The History of the Triangle

[JeffC]

1940's through the 1990's peaking in the 60's I'd say. Only the recent resurgence in downtowns nationwide has sparked widespread recognition and efforts to save historic structures. The City was supposed to get Century Post Office in exchange for Morson but the Feds changed their mind and decided they would just have both. Morson Street is the old east end of Morgan Street....check out google maps and you see it lines up.

So Morgan Street split the block where the Federal complex is now, and the old high school was on the southern side of Morgan through there? What was on the northern end of that block? Some beautiful old houses, I bet...

[Jones_]

So Morgan Street split the block where the Federal complex is now, and the old high school was on the southern side of Morgan through there? What was on the northern end of that block? Some beautiful old houses, I bet...

The guy you linked to said Morson took up the whole block, but its not clear if that meant the existing Federal size block or not. I attached a 1914 Sanborn map which predates the school. The footprints of the houses give you and idea of the architectural style and the little number in the corner stands for the number of stories. Sanborn_1914_Sheet_16__New_Bern___Bloodworth_.pdf

By the way Jeff, I walked some of the stream behind Raleigh Tennis Club on Falls of Neuse but did not find the remains of the old mill you mentioned. Where abouts is it? I also took a couple pics of the little stone dam at the edge of that cemetery off the old Falls alignment and will upload sometime.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Jones133

[Jones_]

I don't remember if a link was ever found for a picture of the Nathaniel "Crabtree" Jones house across Wake Forest Road from Melting Pot, but I got a good bunch of shots yesterday. Its not in great condition anymore, but should be a local treasure. Isaac's Hunter Tavern is believed to have been a few hundred yards behind here. The Jones house is circa 1810 or so.

[Sluv]

The Jones house is circa 1810 or so.

1795 according to the N & O http://www.newsobserver.com/1414/story/742148.html

Nice pic.

[orulz]

Jones, or anybody else, what other notable houses do you know of in Raleigh from the pre-railroad (pre-1840) era? Very few? Too many to list?

I know the Spring Hill House on the Dorothea Dix campus was built in 1816, but it's been modified / renovated extensively over the years, and I'm not even sure if it's in its original location or has its original foundation.

[Jones_]

1795 according to the N & O http://www.newsobserver.com/1414/story/742148.html

Nice pic.

I was quoting Elizabeth Reid Murray. Joseph Gales recollections puts this home at 1820. The 1795 date is normally attributed to his earlier house that was down off the hill and was destroyed by one of Crabtree Creeks floods. Without a deedbook...I think this one was destroyed in one of several fires at the courthouse...its impossible to know exactly.

[Jones_]

Jones, or anybody else, what other notable houses do you know of in Raleigh from the pre-railroad (pre-1840) era? Very few? Too many to list?

I know the Spring Hill House on the Dorothea Dix campus was built in 1816, but it's been modified / renovated extensively over the years, and I'm not even sure if it's in its original location or has its original foundation.

Spring Hill is on its original site, though the original cottage burned...it was attached as a rear ell and built also around 1795.

I can list some but have guess at a total number based on drives down all the old wagon roads I know of (I do that sometimes). Downtown has 8 I think if we use 1850 as the cutoff.

Mordecai(1785 and 1826), Lane, (1763) Haywood(1800), White (across from Haywood, 1799), Credit Union (1814, was a house after starting life as a bank), other Haywood house on Edenton (1840), white farmhouse on New Bern (1820) and one on the corner of Jones and. East says 1820 on the door). There is another Lane house moved from Cary to Ebenezer Church that is late 1775. Oops, forgot a little farmhouse on MLK and Person that is listed as 1800. I know places like Wake Forest have 5 or 6 and roads such as Purnell and Old Stage have 3 or 4 a piece. In the County you might get up to 100 if you drove down every dirt lane. In downtown Raleigh there are a few more that date to the 1850's, such as Mountford Hall (1858), Lewis Smith (1855 on Blount was on Wilmington) and the Daniels House (South Street, 1854) and the one behind Bean Sprout on looks appears to be 1840-1850. The oldest house in the County is on Colonial Drive in Garner and dates to 1743.

[ChiefJoJo]

What about Elmwood? It dates to 1812 I think.

[Jones_]

What about Elmwood? It dates to 1812 I think.

So much for my memory...you're right jojo, I always forget about it hiding behind Citgo.

[orulz]

The oldest house in the County is on Colonial Drive in Garner and dates to 1743.

I'd guess this is the house you're talking about? If so, looks old, and looks more or less intact, but it's clearly been moved recently: it's sitting on some sort of supports, and it's there in the Google street view and Google aerials, but it's not there on IMAPS aerials which are only a few years older.

I'm having trouble finding where it was moved from on IMAPS

[JeffC]

By the way Jeff, I walked some of the stream behind Raleigh Tennis Club on Falls of Neuse but did not find the remains of the old mill you mentioned. Where abouts is it? I also took a couple pics of the little stone dam at the edge of that cemetery off the old Falls alignment and will upload sometime.

