking a quater to a half mile to go to a symphony concert, a hocky game, or to Demo's(local restaurant) and then to any one of the events downtown. They are just trying to stir the pot right now. There are too many forces behind the scences that want this to happen and they have considerable political clout in this town. Its just like any other thing in this city, there are those in favor and those against. Seems to be the Tennesseean is using the same names over and over agian. It may be a little closer than I thought, but the council has 30 some members and no one has done a poll to see the in favors and those against. You only have a few that s jump up and down like spoiled children when they do not get their way and its usually the liberal types and it happens all over the country.

I still do not think we have to worry about this. They are not going to let that property sit vacant much longer. When you have a few difficult people against this and they do win, then out of town developers will not want to deal with a city council that is so fickle and they will go elswhere.

If it passes on first reading then it will pass on the rest.

[ATLBrain]

I've told you all before to watch out for David Briley. Somebody(s) at the paper want(s) him to become the mayor someday. Of course, he has to appeal to his constituency of the old guard in Nashville who wouldn't know progress or an opportunity if it hit them in the head. Most of them are against any tax incentives regardless of the expected benefits. We have them in Atlanta too, but they're not as vocal... most of them have moved to Gwinnett.

I agree that the remark from the woman from Hendersonville (no less) is quite silly.

[Lexy]

Hendersonville is Nashville's retirement community anyway fellas. Shouldn't we expect this from them?

[Hankster]

I'd like to ask that woman how many times she drove down to the current Sounds stadium this past year and walked to the park. I bet absolutely zero, none, nada!!! What a blowhard!

Personally, I think this is a bunch of bunk. I think the things going to get approved.

[AceMentor]

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...EWS01/512050340

Hey guys,

I don't know if the author of this article is biased, or if this is truly how the council will vote. But if it is, the Sounds may not be moving to downtown Nashville afterall...

My favorite part of the article was this:

WHAT!!! You've got to be kidding me that this lady wants to keep the sounds out of downtown because the seniors can't walk from the parking lot to the stadium!!! As for seniors not wanting to drive to the stadium, regardless of where the stadium gets built, won't the seniors from Hendersonville have to drive to the stadium ANYWAYS?!?!?!?!?! Is she really serious?!?!?!?! I am not from Hendersonville, so I may be wrong, but is her constituency 100% seniors?!?!?! One would think that she represents ALL of Hendersonville, not just the seniors!

Unbelievable!!!!!

Not to be to critical or harsh but why should they be complaining if they're almost dead. Shouldn't they be trying to view through the eyes of the younger generations?

Sorry if I offended someone.

[Kheldane]

Interesting, it would be great if the stadium deal does fall through!

That land could be used to build a new river-front convention center or something...the city should sell it to gaylord and have them build a new Conv.Center for downtown...

Another baseball stadium is a waste of space ---no body goes to the current one anyway, well, not many people go...

[Lexy]

I see your point. And agree with some of it too!

[doormanpoet]

I just spoke with Charlie Tygard councilman for the 35th district. I was one of 3 who called him that were for the stadium and he said 23 were against. Seniors according to him were in opposition because of parking issues, transportaion issues, and cost issues. Retired Seniors in Bellevue are his largest constituents. He is much more concerned about a new convention center than a baseball stadium.

It seems seniors like to deprive people of things if they themselves are not going to use it. According to Mr. Tygard, Peabody Hotels wants to develop the property with a marina. He said his callers against were concerned about the $500,000 in maintanance fees the city would have to pay. He knows someone in Bellevue who works for Peabody Hotels and they are still looking at the land.

He also said the land where the Sounds Stadium is now is city land that will not ever be sold. It is part of the Fort Negly property. He and others are concerned on what to do with the current stadium, and the city will not sell it to a developer to put in condo's or retail. I talked to him about the resurgence of 8th Avenue and how the current Sounds Stadium is in very bad disrepair. The issue for him is access to families. He and other council members view the new Sounds Stadium as "corporate" and not family friendly.

