Tall House site at 45 Ionia

[joeDowntown]

I agree that variety in architecture is great, and that trying to replicate the past very rarely works (although the Bank of Holland did a good job), but this building reminds me a bit too much of 50 Monroe, which to me, looks like a "cool" office building from the eighties.

If they really focus on design and don't build something that will date itself, I am all for almost any style. Scratch that... Nothing that looks like the Art Museum please.

Joe

I disagree that this project should look like other building in the neighborhood. I used to feel that way, but for one thing, to make them as ornate, the cost is WAY too high. And look at 70 Ionia, they tried to mimic the neighborhood with a little modern twist, and we all know how that turned out.

[GRCentro]

this building reminds me a bit too much of 50 Monroe, which to me, looks like a "cool" office building from the eighties.

My thoughts exactly; it's too massive and would be better slimmed down above the first few floors.

I'm not a fan of the heavy horizontal lines.

And I'm not quite sure what to think of the arbitrary balcony extrudes.

I do like the idea of a rooftop garden, especially if it could be planted to be green all year round.

I think the sleek blue glass could be very attractive in contrast to the red brick street and all the surrounding brownstones.

I LOVE underground parking!

[RustTown]

I don't want to rain on the parade, but the design looks very cheap and "heavy" if anyone knows what I mean. There are good ways to do modernism for residential buildings, and I don't like this interpretation. Even though it is a long building, they should have either tried to accent it vertically, or do better accenting it horizontally besides the plain, horizontal concrete bands.

Regardless, it will be good for the area. I'm just hoping this undergoes some major changes before shovels break ground.

[GRDadof3]

Oh, and I like the fact that it was designed by a woman But it does need some work.

BTW: It's hard to tell on here, but in the rendering in the paper, the cropped corner at the top right is mirrored on the back left side.

[snoogit]

Question for those of you familiar with downtown zoning: What's up with the building's setback here? I would have thought something pushed out to Ionia would be more "urbane".

My (completely uneducated) guess is that they don't want the enterance of the Van to be shadowed during the day.

[superNOVA]

I really like it. Yes, it may be too modern for the Heartside but the Heartside could use something like this.

It seems as if people here only like to complain. Yes, every project has issue, yet none are perfect. Every single project in GR is met with resistance - is this the urban NIMBY movement or what. I am just happy to see a lot of major development downtown - from what I am used to I am happy to get what I can get.

The bottom line is this. This project offers retail, residential, and office space. Perfect if you ask me. Actually it is a very good place for a condo building - just wondering why they waited so long.

Having been in this town for some time I will take what I can get.

[snoogit]

I love it, I hope its approved soon. I think a lot of GR development will be these type of buildings, 10-15 story buildings.

[joeDowntown]

That is why it is called a "Forum" Supernova. If we didn't all have a strong point of view on downtown development, no one would be here. Enough said.

Joe

I really like it. Yes, it may be too modern for the Heartside but the Heartside could use something like this.

It seems as if people here only like to complain. Yes, every project has issue, yet none are perfect. Every single project in GR is met with resistance - is this the urban NIMBY movement or what. I am just happy to see a lot of major development downtown - from what I am used to I am happy to get what I can get.

[torgo]

This is great! I always wanted to see Ionia filled in on the west side of the street. I love to seeing parking lots bulldozed for mixed use projects!

[GR_Urbanist]

I really like it. Yes, it may be too modern for the Heartside but the Heartside could use something like this.

It seems as if people here only like to complain. Yes, every project has issue, yet none are perfect. Every single project in GR is met with resistance - is this the urban NIMBY movement or what. I am just happy to see a lot of major development downtown - from what I am used to I am happy to get what I can get.

The bottom line is this. This project offers retail, residential, and office space. Perfect if you ask me. Actually it is a very good place for a condo building - just wondering why they waited so long.

Having been in this town for some time I will take what I can get.

I can understand that point of view, superNOVA. This a very critical time for this city as it is trying to craft a new image for itself in the 21st century. Every one of these projects will help make or break that makeover as each one of these projects gets almost front page news in the press. A turkey of a building could sour enthusiasm for the whole area. One only needs to look at some of the buildings made in the 70s to see what a buzzkill they were to the downtown area. If we didnt offer any critism for bad design and ideas, or hold up examples of good, we'll get more MochDonalds and Azzarvilles and thus a dimished downtown in the long run.

I for one would like to see more renderings for this project. My gut reaction was the same as many others in the fact that it looked way too out of place and was setback too far from the street. Maybe a diffrent view will show its relationship to the rest of the area better. But I'm sure were all glad for the project going forward even if it's not 100% perfect. Nobody will cry for the loss of a parking lot!

[GRDadof3]

I don't believe we should "take whatever we should get". However, I don't think this design is that bad at all, and it accomplishes many of the goals we all share here. Even the best cities in the world have a few (or maybe quite a few) turkeys they aren't proud of.

[superNOVA]

Out of place. It is next to the arena... Is the arena out of place?

[Rizzo]

I just hope this project dosen't just vanish like many of them do as a little time goes by.

[blueradon]

I really like it, and I think it will add a lot of character to downtown. And assuming that it will be taller than van andel, I think it will catch people's eyes on the s-curve (but hopefully they will not hit the wall on the curb lol)

[baronium]

I love the concept of this project. It's a mixed use building with all important residential. The height is ideal for this area. I'm just not crazy about the design. The arena seems to fit well in the area because of it's use of brick. It also contains modern design elements and plenty of glass, but the brick anchors it to the area.

