Charlotte MLB Team Speculation

[jednc]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

This probably isn't directly relevant to Charlotte (particularly since we do not have a stadium) but the Angels have opted out of their Anaheim lease and are having a tough time finding willing taxpayer funds for a new ballpark in the LA area: http://www.latimes.com/sports/mlb/la-sp-angels-anaheim-lease-20181016-story.html

 

Come on over to Charlotte.

[videtur quam contuor]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

This probably isn't directly relevant to Charlotte (particularly since we do not have a stadium) but the Angels have opted out of their Anaheim lease and are having a tough time finding willing taxpayer funds for a new ballpark in the LA area: http://www.latimes.com/sports/mlb/la-sp-angels-anaheim-lease-20181016-story.html

 

Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara (49'ers) Dodger Stadium and AT&T Park for San Francisco Giants were all built without taxpayer money. Other assistance such as infrastructure, bond holding entity, cost overrun insurance and other items made the construction possible but the stadia themselves are privately owned. Such is California.

[deleted]

Unfortunately, location of teams in baseball is much more important than football because local tv money goes directly to the team.  So even being the second team in LA and actually playing in OC, there is no chance they ever leave.  Though there is also zero chance LA builds them a stadium, I could see them moving there simply for the increase in franchise value.  The Chargers and Rams both are paying huge relocation fees for the market and the impact on a baseball franchise is greater (the Angels could move for free).  That's why the Angels use the ridiculous LA Angels of Anaheim now (they wanted the LA name but were contractually obligated to keep Anaheim in the name).  I'm betting they build a new stadium anchored by a mixed use development (like the Braves) somewhere nicer in OC and drop Anaheim from the name.

There are possible relocation candidates but this isn't one of them.

[KJHburg]

Charlotte be bandied around as MLB expansion city again

https://deadspin.com/mlb-expansion-is-probably-inevitable-but-where-and-whe-1830100867?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&fbclid=IwAR3KZLeTNjLsW7AmGgylsCr1yLi4PKkPdHvfSomzqnfIsf8YDLBQxDGCq4s

[NcSc74]

I laugh at folks who don't consider Charlotte is within an hours drive of millions more people.  Come on folks get educated.

[KJHburg]

11 hours ago, NcSc74 said:

I laugh at folks who don't consider Charlotte is within an hours drive of millions more people.  Come on folks get educated.

There is over 15 million people in both Carolinas most within 3 hours drive of Charlotte.   any MLB team in Charlotte would be the Carolinas team just like the Panthers.  

[CTiger]

Problem is, nobody wants to drive more than even one hour to get to a baseball game on a weekday.  Panthers fans load up their trucks and RVs and make a whole day out of tailgating and the game.  Baseball relies on a clientele that can and will walk to the stadium from work.  Not saying Charlotte doesn't have that, but its a much different type of gameday.

[NcSc74]

7 minutes ago, CTiger said:

Problem is, nobody wants to drive more than even one hour to get to a baseball game on a weekday.  Panthers fans load up their trucks and RVs and make a whole day out of tailgating and the game.  Baseball relies on a clientele that can and will walk to the stadium from work.  Not saying Charlotte doesn't have that, but its a much different type of gameday.

True, but I always here about market size and form my past reading Charlotte is middle of the road but can get more market share if the team is good (more affiliates).   I ma positive that out of 12 million people any Charlotte based team can get a fair sized viewership.  My point is that the cities market size does not match its potential when it comes too tv's.  As for game day, I don't know many teams that do well attendance wise unless they are a legacy team or within mega-metro (6 million or more).

[Hushpuppy321]

I personally would love to see MLB in Charlotte but think that chance is very minimal & distant at best.  I'm betting on MLS in Charlotte before any MLB especially now that Tepper is interested and willing to have BOA Stadium as host facility.  This is much more doable than MLB in CLT.

[SouthEndCLT811]

1 hour ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I personally would love to see MLB in Charlotte but think that chance is very minimal & distant at best.  I'm betting on MLS in Charlotte before any MLB especially now that Tepper is interested and willing to have BOA Stadium as host facility.  This is much more doable than MLB in CLT.