He understands the issue for restaurant and hotel workers and how the stadium will help people like myself, he also understand who Streauver is and what their reputation is. I tols him these same seniors are not going to be around anyway! This stadium if for future generations, not people now in their 60's and 70's or older.

If the city says no to the Sounds, they had better kiss them goodbye and watch them move to Franklin. I don't want that land to sit empty. If it means a Peabody Hotel and Marina, I'll be okay with that, but they had better clean up that dumpster pile we call Greer Stadium if we keep it.

[vinemp]

My letter:

Metro Council,

Over the past year, I have read articles about the proposed downtown Sounds stadium. Having spent the best years of my life in Nashville, I want the city to continue to prosper. Thus, I am writing this letter to express my concerns.

I can understand the reticence of certain Council members to approve the downtown ballpark project based on the possibility of developing the Thermal site for other uses; however, there is also something to be said for practicality in progress. Does the Council disregard the benefits other cities have realized because of their ventures into establishing downtown minor league parks?

I find it difficult to believe the Council would ignore the recommendation of the task force it appointed to assess the potential impact of the downtown Stadium. In addition, what happens to the voices of the many downtown proprietors who have openly conferred their approval to the Sounds stadium? Does the council overlook them too?

The Council should hear all issues and take them into consideration; nevertheless, the Council's decision should be based on the greater good of the City and our Posterity--not the cursory perspective of a few.

With encouragement,

Michael Vine

[fieldmarshaldj]

Of course, we all realize that if people like Tygard opt to ignore the "angry seniors" in his district, he does it at his own peril. The reason why pols pay more attention to the seniors is a simple one, they have higher turnout on election day. Until that equation changes, they can afford to ignore the desires of the under-30 set.

[smeagolsfree]

The senoirs should just sell their homes and move to the signature Just kidding.

You do not hear that complain about the Titans games, Preditors Games or any other venue downtown including Municipal auditorium, War Memorial, T-PAC, or The Ryman. The sounds tickets will be cheaper than any of those other activities downtown. I think it is very smart to give people an option of activities all in one section of town. If they want to help the senoirs then all they have to do is offer free valet parking to anyone over the age of 65. That would be good publicity. As far as no one coming to the games now, well I do not go because I do not like the current site, the facility, and it took me 4 years after moving here to even figure out how to get there. I do not like that site or even the site for the Cumberland Science Museum. They are out of the way especially for out of town visitors who would probably go to the games if given the chance.

One thing about the Peabody proposal was that they wanted millions in city financing that they can not or will not come up with. It would end up costing the city a lot more than the Sounds proposal. As far as a convention center on the site, its already been establihed the site is too small by about half.

[Kheldane]

As far as a convention center on the site, its already been establihed the site is too small by about half.

Maybe they could combine the property with surrounding properties? Doesn't the sounds stadium plan involve developing surrounding lots as well?

You're right though, one bad thing about making it a convention center is that the property is kind of hemed in by bridges on either side, the river on the east side, and ultimately, the symphony hall on the west side. Other spots in SoBro would be better, like the large parking lots and mixed retail/wholesale properties behind the arena.

....But now back to the issue at hand....

VineMP, you wrote a well-worded letter, but your last statement about the greater good is a little off the mark. It's a fairly straightforward argument to establish that the stadium (as planned) is not in the best interest of nashvillians (as determined by every consumer in the Nashville metro). Here's a concise 10-step argument for future reference:

1) The use of goverment funds proves that sufficient private funds were not available to finance the project.

2) Private investors seek profit, thus the fact that multiple banks/investors turned the Sounds down shows that, in their opinion, the stadium is not profitable.

3) Private investors and banks have market knowledge and experience that is surperior to the metro council in areas of business

4) Based on the lack of private investment, it is given that their research into the project showed that Nashvillians were not likely to purchase enough tickets to make the stadium profitable.

