9th Street bridge may be named for Rachel Carson

[TheGerbil]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05339/617474.stm

The third of the "Three Sisters" bridges may be getting a name soon. There is a proposal being considered to name it for Rachel Carson.

I think that would be perfect! The other two are named for an artist and an athelete, so it'd be great for the third will be named for a writer/scientist. Plus, I would be glad to see it named for a woman, since the other two are named for men.

[PghUSA]

Gerbil,

If I remember correctly about 6 months ago you called this one! I guess the question is now do you do stock pics I too am glad to see Rachel get some recognition, and your right it's nice to see a female be honored in that way!

[TheGerbil]

Yeah, I am pretty sure I did suggest her when we were talking about the bridges a while back. Maybe I should go buy a lotto ticket..

[Sundodger]

I might be confusing her with someone else but isn't she the person responsible for the deaths of millions in the third world because of a book that struck a reactionary nerve with the public? If it is the same person, they should not name the bridge after her.

[urbanophile]

I might be confusing her with someone else but isn't she the person responsible for the deaths of millions in the third world because of a book that struck a reactionary nerve with the public? If it is the same person, they should not name the bridge after her.

I assume you're referring to how Carson's book "Silent Spring" led to the banning of DDT in many courtries, thus greatly increasing the exposure of people in the third world to malaria. I guess this is the typical first world vs. third world problem. The US and Europe eradicated malaria using DDT but, when it came time for the third world to eradicate DDT, the first world was calling for a ban on its use due to concerns about its effects on the environment and its perceived effects on humans. I can see how Carson can be a very controversial figure, especially in the third world. She's often accused of being a psudo-scientists who made arguments without being able to back them up, the effects of which had unintended harmful consequences.

[herodotus]

Why not name the bridge after a former Allegheny resident like Gertrude Stein or Mary Roberts Reinhart?

[Death To Johnstown]

It would be nice if they could find a way to illuminate the Warhol & Carson bridges someday to match the Clemente...

[TheGerbil]

I would say that it isn't Carson's fault if people did the wrong thing in response to her book and inadvertantly harmed others. She was right, DDT is bad. She can't have known that people would simply ban it across the board without thinking about alternatives.

Besides, people must have got Malaria before DDT was ever used, too.

[PghUSA]

All about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ DTJ, hopefully a foundation or corporate donor will step forward . . . isn't that how the Clemente bridge got lighted?

[blueblackcat]

Why not name the bridge after a former Allegheny resident like Gertrude Stein or Mary Roberts Reinhart?

Well, for one thing Stein moved out when she was 3 and she's more associated with "the lost generation" of Americans in places like Paris than with Pittsburgh. Carson grew up and graduated from Chatham. Reinhart does deserve some recognition in Pittsburgh, I think it's weird that a Pittsburgh resident who wrote about Pittsburgh gets more recognition in New York City than in her hometown, but she did write for Broadway so... But Carson is a lot more important then either of these two and it's fair to say that in the big picture she had a lot to do with why Pittburgh started to really clean up its own environment. So she's much better connected to Pittsburgh.

[Sundodger]

It would be nice if they could find a way to illuminate the Warhol & Carson bridges someday to match the Clemente...

Naming bridges after Warhol and Carson is degrading the name of Clemente. Since you have a problem of naming bridges for worthy people, other than Clemente, stop naming them for people!

[herodotus]

Well, for one thing Stein moved out when she was 3 and she's more associated with "the lost generation" of Americans in places like Paris than with Pittsburgh. Carson grew up and graduated from Chatham. Reinhart does deserve some recognition in Pittsburgh, I think it's weird that a Pittsburgh resident who wrote about Pittsburgh gets more recognition in New York City than in her hometown, but she did write for Broadway so... But Carson is a lot more important then either of these two and it's fair to say that in the big picture she had a lot to do with why Pittburgh started to really clean up its own environment. So she's much better connected to Pittsburgh.

In what way did Carson have anything to do with Pittsburgh cleaning up?