Right next to the Tennis club, there is a large transmission line right of way. You walk down that right of way away from Falls of the Neuse (not that far, IIRC) until you see a path (kids dirt bike sort of path) going to the left into the woods. follow path until you reach the creek. Can't miss it...enormous dam/spillway structure. It is practically in the back yard of some houses in the neighborhood off of Falls Church (Falls Church is the next right turn off of Falls after the Racquet Club and then the old brick condos across from the Catholic Church)

[JeffC]

So much for my memory...you're right jojo, I always forget about it hiding behind Citgo.

Is the Citgo the former front yard of this house?

[askmisterbrown]

The Theophilus Snow house at 6 N. Bloodworth St. dates to about 1840. It originally faced New Bern Ave., and had a large front yard. Elizabeth Love turned it to its present orientation around 1915 when she built her new house on the NE corner of New Bern & Bloodworth. Here is a photo from wakegov:

http://services.wakegov.com/realestate/Pho...;pin=1703898286

[Jones_]

Is the Citgo the former front yard of this house?

Yep. Some books at the Briggs museum show a nice semi-circle drive with beautiful plantings and such.

The Theophilus Snow house at 6 N. Bloodworth St. dates to about 1840. It originally faced New Bern Ave., and had a large front yard. Elizabeth Love turned it to its present orientation around 1915 when she built her new house on the NE corner of New Bern & Bloodworth. Here is a photo from wakegov:

http://services.wakegov.com/realestate/Pho...;pin=1703898286

Ah, I had wondered...the hip roof made me think it was older than the bungalow front porch would indicate....which itself fits with the 1915 date.

I'd guess this is the house you're talking about? If so, looks old, and looks more or less intact, but it's clearly been moved recently: it's sitting on some sort of supports, and it's there in the Google street view and Google aerials, but it's not there on IMAPS aerials which are only a few years older.

I'm having trouble finding where it was moved from on IMAPS

Its actually at 714 or 720 Colonial a bit back from the road. The front faces Old Stage...must have been open fields between the house and the stage road at one time.

See if this link works.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Jones133

[orulz]

Ah. I guess this is it then?

711 Colonial. Imaps lists the construction date as 1909 but that could certainly be wrong.

[Jones_]

^ Yep that's it. IMAPS has all its construction dates wrong if its older than like the 1940's. From a typical historical pattern, the rear portion (left side in the pic) probably was built first. (Spring Hill was that way). As the family became more prosperous and had kids too, the larger two-story portion would have been added. It also could be the ell is the kitchen that was attached later, but it doesn't really look like that is the case. The front facade has huge greek columns that would have been added almost 100 years later.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Jones133

[Jones_]

Mr Brown, you name says ask, so I will,

There are two other homes in Oakwood I suspect might be antebellum but am not sure.

This one on Boundary Street has a low pitched hip roof and 6/6 windows with ionic greek columns.

This house on Jones is also similar though the porch details are a bit newer (east lake? not really that ornate)

[askmisterbrown]

You have a good eye, Jones. The two houses you mention do look antebellum, but they were actually built shortly after the war. As Raleigh was always at least ten years behind architecturally, it makes sense.

318 N. Boundary St., the Ellen Mordecai house, was built around 1874. It is in the North Carolina vernacular style, with Greek Revival details. The Greek Revival was already out of fashion by 1874. Ellen Mordecai was the daughter of Moses Mordecai, the prominent landowner and lawyer. The house originally faced Person St., on the northeast corner of N. Boundary St. It was moved to its current location in 1934 by Carlyle Sykes, who nearly lost control of it going down that steep hill.

530 E. Jones St., the Andrew Syme House, was built around 1875. It is also in the North Carolina vernacular style, but with

[Jones_]

You have a good eye, Jones. The two houses you mention do look antebellum, but they were actually built shortly after the war. As Raleigh was always at least ten years behind architecturally, it makes sense.

318 N. Boundary St., the Ellen Mordecai house, was built around 1874. It is in the North Carolina vernacular style, with Greek Revival details. The Greek Revival was already out of fashion by 1874. Ellen Mordecai was the daughter of Moses Mordecai, the prominent landowner and lawyer. The house originally faced Person St., on the northeast corner of N. Boundary St. It was moved to its current location in 1934 by Carlyle Sykes, who nearly lost control of it going down that steep hill.

be confirmed.

And here it is in the 1914 Sanborn map. It looks like to faced Boundary, but hey...I am surely the pupil here...is that what it looks like to you?

