Charlotte MLB Team Speculation

[KJHburg]

The billionaire from Charleston who tried to buy the Panthers could be an owner possibility if he was interested.  Plus Tim Sweeney of Epic Games could write the check if he was interested.  But he is based in Cary but the tie in with Fortnite and other games could be interesting.  

[Hushpuppy321]

Triangle Business Journal today had mentioned that The Triangle MLB odds are a long shot at best.  I think Charlotte is in that same (NC) boat…

[Take2]

Ok was wondering when Charlotte would play our quite often game of,  "Charlotte is about 10yrs away from being able to support an MLB team" It was maybe 1994 the first time.

   Teams I can remember we thought we might get or that actually mentioned Charlotte as a potential move for a ream.... Milwaukee Brewers, Tampa Bay,  Minnesota Twins (though the  Triad actually had a referendum for the Twins to locate there contingent on Triad and building a stadium. The vote was NO obviously.  L.A Angel's, TB, TB, TB.... Montreal Expos who in the end chose D.C. ... any teams I've overlooked?

[kermit]

On 3/25/2005 at 9:55 AM, atlrvr said:

I don't think there is much chance within the next 15 years, barring someone with a lot of cash to move and existing team here and to pay for the stadium. Charlotte doesn't have the pop. yet to support three teams.

I quote this only to say, its now been 18 years since this post earlier in this thread. Atlrvr was not wrong.

The Athletic had a series of articles on MLB expansion this week. The MLB commissioner has said he hope to add two teams, and two teams look very likely to relocate in the near future (Oakland and Tampa Bay). The Athletic profiled (what they said were) the four most likely destinations for these teams  (Portland, Las Vegas, Nashville and Montreal), Charlotte got a brief mention as an expansion candidate, but that was it. 

All four of the cities profiled have sites, and financing and ownership issues mostly worked out. Meanwhile I have heard no local scuttlebutt about MLB possibilities in terms of sites, how to pay for a ballpark or likely ownership (no one local comes to mind these days). I does not appear that anyone is working to make MLB happen in Charlotte.

FWIW, Off the top of my head, I believe we are larger than Atlanta was when they became a four sport town back in the 1980s when the Flames existed. Having said that, major league sports certainly require more revenue now. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by kermit

[Richhamleigh, DC]

If MLB ends up in TN I'd be pissed.  We have nearly 11 million people in NC, the biggest state without MLB with two cities bigger than Nashville.  Our cities are growing rapidly vs TN where Nashville  is the only high growth location.  I'd rather see Las Vegas and Montreal.  Otherwise, this will be yet another example of NC's tendency to sell itself short and forfeit assets to adjacent states.

[KJHburg]

I am not sure why Nashville would be so high on the MLB list either.  the metro area is smaller much smaller than Charlotte's.  Is it because they only have a NFL, MLS and NHL teams? We have just an NFL MLS and NBA team.   They are between the Reds to the north in Cincy and Braves to SE in Atlanta.  The Carolinas are a much larger market than a TN or TN KY market.  Las Vegas is an unusual market as it is so tourist driven but outside the metro area it is desert with no people.  Maybe MLB should allow the 2 teams to relocate but not expand.    I do understand the lack of ownership and will.  But what about  a MLB team in Raleigh?

Edited January 22, 2023 by KJHburg

[jednc]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

 But what about  a MLB team in Raleigh?

Shut your damn mouth! (seriously joking)

[kermit]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

But what about  a MLB team in Raleigh?

Without actually looking at the numbers I would guess that the Triangle lacks the corporate money necessary to pay for the high-end portions of major league sports (I mean, gezzz their arena naming sponsor is a bank with Pittsburgh in the name). Whats worse is the corporate money that is in the Triangle is either foreign or tech, two sectors that are not particularly keen on baseball.

 An MLB team probably isn’t going to get many sponsorships from the NC Department of Revenue or the NCSU Department of Anthropology.

I have never been to a Canes game, who are the luxury suite tenants there?

Edited January 22, 2023 by kermit

[KJHburg]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

Without actually looking at the numbers I would guess that the Triangle lacks the corporate money necessary to pay for the high-end portions of major league sports (I mean, gezzz their arena naming sponsor is a bank with Pittsburgh in the name). Whats worse is the corporate money that is in the Triangle is either foreign or tech, two sectors that are not particularly keen on baseball.

 An MLB team probably isn’t going to get many sponsorships from the NC Department of Revenue or the NCSU Department of Anthropology.

I have never been to a Canes game, who are the luxury suite tenants there?

I agree with that but how deep is the corporate sponsorship in Nashville outside of the NFL and NHL and MLS teams they already have?

3 hours ago, jednc said:

Shut your damn mouth! (seriously joking)

I would rather a team go to Raleigh Durham than to Nashville thats all I am saying.  Charlotte is larger than Nashville metro with plenty of corporate sponsors and of course larger than Raleigh Durham.   Is Luke Bryan or Luke Combs going to be a corporate sponsor of a team in Nashville?   I don't believe Nashville is a good market given their 3 pro sport teams now.  