The decisions that led to Pittsburgh cleaning up were made around 1940, and I don't recall hearing that Carson had anything to do with it.

[PghUSA]

Naming bridges after Warhol and Carson is degrading the name of Clemente. Since you have a problem of naming bridges for worthy people, other than Clemente, stop naming them for people!

What is wrong with Warhol and Carson . . . Carson's writings might have contributed to the third world banning DDT but you can't in fairness blame her for that. Would it have be more preferable that the 3rd world be dying slow cancerous deaths from DDT today then from malaria outbreaks? I am not understanding how Warhol and Carson are any less desireable?

[Sundodger]

What is wrong with Warhol and Carson . .

Warhol was a joke. Is some city going to have the Carrot Top Bridge in the future? Pittsburgh is way better than this.

Carson is indirectly responsible for genocide, cross her name off the list too.

[PghUSA]

^^isn't that somewhat like blaming Bill Gates when whole regions lose ATM access or cellphones get fried by computer viruses? Gates was the one, more then any other single man, that pushed us to this interconnectivity of every facet of our lives. I just don't see how calling out Gates is useful when a BA ATM catches a virus, the same way I don't see calling out Carson is useful over some "domino" effect of one of her theories.

As far as Andy Warhol goes, I am about as opposite as you can get from his ideals, that being said you can't deny the fact that he was probably the most influential artist of the latter 20th century, not sure what his works sell for now but they're up there. Even if one was to disagree on his influence, Pittsburgh has long ago attached itself to his permanent legacy by hosting the world's largest single-artist museum in Warhol's honor. His burial site in the southhills is could be compared to Elvis in Memphis or Jim Morrison in Paris as far as its ability to attract vistors month after month, year after year.

[PghUSA]

Carrot top? Sun, my point of view would go out the window if i used Rick 'Wild Thing' Vaughn and Clemente in the same comment, Carrot Top? C'mon lets have a discussion here apples to apples.

[blueblackcat]

In what way did Carson have anything to do with Pittsburgh cleaning up?

The decisions that led to Pittsburgh cleaning up were made around 1940, and I don't recall hearing that Carson had anything to do with it.

She is credited for basically jump starting the environmentalist movement as we know it by changing the public's views of how the use of industrial chemicals in the environment should be managed, starting with pesticides and DDT. Silent Spring is considered to be a turning point for public opinion. I think up until her time cleanup efforts in the public's eye meant something closer to prettification than anything substansive. This led the way to a lot of changes in environmental regulations. Pittsburgh didn't benefit from that any more than anyone else, but it did benefit, we all did, and she was born and educated in our city so we can recognize her.

Whether one agrees with her work and the environmental movement or they believe the chemical industry's character assasinations and PR spin, there is no question that she was a powerfull figure that changed how we think.

[blueblackcat]

^^isn't that somewhat like blaming Bill Gates when whole regions lose ATM access or cellphones get fried by computer viruses? Gates was the one, more then any other single man, that pushed us to this interconnectivity of every facet of our lives. I just don't see how calling out Gates is useful when a BA ATM catches a virus, the same way I don't see calling out Carson is useful over some "domino" effect of one of her theories.

As far as Andy Warhol goes, I am about as opposite as you can get from his ideals, that being said you can't deny the fact that he was probably the most influential artist of the latter 20th century, not sure what his works sell for now but they're up there. Even if one was to disagree on his influence, Pittsburgh has long ago attached itself to his permanent legacy by hosting the world's largest single-artist museum in Warhol's honor. His burial site in the southhills is could be compared to Elvis in Memphis or Jim Morrison in Paris as far as its ability to attract vistors month after month, year after year.

^^ I want to ditto what PghUSA said. You can go see Warhol's works prominently displayed at the Pompidou in Paris and virtually every book on 20th century art includes him and his influence on all of art. Yet Pittsburgh is where he's from and where his most important works reside. Nuff said. Someone whose not a big sports fan could say the exact opposite about Clemente vs Warhol and Carson. But they're all reknown and influential in their own ways.