5) If nashvillians are not purchasing tickets, it means they are purchasing other goods/services they value more than tickets.

6) Individual nashvillians have knowledge about their own needs/desires that is surperior to the metro council's knowledge about those individual's needs/desires.

7) The Metro government can only obtain funds by force (forcible confication of property when the owner does not pay taxes).

8) The ultimate source of metro government power in land confiscation is its police action and their ability to use guns, pepper spray, tazers, and hand cuffs on individual citizens.

9) Using points #7 and #5 proves that using government funds forces nashvillians to consume (in the economic sense) a sounds stadium instead of other varied products/services that they value more.

10) Using points #6, #8, and #9 proves that using government funds on the stadium results in a necessary lowering of nashvillians' quality of living that is enforced by police violence.

[Guest]

Wow you are certainly proud of your argument but I must remind you that just because you state,

[Hankster]

Wow you are certainly proud of your argument but I must remind you that just because you state,

[LA_TN]

Fireworks on the riverfront after weekend home games - an excellant fringe benefit for downtown

[LA_TN]

Fireworks on the riverfront after weekend home games - an excellant fringe benefit for downtown

[Onyte9]

Well it passed its first test with the council. I'm not sure where they go from here but I wish they would get this thing underway.

[smeagolsfree]

Thanks Hankster and Nashville Bound for your rebuttals.

On the note of passing the first reading. After listneing to the news, the whole matter goes to committee. The Council normally passes all items on first reading and then it goes to committee. I would bet that after that is when the fireworks start.

Maybe someone most of us know, with the media can do a poll of the council members. I think I will ask him and see what he can find out.

[Hankster]

On the note of passing the first reading. After listneing to the news, the whole matter goes to committee. The Council normally passes all items on first reading and then it goes to committee. I would bet that after that is when the fireworks start.

Maybe someone most of us know, with the media can do a poll of the council members. I think I will ask him and see what he can find out.

Does anyone know about how long the approval process generally takes and how many step are involved? It seems to me that it needs to be explained a lot better to the general public how little is really being requested of the city and how much the city should benefit from this project. I think the mayor would be the best person to lead that effort. With proper leadership and the facts revealed, this project will be approved.

[GaTechGuy]

All I know is that it has to pass vote three times. So we're a third of the way to getting this through.

[Nashvillain]

MINOR league baseball in downtown Nashville! Watch as Nashville gloriously goes where no city has gone before. Except Louisville, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City, Memphis, etc. Wow, MINOR league baseball in downtown Nashville! I just can't get over this MAJOR develepment. Now we don't even have to consider other options that are possible for this extremely valuable real estate. Did I mention we're following in the footsteps of such world-class and internationally renowned cities like Louisville and Indianapolis!? What a boost to my low sense of civic pride this MINOR league stadium will be. Not to mention we'll get another huge downtown parking lot. Great! Even better is that the Sounds just won their first championship in twenty years. I hope they can keep on winning them so people can keep on giving a (expletive deleted) about MINOR league baseball in downtown Nashville.

[rosen108]

^^^ My thoughts exactly. Doesn't anyone think that this extremely valuable property could be used for something better than a minor league stadium? How many of you have even been to a sounds game in the last couple of years? I think that minor league sports are a great thing for a developing city, but for a city that is trying to reach beyond that, i think its a waste of time, money, energy and most importantly LAND. That spot is one of the most valuable spots of undeveloped property in our city, why waste it on something like a minor league team. Who cares if we lose the sounds to franklin or somewhere else. I say take them. What about ten years from now when nashville might actually be able to support another major league team? Does our minor league stadium - smack dab in the middle of downtown - just sit there and waste space? While I know that Nashville certainly can't support another major team right now, I think that it wouldn't be too outrageous to suggest 10-12 years down the road we might. I'd rather wait out for that then waste this property on something we won't care about several years down the road.