[15895]

Isn’t Nashville called something like Nashvegas or something? I think what they lack in number, they make up for in being a destination? Not sure if that matters but maybe it could be a case? 

[Rufus]

A team may decide to go to Nashville, but considering they shot down their transit referendum, the saga with Nashville FC stadium, and the fact that the Titans are seeking public money for their new stadium, I doubt the city or its people will vote to give yet another sports team public funds. 

[kayman]

Tourism or not, Charlotte sports market area for a MLB franchise for both North Carolina and South Carolina (nearly 17 million people between the two states), is way larger and wealthier than a potential market around Nashville which is barely 10 million amongst the Tennessee Valley region of Northern Alabama (Huntsville-Decatur-Florence DMA), all of Tennessee, and the central and western 2/3rds of the Commonwealth of Kentucky.  Charlotte is the central location and largest DMA in the Carolinas so it would have no choice but locate here to maximize revenue potential.  The MLB would also score here in Charlotte considering the AAA Charlotte Knights franchise is a solid, well attended franchise if the most frequent with sold out home games.  

[Bolt]

Raleigh has better demographics for MLB.  Check out the blog #raleighondeck.  Hard to argue with the facts.  Need a billionaire though.  

[kayman]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Raleigh has better demographics for MLB.  Check out the blog #raleighondeck.  Hard to argue with the facts.  Need a billionaire though.  

Nope. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by kayman

[Hushpuppy321]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Raleigh has better demographics for MLB.  Check out the blog #raleighondeck.  Hard to argue with the facts.  Need a billionaire though.  

Where would a good location in Raleigh or Charlotte be for a Stadium though, any takers…?  Both cities have their Pros and Cons.  I do believe that if an MLB decision had to be made in the next 2 to 5 years that NC would get shafted definitely bc it seems like there’s no organized effort by any potential owner.  Now maybe once Tepper finally settles into his ownership roll and the new stadium issue is addressed he’d venture into MLB like 10/15+ years from now, barring all that, I think MLB coming to the State is a very long shot.  What about Bruton/Marcus G Smith…..?

[J-Rob]

Bruton Smith passed away. I don't know about Marcus or his brothers. I think the expansion fee that will be required for MLB (expected to top $2B) might limit the potential pool of owners to the most elite billionaires. Based on how their MLS bid went, I don't know the Smith family could pull off MLB expansion, but I would love to have a baseball team in Charlotte. Maybe someone should pitch moving Tampa Bay to the failed Panthers HQ site. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by J-Rob

[videtur quam contuor]

For a city as large as Charlotte our "richness" quotient is lacking. A search of Charlotte billionaires reveals none, or suspect individuals. Michael Jordan does not live here, nor Tepper. Their connection is the investment they made and little to nothing else. Neither had a connection of any kind here before the team investment. CD Spangler was on the Forbes list prior to his death but his fortune has been dispersed to family members, charities and trusts and if there is a billionaire Spangler I cannot identify one. Same for Bruton Smith and his heirs and businesses. There is a cluster of high worth billionaires in the Triangle. They are all in the high technology sector.

If we are waiting for a billionaire to act for us we may be in for a long wait.

edit: the Levine family qualifies as billionaires though I am unsure how concentrated the wealth is in the hands of an individual who can act unilaterally. In any case, philanthropy and naming rights has always been their modus operandi and not sporting ventures.

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by tarhoosier

[J-Rob]

Here is an article back from 2017 listing potential buyers for the Panthers. In my uniformed opinion, Tepper is the most likely party on this list to consider MLB, because of his existing sports interest in Charlotte, but that seems unlikely to me. Charlotte FC was a nice bolt-on to the Panthers because the use the same stadium. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2023/02/22/charlotte-center-city-partners-uptown-real-estate.html

One name not on the list above is Ben Navarro from Charleston, who was apparently a serious bidder. 

https://www.wcnc.com/article/sports/potential-buyer-ben-navarro-visits-carolina-panthers/275-534415069

The reason I doubt that Charlotte gets a team is because the Panthers were a known commodity when it was for sale. I am not sure I see anyone outside of maybe Tepper having the drive to start a team from scratch, and again, even that seems unlikely.

[kermit]

I got the vibe from the Smith MLS bid that it pushed the limits of their family fortune. They also made it clear they wanted a more 'modern' (demographically younger) sports asset than NASCAR, I am not sure MLB would be considered to be that.

On 2/22/2023 at 11:31 PM, Hushpuppy321 said:

Where would a good location in Raleigh or Charlotte be for a Stadium though, any takers…? 