About this whole DDT debate, I have read through so many flame wars on this topic that I'm not going to claim that it isn't controversial. But it's more about a clash of ideologies versus science than a clash of the facts about DDT. The view that I happen to agree with is that 1) DDT does more harm than good, which fails the benchmark test for what counts as a solution and 2) other methods of controlling malaria exist that are just as effective without the negative side effects. 3), most important of all, is that the failure of third world countries to put down malaria doesn't have anything to do with DDT or the lack thereof. They already used plenty of DDT and it didn't help, because none of these countries were able to make a significant enough commitment to get rid of ALL the malaria ALL at once no matter what the method. They would spray one area with DDT and leave others untouched, then wonder why the Malaria came back. Giving them access to DDT just to do these piecemeal non-effective solutions would do a lot to kill off other animals and cause cancers in humans but no guarantee about malaria. I have no problems linking Silent Spring to the ban on DDT because I think it was exactly what the spirit of the book intended and it was the right decision.

[Evergrey]

Maybe they could name the bridge after Donnie Iris.

[PghUSA]

^^ ) I could think of a few bridges around here that would fit the "Donnie Iris thruway" label In all seriousness though Everygrey I know other cities (such as Miami, mid-town Manhattan) have done the name thing on a grand scale (usually with major streets). It wouldn't be a bad idea to name one after Iris and others as long as it's done with some class I think it could be a great idea. I like the connection of PNC Park with Clemente Bridge and the Warhol Gallery with the Warhol bridge, likewise any Donnie Iris or Dan Marino or Gene Kelly etc. should "connect" to either their home neighborhood or something that would live in their honor (a community radio station, a pop warner field, a dance hall respectively). A good proposal I think.

[Death To Johnstown]

Naming bridges after Warhol and Carson is degrading the name of Clemente. Since you have a problem of naming bridges for worthy people, other than Clemente, stop naming them for people!

Personally, I have no problem for whom they decide(d) to name the sister bridges after. My beef, is getting the other two bridges funded to help beautify & showcase a great (and well-kept secret according to Men's Health) city.

And PghUSA, I always have hope that the Convention Center and perhaps a wealthy Hollywood "fan" of Warhol's could someday come up with some $$$...

[TheGerbil]

So, the Warhol bridge leads to his museum, and the Clemente bridge to the ballpark. Wouldn't it be nice if we could build something at the end of the Carson bridge (assuming the name is approved) that has something to do with her? Maybe a small museum about environmental issues, a memorial, or something. What IS at the end of that bridge anyway? Either end, for that matter.

[PghUSA]

9th street is the Convention Center area on the southshore (south of the Allegheny not Downtown) and doesn't Alcoa and those "lowrise" apartments stradle 9th on the northshore? It is the closest "triplet" bridge to Carson's hometown of Springdale, Pennsylvania though (ok that was a stretch lol), but she is a native of the "Allegheny Valley".

[Sundodger]

Carrot top? Sun, my point of view would go out the window if i used Rick 'Wild Thing' Vaughn and Clemente in the same comment, Carrot Top? C'mon lets have a discussion here apples to apples.

Warhol is to art as Carrot Top is comedy. Pittsburgh is a lesser city if it names significant things after him or Carson. You think a Carrot Top Bridge is insane, just as I think a Warhol Bridge is insane. Is this the best Pittsburgh has to offer?

[Sundodger]

About this whole DDT debate, I have read through so many flame wars on this topic that I'm not going to claim that it isn't controversial. But it's more about a clash of ideologies versus science than a clash of the facts about DDT.

That is another reason Carson's name shouldn't be on the bridge, she sparked the reactionary religious environmental movement that has done more harm than good.

The view that I happen to agree with is that 1) DDT does more harm than good,

Tell that to the millions who died. The use of DDT was mismanaged in the past but to allow a genocide to happen in the name of religious environmentalism is taking things to the bloody extreme.