Tepper might want to start making intentions public if that is the case.  St. Louis behind the CEO of Enterprise is primed to get back into the race for an expansion team.  That leaves one spot to that 28 team league they're shooting for and Austin under the current Crew owner is on track for that now that the Columbus Crew are going to be sold and stay put.  We may have missed our window for the short term, not that it's a bad thing necessarily.

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/city-board-approves-tax-incentives-for-major-league-soccer-stadium/article_95833a75-5595-5a27-a184-015325f8e494.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

Edited November 16, 2018 by SouthEndCLT811

[Nick2]

9 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I personally would love to see MLB in Charlotte but think that chance is very minimal & distant at best.  I'm betting on MLS in Charlotte before any MLB especially now that Tepper is interested and willing to have BOA Stadium as host facility.  This is much more doable than MLB in CLT.

You've got a good point that with tepper MLS is considerably more likely now but I doubt MLB is any more distant. The Carolinas are a huge and untapped market for the MLB. The knights have excellent attendance already (almost on par with the lowest attendences in the current league). If they expand the league, I think it's extremely likely that CLT gets a team. But the possibility of a relocation of the Ray's, Marlin's, As, or pirates shouldn't be overlooked.

Would it be better in the long run to invest in a true soccer stadium or attempt to use Bank of America?

[Brendan]

On 11/16/2018 at 8:32 PM, Nick2 said:

Would it be better in the long run to invest in a true soccer stadium or attempt to use Bank of America?

In 2017, I thought the MLS required expansion teams to have their own soccer-specific stadiums.   This knocked out a lot of potential cities, including Charlotte, after the city opted against using tax revenue dollars to partially fund a new stadium.

I'd love to see a 25,000-35,000 stadium in Charlotte for MLS.  

I still remember the excitement of Friday/Saturday night Carolina Lightnin' games in Memorial stadium.   I almost can smell the bratwurst and kraut.  

The team attendance was pretty good at the time -- 5,000 - 10,000 with 20,163 at the championship game. 

Carolina Lightnin' 
1981 American Soccer League Champions

 

[a2theb]

Interesting development today in terms of NC MLB

 

https://mlbraleigh.com/

[Matthew.Brendan]

Definitely a very slick site and well produced. They’ve done their homework. 

[CTiger]

14 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Definitely a very slick site and well produced. They’ve done their homework. 

Yup, you have to admit that Raleigh is much better than Charlotte at this kind of stuff.  They seemed to put a lot more effort in to the MLS bid, and I don't think Charlotte has any sort of grassroots campaign to bring MLB here.  Shame.   

Some of stats on that website are interesting to see.  Raleigh-Durham is the #1 richest metro in America without a baseball team? (I guess it depends on where you look.   I see Raleigh at $71k and Charlotte at $75k median income)

 #1 TV market without a baseball team?  (They count Charlotte as being in the Atlanta market lol.  Portland, Sacramento, Orlando are all higher but they consider them to be included in existing markets as well)   

Some of the numbers are dubious in my opinion, but the website is flashy and shows that people in the area care.

[cltbwimob]

4 minutes ago, CTiger said:

Yup, you have to admit that Raleigh is much better than Charlotte at this kind of stuff.  They seemed to put a lot more effort in to the MLS bid, and I don't think Charlotte has any sort of grassroots campaign to bring MLB here.  Shame.   

Some of stats on that website are interesting to see.  Raleigh-Durham is the #1 richest metro in America without a baseball team? (I guess it depends on where you look.   I see Raleigh at $71k and Charlotte at $75k median income)

 #1 TV market without a baseball team?  (They count Charlotte as being in the Atlanta market lol.  Portland, Sacramento, Orlando are all higher but they consider them to be included in existing markets as well)   

Some of the numbers are dubious in my opinion, but the website is flashy and shows that people in the area care.

Yeah I was looking at the website as well and their claims  seem a little suspect.  