Raleigh_1914__Sheet_67.pdf

[Jones_]

Right next to the Tennis club, there is a large transmission line right of way. You walk down that right of way away from Falls of the Neuse (not that far, IIRC) until you see a path (kids dirt bike sort of path) going to the left into the woods. follow path until you reach the creek. Can't miss it...enormous dam/spillway structure. It is practically in the back yard of some houses in the neighborhood off of Falls Church (Falls Church is the next right turn off of Falls after the Racquet Club and then the old brick condos across from the Catholic Church)

Cool found it . Wow, its a pretty big structure. I forgot my camera or i'd post some pics since its among the few stone dams left in the county. I will research with the little bit I have on hand and see if anything comes up. Some observations:

The trees growing out of the mill pond bed are 75-100 years old, so its been out of operation since at least the 1920's or so. Assuming it operated for a couple of generations it dates to at least the civil war. At the breach, there was evidence of a lower older dam, and the 10 foot high quarried stone dam was added later. There was a fairly large hand dug spillway on the south edge of the structure. I am guessing this is the facility that gave Millbrook Road its name. There should be a well worn pre-automobile road leading to it but I could not find evidence of one. In line with operation ending in the 1920's, the only traces of buildings I found were foundation stones on top of the hill above the dam (wood is long ago rotted away). Other than the sewer line knocking out 20-30 of the stone portion the site is fairly pristine in that modern development has not impacted much beyond the northern low lying areas. A metal detector or archeological trenches would likely turn up interesting stuff. Thanks Jeff.

The little dam across Falls is only about 5 feet high an 10 feet wide with a pond that would have only been about the size of a large driveway. I guess that the pond behind the tennis club would have been 4-5 acres (a raleigh city block).

[askmisterbrown]

You're right, Jones, the Ellen Mordecai house clearly faced N. Boundary St. It must have been a brand new street, as it does not appear on the 1872 Drie bird's-eye view.

By the way, N. Boundary St., often called just Boundary St., was originally "North Boundary" St., with the emphasis on the first word. The old directories spell it out as North Boundary, whereas they abbreviate N. Blount, N. Person, N. Bloodworth, etc. There was a South Boundary St., but of course they were not connected, and both ran east-west.

[JeffC]

Cool found it . Wow, its a pretty big structure. I forgot my camera or i'd post some pics since its among the few stone dams left in the county. I will research with the little bit I have on hand and see if anything comes up. Some observations:

The trees growing out of the mill pond bed are 75-100 years old, so its been out of operation since at least the 1920's or so. Assuming it operated for a couple of generations it dates to at least the civil war. At the breach, there was evidence of a lower older dam, and the 10 foot high quarried stone dam was added later. There was a fairly large hand dug spillway on the south edge of the structure. I am guessing this is the facility that gave Millbrook Road its name. There should be a well worn pre-automobile road leading to it but I could not find evidence of one. In line with operation ending in the 1920's, the only traces of buildings I found were foundation stones on top of the hill above the dam (wood is long ago rotted away). Other than the sewer line knocking out 20-30 of the stone portion the site is fairly pristine in that modern development has not impacted much beyond the northern low lying areas. A metal detector or archeological trenches would likely turn up interesting stuff. Thanks Jeff.

The little dam across Falls is only about 5 feet high an 10 feet wide with a pond that would have only been about the size of a large driveway. I guess that the pond behind the tennis club would have been 4-5 acres (a raleigh city block).

I am fairly sure that this has to be the namesake of the village of Millbrook, because, if you look at Google maps, this site is only maybe 1/3 to 1/2 mile northwest of the original site of the village (which I understand to be where Millbrook meets Old Wake Forest and the railroad tracks). One of the giant tire/service places there is the original site of the Millbrook Masonic Lodge, and the Methodist Church is right on the corner there, with the Baptists half a block away. I'm guessing a road to the mill would have been a left turn off of Old Wake Forest just north of where it crosses Millbrook. Old Wake Forest follows its original alignment for a few hundred yards north of Millbrook, then swings to the left to connect up with Forest Oaks, which deadends into Atlantic Avenue. Where it swings to the left, there is a remaining vestigial stub of Old Wake Forest that now deadends.

[Jones_]

The Theophilus Snow house at 6 N. Bloodworth St. dates to about 1840. It originally faced New Bern Ave., and had a large front yard. Elizabeth Love turned it to its present orientation around 1915 when she built her new house on the NE corner of New Bern & Bloodworth. Here is a photo from wakegov:

http://services.wakegov.com/realestate/Pho...;pin=1703898286

Just thought I'd show a 1914 Sanborn with the notation saying that the house was to be turned to face Bloodworth.

Sanborn_1914_Sheet_16__New_Bern___Bloodworth_.pdf

[JeffC]

The Theophilus Snow house at 6 N. Bloodworth St. dates to about 1840. It originally faced New Bern Ave., and had a large front yard. Elizabeth Love turned it to its present orientation around 1915 when she built her new house on the NE corner of New Bern & Bloodworth. Here is a photo from wakegov:

http://services.wakegov.com/realestate/Pho...;pin=1703898286

so this "new house" built by Elizabeth Love on the NE corner of New Bern & Bloodworth no longer exists, right? Isn't Bloodworth where there is new "vernacularly appropriate" infill houses on each side of Bloodworth at New Bern? Or am I off by a block?

[Jones_]

so this "new house" built by Elizabeth Love on the NE corner of New Bern & Bloodworth no longer exists, right? Isn't Bloodworth where there is new "vernacularly appropriate" infill houses on each side of Bloodworth at New Bern? Or am I off by a block?

I think its this one that the City bought and renovated. On the top picture you can see the turned house behind it. The deeds actually show a Love owning it in 1943...they rarely have the electronic deeds that up to date.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Jones133