Charlotte MLB Team Speculation

[Niner National]

I don't really have a dog in this fight (Knights are fine with me), but I don't get why is there so much angst about 'making a mistake' with the current ball park?

The city and county only have $15 million (?) sunk into the current park plus a sweetheart ($1 per year) ground lease to the team. That was a pretty small price to pay for all of the development in 3rd ward. If MLB really wants to be in Charlotte we could 1) get a stadium built at 'Charlotte Pipe Yards' or the panthers practice field (combined with a cap / plaza over the railroad to connect it to uptown) or Bryant Park combined with LRT / Streetcar and 2 ) remove the existing stadium and make it part of Bearden (which I beleive was the original plan for the park). That would give us an urban stadium with plenty of space and more greenspace downtown to boot.

I dunno, I just like to drink beer outside.

I thought the city ended up footing most of the construction bill as well?

 

I thought the city ended up investing about $40 million in the project.

[cltbwimob]

We now have the triple A Knights uptown. It's a beautiful ballpark and the attendance is great. However, this was a huge mistake by Charlotte. MLB will be expanding soon. The first choice from what I have been reading is Portland and Las Vegas with Charlotte third (or second because only one of those will be picked)

 

I am a Cubs fan and I read the Cubs message board daily. A topic about this came up a couple weeks ago. I joined in during the middle and the entire message board agree that Portland and Charlotte should be the top two choices. This is coming from Chicago fans! I explained to them about the Charlotte Knights and how Charlotte is not getting a team until at least 2030 because of this...they still insist Charlotte is the best choice.

 

Mark my words...Charlotte will regret this choice. This opens up Raleigh for getting MLB. Please don't even start with how Charlotte cannot support MLB because they can...so can Raleigh. Everybody on the Cubs board talked very highly of Charlotte and how we can easily support MLB.

 

The article about expansion was on ESPN a couple weeks ago, sorry I cannot get a link. But Tampa Bay is going to have to make a choice here shortly about a new ballpark. Many believe they will be moving...to NC. If not, we will have to wait for expansion and Portland is #1. We are not far behind.

I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 

Expansion is not very likely to happen-they've been talking about it for decades and nothing has come of it.  Furthermore, a major reason behind expansion talks in the first place was the misalignment of leagues (NL had 16 teams; AL had 14).  When they moved the Astros to the American League, that pretty much fixed that problem.  The only professional league that has more than 30 teams is the NFL with 32 probably because the NFL is the least straining league of the big 4 due to its once a week game and large regional draws.  I do not see MLB being the second league to expand to 32 teams considering it requires the most resources at the local level for proper support.

 

As for Raleigh getting a team, I do not see that either.  Raleigh-Durham has less economic resources than Charlotte (GMP, TPI, etc) and is a more oversaturated sports market than Charlotte according to a recent study.  While these studies are usually riddled with flaws, the most recent one, unlike others, took into account the presence of major college sports.  When taking into account the presence of NC State, UNC, and Duke teams along with the Hurricanes, the Triangle market is considered to be oversaturated whereas Charlotte is considered to be slightly undersaturated. 

 

Charlotte is leading the minor leagues in attendance for the second year in a row.  In some cases, the Knights draw larger home field crowds than the Tampa Bay Rays.  The Knights are very much making the case right now that Charlotte can support MLB.  In fact, my father is friends with some well-to-do individuals in the region (one of which was in the Yankees organization I might add).  They were at a Knights game the other night when they (said magnates) had a discussion about MLB in Charlotte.  The conclusion was that Charlotte is ready.

 

My bold prediction Charlotte lands the 2027 Pan Am games, builds a stadium for the games that will be converted for MLB.  The Rays will move to Charlotte the following year (2028) immediately after their lease in St Pete expires.  This is all my humble opinion, but just remember, when it happens, you heard it here first.

[kermit]

I thought the city ended up footing most of the construction bill as well?

 

I thought the city ended up investing about $40 million in the project.