I guess they consider Charlotte to be a regional extension of Atlanta otherwise they’d realize that Charlotte has a TV market larger than Raleigh (as does Portland; Sacramento and Orlando I do consider to be regional extensions of nearby teams).  If Charlotte is a regional extension of Atlanta’s market then why is Raleigh not considered a regional extension of DC’s market in their minds?  The distance between Raleigh and DC is about the same as the distance between Charlotte and Atlanta.  The TV ratings are not hidden by the way, I googled the Nielsen ratings and found September 2018 rankings (not out of date either) and Charlotte was a couple spots above Raleigh.

There is a grassroots movement to bring MLB to Charlotte led by a guy named Rick Curti.  Admittedly his sites don’t look as good as the Raleigh MLB website, but he has been at it for about 7 years and he gets tons of interviews from the local media about his efforts.  In my opinion he just needs some creative types to help him craft his pages a little better.

Here is the Facebook page:

https://m.facebook.com/cltbats/

[a2theb]

50 minutes ago, CTiger said:

Yup, you have to admit that Raleigh is much better than Charlotte at this kind of stuff.  They seemed to put a lot more effort in to the MLS bid, and I don't think Charlotte has any sort of grassroots campaign to bring MLB here.  Shame.   

Some of stats on that website are interesting to see.  Raleigh-Durham is the #1 richest metro in America without a baseball team? (I guess it depends on where you look.   I see Raleigh at $71k and Charlotte at $75k median income)

 #1 TV market without a baseball team?  (They count Charlotte as being in the Atlanta market lol.  Portland, Sacramento, Orlando are all higher but they consider them to be included in existing markets as well)   

Some of the numbers are dubious in my opinion, but the website is flashy and shows that people in the area care.

Yeah but their TV market is the Nats and O's so they do have a baseball team .......

[CTiger]

1 hour ago, cltbwimob said:

I guess they consider Charlotte to be a regional extension of Atlanta otherwise they’d realize that Charlotte has a TV market larger than Raleigh (as does Portland; Sacramento and Orlando I do consider to be regional extensions of nearby teams).  If Charlotte is a regional extension of Atlanta’s market then why is Raleigh not considered a regional extension of DC’s market in their minds?  The distance between Raleigh and DC is about the same as the distance between Charlotte and Atlanta.  The TV ratings are not hidden by the way, I googled the Nielsen ratings and found September 2018 rankings (not out of date either) and Charlotte was a couple spots above Raleigh.

This is also limited to US cities, while I believe the MLB has awknowledged that Montreal would be heavily considered for an expansion team.  I have no doubt that Montreal's TV market is bigger as well.

[Matthew.Brendan]

Bring back the Expo's ????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Expos

[Hushpuppy321]

Raleigh’s MLB Drive is very good and I think Charlotte hurt its chances with the MiLB Stadium.  I know there’s been many comments on upgrading the Stadium but I think the sites just too small.  Also I spoke to a coworker who know about the baseball business and he said if CLT gets MLB then ,the Knights would probably leave town.

[jednc]

I was in Tampa over the long Easter weekend and considered going to a Rays game since they were in town over the weekend. Honestly, I couldn't bring myself to go spend several hours in that bunker called Tropicana Field when the weather was so nice outside (a little windy, but sunny and not too hot). I can understand why they want a new stadium and I understand the impulse to look at other markets if something can't be worked out there. With that said, I don't want the Rays to relocate to Charlotte (as much as I'd like Charlotte to have MLB). I don't want Charlotte to profit from another city's misfortune. Tampa is a nice city with great people, so I hope something can be worked out with the Rays. Still, I hope Charlotte gets an MLB bid figured out and begins serious pursuit of a team.

[cltbwimob]

9 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Raleigh’s MLB Drive is very good and I think Charlotte hurt its chances with the MiLB Stadium.  I know there’s been many comments on upgrading the Stadium but I think the sites just too small.  Also I spoke to a coworker who know about the baseball business and he said if CLT gets MLB then ,the Knights would probably leave town.

Sure, the Raleigh MLB website looks good, but it’s riddled with errors and somewhat misleading comparisons.  For example they state that Raleigh–Durham is growing at a higher rate than Charlotte.  In percentage terms, that statement is true, but Charlotte is growing faster in raw numerical terms.  So Charlotte is not only bigger than Raleigh-Durham, but the population gap between Charlotte and RDU is widening in favor of Charlotte.  