This new building seems to be more suited to a river front location. Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled such a project is coming to the heartside area, I just wish the design was a little more in keeping with old town.

[snoogit]

My guess is in order to get it approved its going to have to change to brick over the white concrete clad stuff thats on it now.

[Prankster]

I love the concept of this project. It's a mixed use building with all important residential. The height is ideal for this area. I'm just not crazy about the design. The arena seems to fit well in the area because of it's use of brick. It also contains modern design elements and plenty of glass, but the brick anchors it to the area.

This new building seems to be more suited to a river front location. Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled such a project is coming to the heartside area, I just wish the design was a little more in keeping with old town.

My opinion is I love the concept, but the actual building looks like circa 1980 - 1985. It is great that these kind of projects are coming around, but that is no reason to turn our back on good design.

[Mark Miller]

The rendering of this project, posted on December 10, should be cause for concern.

In an urban setting, or any setting for that matter, it is appropriate for a retail/mixed-use building to have a zero set-back at the street. This zero set-back means that it is right up next to the right-of-way, no plaza, no landscaping, just sidewalk. It is difficult to determine if this building accomplishes that or not. It would appear that it does not.

This setback guideline is a general rule and obviously there are always exceptions to this rule, but these exceptions should be utilized sparingly and should not exceed five feet. The setback guideline is a historical precedent that is proven time and again. It has worked for centuries and it continues to work, in all locations, whether it is in Manhattan or at a rural four corners (with a general store).

Here is a photo of the zero setback in a rural setting. This building, in Dixboro, has the exact same site disposition as the trust building in GR- zero setback from the right of way. This zero setback condition works for both ends of the spectrum, in the rural and in the urban.

RURAL

URBAN

As far as the building architecture is concerned, it is certainly a good idea to have a mix of styles in an urban setting, including modern design. This building clearly looks like it is a vintage 1980's building and misses the mark of trying to create true modern architecture.

We need modern architecture, but we also need architects who can do modern architecture.

Compare this creation with the 48 Williams proposal from Lott3Metz. One is much more "modern" than the other. The 48 Williams building has clearly pushed the envelope, which is what modernism should be doing.

[MJLO]

I actually like the design, I know i'm in the minority, But i really do think it will make a great addition to Ionia, I think if built, It will give that neighborhood quite a classy feel!

why is it that people cant seem to design buildings in this town that everyone agree's on?

[GRDadof3]

MJLO, it's not just GR, it's everywhere Look at the eight gazillion proposals for rebuilding the World Trade Center in NY (have they settled on a final design yet?).

I agree that with the lower portion of this building sticking out and probably right to the sidewalk, and the tower portion set back, it looks like an 80's hotel. Think of a more modern Days Inn.

Since this design is in the Heartside Historic District, I'm sure it will be subject to the GR Histroric Preservation Commission. Here are their guidelines for infill:

http://www.ci.grand-rapids.mi.us/index.pl?binobjid=1401

(this attachment was for the City Centre ramp site)

Article 16 of the GR Zoning Ordinance

Before everyone jumps all over this developer and design, let's try not to scare them away

[Nitro]

why is it that people cant seem to design buildings in this town that everyone agree's on?

You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people none of the time.

Architecture is way too subjective. What is pleasing to your eye may not be pleasing to another's. If you tried to design the building in a historical style you'd piss off all of the contemporary critics and vice versa.

I agree with GR Town Planer (Mark is that you??) We need more architects that can design in a contemporary style. Unfortunately this is usually relegated to the starchitects commanding huge fees and even bigger construction costs to create something that tracks off of normal. Look at the phenomenon of every major city desiring a Calatrava, Meier or a Gehry.

Architectural style is hard to talk about in the present tense. Styles are usually named way after they happen. It is difficult if not impossible to pin point what the style of the now is and what its parameters are.

I hope the GRAM continues to be controversial. We could use a bit of good architectural dialog in this neck of the woods. Maybe we can get the press to wake up to the fact that we could use an architectural critic.

Nitro

[GRDadof3]

Regardless of anyone's personal tastes, the infill guidelines set forth by the Historic Commission speak HIGHLY of the building relating to the neighboring structures. The fact that the tower sits back from the existing buildings (Ledyard) North of it:

...will probably send them back to the drawing board. I would bet my last dollar that the reason the tower is set back is because of Weston Apartments across the street. They are afraid that when it comes time to market these condos, they are going to get a lot of resistance from people not wanting to look right out their windows at subsidized housing. Although it didn't seem to dampen sales at CityView looking out at Morton House.

For those of you familiar with the area, imagine a tower as tall as McKay Tower in this picture, but not pushed out to the street

BTW: the arena fits into that area very well. It's one of my most favorite buildings in GR because of that.

[GaryP]

Historic Preservation Commission GUIDELINES - Infill Development

[MJLO]

I still contend that the HPC is a political body that can be paid to look the other way depending on who's doing the developing!

not a fan

[gvsusean]

I dont know why a recessed building is such a bad thing.....look at other buldings in cities such as chicago that are absolutely fantastic i.e. the hancock building, they have that cool little waterfall and the chz cake factory . My point is its not whether or not the building is recessed or not...... it depend on what they do with that recession. we will have to wait and see.