 

nah, the city paid $7.25 million towards construction (from hotel occcupancy taxes which can only be used to promote tourism). CCCP kicked in $750,000 and the County contributed $8 million in 'infrastructure improvements' accoring to this article:

 

http://www.charlottemagazine.com/Charlotte-Magazine/April-2014/The-Knights-Come-Home/

 

This counts for $16 million of the $54 million construction costs (although its possible the infrastructure dollars might not be 100% dedicated to the stadium). Plus the value of the $1 per year lease (it is significant that the county still owns the land, unlike BoA stadium)

[ah59396]

I like cltbwimob's prediction. We should also have a healthy 3m+ CSA and maybe MSA by then!

[AuLukey]

Call me bitter, but I'd love for Raleigh to get an MLB team; but probably for all the wrong reasons.  They'll gloat and act like they're better than Charlotte.  And then we can all sit back and watch it crash and burn.

 

It's not that Charlotte can't support an MLB team, it's that it doesn't need to.  We have all the sports we need uptown.  That is, until we convert 277 into an eventual replacement for Charlotte Motor Speedway.

[kermit]

The Triangle might have the population but they lack the corporate juice necessary to support a major league team. State government, branch research labs and universities just aint gonna spend any dollars on suites and sponsorship.

[15895]

Call me bitter, but I'd love for Raleigh to get an MLB team; but probably for all the wrong reasons. They'll gloat and act like they're better than Charlotte. And then we can all sit back and watch it crash and burn.

It's not that Charlotte can't support an MLB team, it's that it doesn't need to. We have all the sports we need uptown. That is, until we convert 277 into an eventual replacement for Charlotte Motor Speedway.

Crash and burn as in lose games? some do give us a hard time for Panthers & especially the Bobcats (Still)

[AuLukey]

Crash and burn as in lose games? some do give us a hard time for Panthers & especially the Bobcats (Still)

More crash and burn in terms of never hitting attendance goals and losing the team after ten years, if even that many.

[mad_park]

The current BofA stadium site could be used for MLB when they have to build a new football stadium in the next 10-15 years.

[ajfunder]

^I'd rather them just build any new football stadium on the BofA site similar to what the Vikings are presently doing. That location is hard to beat and one of the best located stadiums in the NFL.

[Niner National]

The current BofA stadium site could be used for MLB when they have to build a new football stadium in the next 10-15 years.

Why do they have to build a new stadium in 10-15 years?

 

I don't see the Panthers moving out of that stadium for a long time honestly.

[ah59396]

Why do they have to build a new stadium in 10-15 years?

 

I don't see the Panthers moving out of that stadium for a long time honestly.

 

 

Look around the league.  Unfortunately, the reality is these fields have shorter and shorter lifespans as the owners continue to sink their greedy paws into the coffers of the municipalities they are in.  There are only 11 stadiums in the NFL older than BOA.  That number includes the Georiga Dome, which is being replaced and Edward Jones in St Louis, which is in the process of being replaced.  So it'll be the 9th oldest by like, 2017.

[Niner National]

Look around the league.  Unfortunately, the reality is these fields have shorter and shorter lifespans as the owners continue to sink their greedy paws into the coffers of the municipalities they are in.  There are only 11 stadiums in the NFL older than BOA.  That number includes the Georiga Dome, which is being replaced and Edward Jones in St Louis, which is in the process of being replaced.  So it'll be the 9th oldest by like, 2017.

The location for BoA is among the best in the league and with attendance for many sports waning because of high costs and ultra HD televisions, I don't think we'll really see a need for a bigger stadium.

 

I'm not saying it definitely won't happen, but I think the Panthers are less likely to move out of their current stadium than most teams. The one wildcard IMO is if South Carolina decides to drop its pants and offer them a ton of money to move over the border.

[kermit]

^nah, I think the real wildcard is who the Post-Jerry ownership is going to be. The Richardson estate is going to sell the cats for a truckload of money, so new owners will be looking for a bigger / newer / better market -- not Fort Mill where revenues will be the same (or worse) than they are now. I am not sure the Panthers could sell many more suites in the Charlotte market, even if they had them available.