They also go to some in depth discussion about how Raleigh-Durham’s CSA is the appropriate metric for measuring the extent of their market size (again this is true IMO) but compare it to Charlotte’s MSA rather than Charlotte’s CSA.  Even so, as stated aboveCharlotte’s MSA-never mind Charlotte’s CSA- is again bigger than the entire RDU CSA and is numerically growing faster so the population gap is widening.  These facts though, were left out of the narrative and there are other obfuscations as well.

7 hours ago, jednc said:

I was in Tampa over the long Easter weekend and considered going to a Rays game since they were in town over the weekend. Honestly, I couldn't bring myself to go spend several hours in that bunker called Tropicana Field when the weather was so nice outside (a little windy, but sunny and not too hot). I can understand why they want a new stadium and I understand the impulse to look at other markets if something can't be worked out there. With that said, I don't want the Rays to relocate to Charlotte (as much as I'd like Charlotte to have MLB). I don't want Charlotte to profit from another city's misfortune. Tampa is a nice city with great people, so I hope something can be worked out with the Rays. Still, I hope Charlotte gets an MLB bid figured out and begins serious pursuit of a team.

I don’t like the idea of profiting from another city’s misfortune necessarily, but in TB’s case (Miami’s as well) the cities are not supporting the teams they have.  So I don’t view it as much as us potentially profiting from another city’s misfortune as much as I think of it as the Rays are an asset that the city largely doesn’t value, and therefore if they did move to Charlotte they would simply be losing something that they, as a city, largely ignore and are apathetic toward.  Florida, despite its substantial metro areas just isn’t a good market for MLB.

I will say that I’d rather have a NL team in the same division as the Braves and the Nats than an AL team like the Rays.  The rivalries would be so natural geographically.   However, I will support any MLB team regardless of league affiliation if/when one comes to Charlotte.

[jednc]

3 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

Sure, the Raleigh MLB website looks good, but it’s riddled with errors and somewhat misleading comparisons.  For example they state that Raleigh–Durham is growing at a higher rate than Charlotte.  In percentage terms, that statement is true, but Charlotte is growing faster in raw numerical terms.  So Charlotte is not only bigger than Raleigh-Durham, but the population gap between Charlotte and RDU is widening in favor of Charlotte.  

They also go to some in depth discussion about how Raleigh-Durham’s CSA is the appropriate metric for measuring the extent of their market size (again this is true IMO) but compare it to Charlotte’s MSA rather than Charlotte’s CSA.  Even so, as stated aboveCharlotte’s MSA-never mind Charlotte’s CSA- is again bigger than the entire RDU CSA and is numerically growing faster so the population gap is widening.  These facts though, were left out of the narrative and there are other obfuscations as well.

I don’t like the idea of profiting from another city’s misfortune necessarily, but in TB’s case (Miami’s as well) the cities are not supporting the teams they have.  So I don’t view it as much as us potentially profiting from another city’s misfortune as much as I think of it as the Rays are an asset that the city largely doesn’t value, and therefore if they did move to Charlotte they would simply be losing something that they, as a city, largely ignore and are apathetic toward.  Florida, despite its substantial metro areas just isn’t a good market for MLB.

I will say that I’d rather have a NL team in the same division as the Braves and the Nats than an AL team like the Rays.  The rivalries would be so natural geographically.   However, I will support any MLB team regardless of league affiliation if/when one comes to Charlotte.

Fair points. I actually have no idea what Rays' attendance figures are. I did eat a late lunch near the stadium and saw a dad bring his daughter and son, both of which were decked out in Rays' gear, which shaded my feeling about getting a team from another city. Tough to think about disappointed kids. I do want a team in Charlotte, so don't expect my to cry too hard if some team relocates.

[dylansukkert]

Miami Marlins attendance tonight was 6,306. Charlotte Knights attendance tonight was 8,185. 

[kermit]

1 hour ago, dylansukkert said:

Miami Marlins attendance tonight was 6,306. Charlotte Knights attendance tonight was 8,185. 

Ticketed attendance, sure. Actual attendance at the knights tonight was maybe 2,500 (I was there) 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by kermit