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240 Ionia - New Development

GRDadof3

By GRDadof3
in Grand Rapids

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john_denver Hamlet

john_denver

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I agree with you GRDad, it's a valid point.

It does seem the biggest concentration of homeless shelters are in the Heartside, this does make the situation much more visible.

My question is: Are the suburbanites of the Grand Rapids metro area the ones that would fit in best downtown GR? I think not. I don't mean that in a disrespectful or insulting way but people who live in suburban areas live there for a reason, they like it and feel comfortable there. Can one make a transition from suburban to urban and expect the same amenities, culture and ambiance? No.

Grand Rapids is lacking in that "seasoned urbanite" class. The Heartside is really not that bad. I have lived in urban parts of Seattle, San Francisco and Washington DC...in nice apartment buildings (only because I was younger and not in the position to buy) and dealt with the homeless every day. It's just a part of life in the big city.

It comes down to proportions. Right now homeless people may out number people with homes in the Heartside. Get some seasoned urbanites to move downtown who respect and understand the situation and it may improve. I don't see gated communities working downtown, at least not in this current density.

Plus, none of the suburbanites (which are the majority of downtown condo shoppers) looking at investing $250K+ downtown is going to want to be next to a homeless shelter. It's just that simple, and yet very few will acknowledge it, or will pretend like it won't be a big deal. Everyone wants to live in a truly diverse neighborhood, right? Right. Cooley, WMU and Douglas J made the investment in that area because the guys and gals who made that decision will most likely never step foot in that area, so it's a safe bet for them. "It's a campus, for young people. They won't mind the bums". Yet Tall House, Cherry Street Landing, Area 4/5, all struggle to get investors, tenants or residents. Why is that?

I wish them lot's o luck.

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john_denver Hamlet

john_denver

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But looking at it from a strictly demographic view, they are the ones that can most easily afford the price points offered in this latest wave of condos. Unfortunately, the largest concentration of money is in the suburbs, so they are the demographic that they need to go after. Sorry if this seems like I am stereotyping.
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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Seems like with all the development on the Michigan Hill, there should be a lot of new high paying jobs coming to Downtown GR. Van Andel Institute II, Devos Children's Hospital, Lemon Holton Cancer Pavilion, Mid-town developments and St Mary's additions are all great for bringing more money downtown, and probably several people that wouldn't mind living downtown. I think that if most of the condo projects that are proposed right now were to get built, they'd get close to full occupancy once all these other developments happen.

I do agree that because this location is closer to many shelters, the target is probably a younger resident. I like the design, much better that the previous one.

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torgo Town

torgo

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I would have to agree with that GRdad. Just because places like VAI and the other health care facilities will be drawing workers, I doubt that a very high percentage of them are interested in being downtown residents too. I would be interested to see of all the downtown workers, what percentage of those people live within a mile of DT. I fear it would be disturbingly low.

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AlexPKeaton Burg

AlexPKeaton

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I like the look of the project. It's much better than the old one. It sounds like they're targeting the lower end of the market, which is good. Young professionals aren't in a position to afford a $300k condo yet. People like me aren't married so have only 1 source of income, haven't climbed the corporate ladder yet to make a large income, and haven't saved for enough years to make a large down payment. I think the sweet spot for these people is $125k to $175k. The article mentioned this development would start at $150k so I think it could be successful. I guess it just depends on what you get for that price. I'd like 1,200 square feet for that, but other projects have typically cost more for less space.

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joeDowntown Metropolis

joeDowntown

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The unfortunate thing is that when they say $150k to start, that usually means bare, bare bones. It would be great if it started in the $125k range so that $150k could get you some extras. In the end, your still paying $150k but you feel like your not getting the white box treatment.

Joe

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quoteme3 Whistle-Stop

quoteme3

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Not to target you sfloria, but the belief that Michigan Hill workers will want to live downtown is overestimated. First of all, many of these people taking positions at Spectrum have kids. Downtown: no thanks. Second of all, the ones who don't have kids, hear and read about the slow housing market and are hesitant to make a commitment to the area. Thirdly, the big projects downtown aren't scheduled to be finished until 2010. Nobody is even being recruited for those positions yet.

As far as suburbanites moving into downtown, if not them, then who? We are not exactly a hotbed destination for the mobile urbanites, and the $200+/sf is more expensive than people already living in the city would like to pay. For one thing, we have that overwhelming perception that we're a bunch of bible thumpers. Secondly, we don't have any kind of comprehensive transit system. Thirdly, people will have to go to the suburbs to get anything they need. I know a lot of people who work in real estate, and you probably wouldn't believe how many people from Chicago and other larger cities do give Grand Rapids a look (because they're always scoping out up and coming cities), but not enough to get some of these projects off the ground.

I'd say put all apartments in Heartside. As things slowly progress, they can always be converted to condos. Ask anyone at The Globe if they'd be interested in switching to ownership in that area right now. Their answer is probably no.

Any mid-rise condo project like this is going to run in the $200 - $250/sf range, so you're pricing out many of the young people in this marketplace.

I'm not trying to be down on the whole idea of condos in that area, but there are some hard realities at work here. Trust me, I would LOVE for someone to prove me wrong.

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