 

Also keep in mind that our current state legislature said 'hell no' when Thom Tillis asked them for cash for the Panther's recent stadium upgrades. Until we have a very differnet state government (meaning when legislative districts can be redrawn) I think its clear the city will be the only entity willing to offer the Panthers any cash to stay. There is no way the city will be able to find the $billion and change it will cost to build a new stadium for the team.

Edited June 15, 2015 by kermit

[tozmervo]

Didn't the $ for the renovations come with some kind of binding stipulation that the panthers stay for at least <x> number of years?

 

In any event, I would fight the city/county giving money for a new stadium, if for no other reason than the principal of handing over tax money to an entity that clearly does not need financial support.

[Niner National]

^nah, I think the real wildcard is who the Post-Jerry ownership is going to be. The Richardson estate is going to sell the cats for a truckload of money, so new owners will be looking for a bigger / newer / better market -- not Fort Mill where revenues will be the same (or worse) than they are now. I am not sure the Panthers could sell many more suites in the Charlotte market, even if they had them available.

 

Also keep in mind that our current state legislature said 'hell no' when Thom Tillis asked them for cash for the Panther's recent stadium upgrades. Until we have a very differnet state government (meaning when legislative districts can be redrawn) I think its clear the city will be the only entity willing to offer the Panthers any cash to stay. There is no way the city will be able to find the $billion and change it will cost to build a new stadium for the team.

What market are they going to move to that is better?

 

LA is already getting a team or two. Anyone that moves a team out of Charlotte/the surrounding area is a stupid, stupid business person with absolutely no foresight. I think it is time to put to rest this "small market" fear about the Panthers. Charlotte is not really a tiny market and it is only growing. Virtually no cities match Charlotte's potential 10-20 years down the road.

 

The Panthers distribution is the 6th biggest in the NFL. Since we can claim the better part of 2 states as our market, we have an enormous television distribution that only the biggest teams beat.

 

Nobody is moving a team out of the Carolinas. It's simply not happening.

 

What benefit does a team get from a new stadium? If the stadium is getting/has gotten new scoreboards, sound systems, upgraded suites, and more....what is a new stadium location getting them?

 

 

I hope Jerry pulls a fast one on everyone and gifts his portion of the team to the PSL holders. Won't happen of course, but would be awesome.

[ah59396]

What market are they going to move to that is better?

 

LA is already getting a team or two. Anyone that moves a team out of Charlotte/the surrounding area is a stupid, stupid business person with absolutely no foresight. I think it is time to put to rest this "small market" fear about the Panthers. Charlotte is not really a tiny market and it is only growing. Virtually no cities match Charlotte's potential 10-20 years down the road.

 

The Panthers distribution is the 6th biggest in the NFL. Since we can claim the better part of 2 states as our market, we have an enormous television distribution that only the biggest teams beat.

 

Nobody is moving a team out of the Carolinas. It's simply not happening.

 

What benefit does a team get from a new stadium? If the stadium is getting/has gotten new scoreboards, sound systems, upgraded suites, and more....what is a new stadium location getting them?

 

 

I hope Jerry pulls a fast one on everyone and gifts his portion of the team to the PSL holders. Won't happen of course, but would be awesome.

 

I don't think the team will be leaving the Carolina's.  But you are crazy if you think an owner, Jerry R or whomever else, will just be content with an old stadium.  This isn't Lambeau.  The Georgia Dome is completely functional and is being replaced with a billion dollar super field.  

 

The benefit of having a super modern brand new stadium is corporate suites and having a chance to host things like a Superbowl.

[kermit]

 

I hope Jerry pulls a fast one on everyone and gifts his portion of the team to the PSL holders. Won't happen of course, but would be awesome.

Agreed. Packers 2.0 would be fantastic!

[ah59396]

Agreed. Packers 2.0 would be fantastic!

 

 

Man that would be pretty cool.

[go_vertical]

Didn't the $ for the renovations come with some kind of binding stipulation that the panthers stay for at least <x> number of years?

 

In any event, I would fight the city/county giving money for a new stadium, if for no other reason than the principal of handing over tax money to an entity that clearly does not need financial support.

They are contractually obligated to stay for six years (minus last season, so five more) and if I recall I believe the city gets an option for four more but the breakdown as to how that will work out escapes me.