I know that its great that there are going to be condos and extra development around the stadium....but why not just do that? Why not build more condos, a PUBLIC park, restrauants, etc on this property? I think that would revitalize the area in much better way than a minor league stadium. There are so many better things that could go on this land, why does it have to be this? While it will look really cool to have a stadium in this spot, i really don't see the draw of a triple A team. I say build a park or residential or retail or ANYTHING other than a stadium.

[NewTowner]

I have never been to a baseball game in my life, but I will definitely attend Sounds games if they relocate downtown. Their current facility has the ambience of an open-air industrial slaughterhouse. A minor-league downtown stadium built of noble materials and surrounded by human life would be great. A major league stadium would be too big.

I think that while many other uses for the Thermal site are ideaologically sound (no pun intended), let's consider one important thing: synergy. The Sounds are here now, with a vision, and backing, and they are willing to incorporate good urban fabric into their own facility. It is not a given that downtown Nashville will continue to thrive and expand. The entire area is in a sensitive phase which could regress before we get to critical mass--particularly when major energy crises pile up and discourage investment of ANY sort, ANYwhere.

These baseball fellows have fought hard for the site. They are clearly in love with it, and they have a noble idea. I no baseball fan, but I am a Nashville fan, and I believe this project and the passion surrounding it are worth embracing. My respect for the Sounds grew exponentially when I heard they were shooting for a downtown stadium at all. I myself have, over time, fallen in love with the idea of strolling by the river, hearing that roar and smelling those hotdogs.

Finally, I should like very much to point out the most excruciatingly obvious thing Sounds critics should keep in mind: there is no shortage of riverfront land in downtown Nashville. Repeat: there is no shortage of riverfront land in downtown Nashville. To me, that says it all.

[Skyscrapergeek]

^^^ My thoughts exactly. Doesn't anyone think that this extremely valuable property could be used for something better than a minor league stadium? How many of you have even been to a sounds game in the last couple of years? I think that minor league sports are a great thing for a developing city, but for a city that is trying to reach beyond that, i think its a waste of time, money, energy and most importantly LAND. That spot is one of the most valuable spots of undeveloped property in our city, why waste it on something like a minor league team. Who cares if we lose the sounds to franklin or somewhere else. I say take them. What about ten years from now when nashville might actually be able to support another major league team? Does our minor league stadium - smack dab in the middle of downtown - just sit there and waste space? While I know that Nashville certainly can't support another major team right now, I think that it wouldn't be too outrageous to suggest 10-12 years down the road we might. I'd rather wait out for that then waste this property on something we won't care about several years down the road.

I know that its great that there are going to be condos and extra development around the stadium....but why not just do that? Why not build more condos, a PUBLIC park, restrauants, etc on this property? I think that would revitalize the area in much better way than a minor league stadium. There are so many better things that could go on this land, why does it have to be this? While it will look really cool to have a stadium in this spot, i really don't see the draw of a triple A team. I say build a park or residential or retail or ANYTHING other than a stadium.

I'm sorry but I have to completely disagree. First, Nashville will never have a major league baseball team. The sport is not expanding and apparently there is no way this city will pay for another $200-$300 million stadium even if we could get another team. Secondly, why the concern over such a "valuable" piece of property now? Why did no one notice how valuable it was while there was an incinerator parked on it? There will be condos built WITH a stadium. The Streuver Bros. ARE major league when it comes to developement. It will also generate a lot of revenue. I'm not trying to be insulting but a public park would definitely "just sit there". While it is a smaller stadium, I don't think people understand how beautiful this ballpark is going to be. Again, I don't mean to be disrespectful but I have yet to hear a better idea. I drive passed parks every day with no one in them. We can put restraunts, parks and condos anywhere. Why are they more worthy than a stadium? After all, I love going to Sounds games with my father and somehow he drives all the way from Franklin to go to games...at 72! Wait a minute, maybe I should tell him senior citizens are too old and don't like to go to Sounds games.