I think there are still some pretty good sites for MLB in Charlotte, although I'll admit I have not done anything more than superficially glance at google maps to pick these out:

Charlotte:

• Current Pipe Foundary land or current BoA site (which ever one Tepper decides not to use)
• Panthers practice fields uptown (may not be big enough)
• Bryant Park area
• Wilmore (former mill site, heavily contaminated, at Summit and tracks. NCDOT may have an option here for expanded rail yard)
• Backside of Savonia Mill property (this is probably too difficult to get to and I think Portman has multifamily plans for it)
• Any number of strip center cites along Freedom Drive (these feel a bit peripheral but great access to I-85)
• Southern Metals site (tracks and Odell Ross rd not far from airport -- also hard to access)
• Brookhill site? (ground leas duration corresponds to the lifespan of a modern stadium?)
• Multiple sites on Wilkinson, beside the NS tracks (Sam Auto Salvage, etc.)

and on the east side of town which is less desirable for baseball due to the lack of a skyline view

• Railyard / future Queens Park area
• Sugar Creek area

Nearly all of these sites would offer huge spillover real estate development opportunities (a la the Battery in Atlanta)

I know less about Raleigh but

• Gov Morehead School and Central Prison sites are sort of in play
• There are two rail yards to the north of downtown which are likely to be downsized or eliminated (one NS, one CSX)
• A significant number of underutilized parcels between downtown and I40 to the South
• Peace and Meridith may fall victim to demographic declines in college age kids? (I don't have any idea how either college is doing currently)
• The standard Triangle area suburban bullcrap (these sorts of locations are why this Durham raised hockey fan has never seen the Canes play at home)

Edited February 25, 2023 by kermit

[kermit]

The AP has a story on expansion today. Charlotte is mentioned as one of five potential candidates (Salt Lake City is the new addition to the, now familiar, list of four). I would say the Charlotte blurb is noteworthy in what it does not say — absolutely nothing about ownership or a stadium, things that all of the other candidate cities appear to have put work into. I have consistently gotten the feeling that nothing is happening behind the scenes in Charlotte.  IMO, MLB ain't coming to town, but I guess we can content ourselves with paying MLB beer prices at AAA games.

Quote

CHARLOTTE

Pros: The most populous U.S. metro area among the potential candidates at more than 2.7 million. A natural rival for the Braves but far enough away not to infringe on Atlanta's attendance.

Cons: MLB is not likely to add two Southern teams in such close proximity, and Nashville appears to have a head start on Charlotte.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-another-domino-falls-road-195338414.html

Edited April 22, 2023 by kermit

[KJHburg]

Who is this potential owner in Nashville?  I don't know if they have the money to fund a baseball stadium in addition with what they are doing with their new Titans domed stadium.  They have so many infrastructure needs in Nashville I am just not sure they can afford it unless it is mostly privately financed.  

In terms of possible Charlotte locations First and Second Wards have acres of empty land but I am not sure we would get one here.  It makes sense in a lot of ways but not sure who would pay for it and what owner would step forward.  

[Hushpuppy321]

What’s you guys thoughts on the possible A’s move from Oakland to Las Vegas?  Seems like Oakland is getting screwed majorly and I can see the same sentiment if the Devil Rays move somewhere else from St. Petersburg.  That stadium and surrounding area (immediate vicinity) I was not impressed with when I was there last year.  Still - I think if Charlotte did get a Relocated team (Like the Rays), location would be everything.  It should be Uptown or in SouthEnd.  

[videtur quam contuor]

In the last five years Oakland has lost MLB Athletics, NBA Warriors, and NFL Raiders. It is more than a baseball issue. 

[kermit]

5 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

In the last five years Oakland has lost MLB Athletics, NBA Warriors, and NFL Raiders. It is more than a baseball issue. 

You are (as always) correct, Oakland has more than a baseball issue, but its not an issue of economics. I believe Oakland has been one of the most rapidly growing large urban areas in California over the past decade in terms of income (poor people getting displaced out of Oakland as the ‘slightly wealthy’ seek refuge from oppressive costs everywhere else in the Bay Area).

I think the tide has really turned against public financing for major league sports (see the Bears Arlington Park move, SoFi or San Diego) although I am not sure how this translates to the ‘thirsty for recognition’ Sunbelt cities. In this sense, I am surprised that Charlotte appears to be doing nothing for MLB expansion, not too long ago we were grasping at any straw that might help make us more ‘world class’ and the baseball history in this region would put baseball pretty close to the top of Charlotte's most desirable bobble to demonstrate world class status list.

I guess this is just the latest example of the lack of local leadership on issues related to growth. The old "Charlotte way' of civic  growth projects (some sound, some not) being led behind the scenes by folks like Hugh McColl and Rolf Neil is clearly a thing of the past.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by kermit

[videtur quam contuor]

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/davidson/2023/04/23/what-to-know-about-the-2-1b-titans-stadium-deal-ahead-of-final-vote/70131849007/

https://twitter.com/jc_bradbury/status/1650123863043309568?s=20