[Niner National]

I don't think the team will be leaving the Carolina's.  But you are crazy if you think an owner, Jerry R or whomever else, will just be content with an old stadium.  This isn't Lambeau.  The Georgia Dome is completely functional and is being replaced with a billion dollar super field.  

 

The benefit of having a super modern brand new stadium is corporate suites and having a chance to host things like a Superbowl.

 

Does a team benefit from hosting a superbowl?

 

I don't know how our corporate suites really compare to other stadiums, but they should be like-new inside after the renovations are complete.

 

While the structure is getting relatively old, the amenities are growing. I feel like we have a stadium that was really built to age well. The sightlines are amazing, the location is stellar, and with the new upgrades, it feels like a new stadium to me.

 

I don't really think the domes in ATL or Minnesota are good comparisons though. They were built at a time when dome construction was still relatively new compared to today, causing them to not really age well.

[MilZ]

Does a team benefit from hosting a superbowl?

 

This doesn't really answer your question, but I know that Super Bowl hosts cities now agree to sacrifice at least 1 home game to the NFL International Series (so far all in London). I read somewhere that likely future bids to host would come with the same stipulation due to the increasing amount of games overseas during the season (3 currently), though take that with a grain of salt of course.

Yada, yada, full-circle... I don't see this city funding a pro baseball stadium, especially if it comes down to keeping the Panthers around at one point. Panthers would probably have to leave for Charlotte to pull off long-term support of an MLB team. Just my opinion.

[birky]

Building a new stadium is not about building a bigger stadium. It's about extracting more dollars out of fans and corporate sponsors.  With a new stadium, you can charge more for seats, more for boxes, and more to put someone's ad/banner somewhere.  And if you can get the local citizens to pay for this huge new stadium, you've just increased your annual revenue without spending a dime on construction.  Hell, there are stadiums and arenas where the city actually pays the team to manage the facility. It's insane. When JR comes back to the city in 10 years for a new stadium, we should tell him to shove it.

[Niner National]

Building a new stadium is not about building a bigger stadium. It's about extracting more dollars out of fans and corporate sponsors.  With a new stadium, you can charge more for seats, more for boxes, and more to put someone's ad/banner somewhere.  And if you can get the local citizens to pay for this huge new stadium, you've just increased your annual revenue without spending a dime on construction.  Hell, there are stadiums and arenas where the city actually pays the team to manage the facility. It's insane. When JR comes back to the city in 10 years for a new stadium, we should tell him to shove it.

Panthers more than doubled their ribbon board advertising space. The bigger scoreboards on each end now have larger advertising potential. I could be wrong, but I think they are already among the top in the league for naming rights revenue for the stadium.

 

They're now renovating boxes, so one would think they could reasonably up the price of those since they'll be like-new inside.

 

They're accomplishing pretty much everything you laid out with the existing stadium and the city still threw a lot of money in for it.

 

I could very well be wrong, but I think they'll stay where they are for a long time. I think it's location and placement in the city's skyline make it one of the more iconic stadiums in the country and that will only grow as Charlotte's reputation grows. Suburban stadiums are forgettable while ours is an anchor to the Uptown skyline.

 

Jerry and his family only own 48% of the team, so if he sells his stake, someone else is still going to have to do a lot of convincing to move the team. The others in the ownership group have deep ties to Charlotte, so I'm optimistic that people will do what I consider to be the right thing.

 

I don't see any suburban areas paying for a new stadium and I don't see the city of Charlotte agreeing to pay for a new one since the current location benefits Uptown businesses so much.

[RaleighHeelsfan]

Wow, this thread got off topic.

 

Just wanted to say I was using the wrong terms in my above post. I am not talking about MLB expansion. I am talking about relocation. Tampa Bay to NC and Oakland A's to Portland or Las Vegas. That is the talk in MLB right now. If Tampa Bay does not fund a new stadium (or someone) they are moving. Most think they will move. Everybody thinks they are Charlotte bound. That is why I started the topic a few weeks ago. The question is when is the contract up at Tropicana or whatever they call that thing the Rays play in?