The History of the Triangle

[Jones_]

Here's one...Royal Theater...sat inbetween two of Empires Hargett St buildings in the staging area they are currently using. It was one of the black thaters during segregation.

Also a shot of the original Helig-Levine facade with corner entry like Cafe Luna. You can also see that the Prarie Building used to be twice as large as now.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Jones133

[DPK]

In regard to old Union Station, go here:

http://www.waymarking.com/wm/details.aspx?...8e-7aba3a4a5e53

For some great pictures past/present of different rail buildings in Raleigh:

http://www.pwrr.org/nstation/raleigh.html

[JeffC]

That Womens club building looks a little similar to the St. Elizabeths Hospital Building (on the right side of Old Wake Forest heading north past the Krispy Kreme...), albeit with different color brick.

The history on the Womens Club website contains no information on their building. I did however find this snippet from the UNC Library's North Carolina biographies collection in a biography of a woman named E.E. (Elvira Evelina--I kid you not) Moffitt, the daughter of former governor Jonathan Worth:

"As the founder of the Woman's Club of Raleigh, she was made a life member at a subsequent anniversary dinner held in her honor. She wrote a history of the club movement in North Carolina, which was placed in the cornerstone of the Woman's Club's new building, erected in 1915."

So we know this building was put up in 1915. I'm guessing they moved out to the site off Glenwood in the 1960s, when that office park was constructed...

Edited November 20, 2007 by JeffC

[JeffC]

Well, the answer is in that postcard book referenced above...parts of it are in Google books, including this postcard...

"The building shown here was completed on Hillsborough Street in about 1915. It was sold in 1966 and taken down to make room for a high-rise Holiday Inn."

[Jones_]

Well, the answer is in that postcard book referenced above...parts of it are in Google books, including this postcard...

"The building shown here was completed on Hillsborough Street in about 1915. It was sold in 1966 and taken down to make room for a high-rise Holiday Inn."

^Nice find. Holiday Inn=Clarion I assume. The spanish mission style had me thinking teens or twenties. I will try to find the time to post the Sanborn map. Prior to 1915 there should have been a large mansion of some sort here too, Drie or Sanborn should show that too.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Jones133

[Jones_]

^ok got some maps. First 1903 Sanborn map showing original houses on lot. Sanborn_1903_Sheet_16__Hillsborough_Harrington_.pdf

Next Drie map of some of the same houses from 1872. Hillsborough_Dawson_1872.pdf

Last, 1949 Sanborn map shoing Womens club building. (and second Empire and many others)Sanborn_1949_Sheet_12__Hillsborough_Harrington_.pdf

[JeffC]

^ok got some maps. First 1903 Sanborn map showing original houses on lot. Sanborn_1903_Sheet_16__Hillsborough_Harrington_.pdf

Next Drie map of some of the same houses from 1872. Hillsborough_Dawson_1872.pdf

Last, 1949 Sanborn map shoing Womens club building. (and second Empire and many others)Sanborn_1949_Sheet_12__Hillsborough_Harrington_.pdf

Thanks. Boy, the block bounded by Dawson, Harrington, Edenton and Hillsborough has not aged well. I assume the end of the block on Dawson that is now a barren wasteland of a parking lot was later a service station, given the obvious groundwater extraction and treatment that has been going on there for years. At the other end of the block beyond the hotel before 2nd Empire you have some really ugly commercial storefronts (although who knows what lurks beneath the ugly aluminum siding).

[ncwebguy]

I don't think I notice/care about the Dillon buildings above the first floor. I like the plate glass and doors, and am glad they haven't "accidently" broken after Dillon moved.

The Shaw building is still standing on their campus. The Lincoln Theater was another movie house during segregation, named after the president who abolished slavery.

In the "Insurance Building" (currently Wake County office building) postcard, you can see a little of a big "Hotel Sir Walter" sign peeking out on the east edge of the Sir Walter Hotel's roof. Unfortunately that sign could never exist today, given sign ordinances, etc. But it probably looked pretty cool at night back then.

Prarieview's south facing windows were bricked in, maybe when the parking deck was built. To the north there was the building with New York deli (before the fire), where the "family life center" is now.

It is sad that the round Holiday Inn/Clarion replaced the Women's Club building. There must have been more suitable places for it in the CBD then.... As bad as the block is now, with the closed "back entrance ramp" to the Clarion and gravel lot on Dawson, it was worse not that long ago. Before Second Empire restored the Dodd-Hinsdale house, it was a mess, surrounded by uninviting fencing. The Edenton side of the block is a whole lot of nothing too, other than service entrances to the hotel and empty storefronts, and Second Empire's parking lot.

[JeffC]

As bad as the block is now, with the closed "back entrance ramp" to the Clarion and gravel lot on Dawson, it was worse not that long ago. Before Second Empire restored the Dodd-Hinsdale house, it was a mess, surrounded by uninviting fencing. The Edenton side of the block is a whole lot of nothing too, other than service entrances to the hotel and empty storefronts, and Second Empire's parking lot.

Yeah, I know, but to have a weedy, gravel parking lot less than two blocks from the State Capital of the 10th largest state in the Union is embarrassing, IMO, and reflects poorly on the city for visitors who come and stay at that hotel...

Richmond has the Jefferson, we have this piece of crap circa 1960s round hotel sitting next to an environmental remediation site to serve out of town visitors to downtown. Is this Raleigh or Trenton?

[RaleighRob]

Yeah, I know, but to have a weedy, gravel parking lot less than two blocks from the State Capital of the 10th largest state in the Union is embarrassing, IMO, and reflects poorly on the city for visitors who come and stay at that hotel...

Richmond has the Jefferson, we have this piece of crap circa 1960s round hotel sitting next to an environmental remediation site to serve out of town visitors to downtown. Is this Raleigh or Trenton?

Hey now...I'll agree the lot is bad, but don't harp on the hotel. There are some folks here in Raleigh who still appreciate the 50s/60s modernist architecture. Sure the Clarion could probably use a good sprucing up, but the overall design is unique and eye-catching even today.

[DPK]

I actually like the Clarion. I also use it as a navigation point when I get lost downtown, lol. The interiors really aren't that bad and I think they recently upgraded some things. That empty lot next to them has always bothered me though. What's the story on it?

[ChiefJoJo]

In regard to old Union Station, go here:

http://www.waymarking.com/wm/details.aspx?...8e-7aba3a4a5e53

For some great pictures past/present of different rail buildings in Raleigh:

http://www.pwrr.org/nstation/raleigh.html

So this is the old Union Station? Isn't that on the NW corner of Martin & Dawson next to the fire station? Wow, I had no idea.

[Jones_]

^Yep, Union Train Station. Union bus station was where the City parking deck is now. My pics are only in books but Union Train Station had a very tall cupola on top with intricate details...maybe a clock too but not sure on that. The trains came in the back....looking up the Sanborn now...

Sanborn_1903_Sheet_18__Martin_Harrington_.pdf

Edited November 21, 2007 by Jones133

[ncwebguy]

I think the Clarion would make more sense if it was in the mcdowell/salisbury or wilmington/blount corridors instead of "out there" on Hillsborough. A clone of the Sir Walter that went to the sidewalk along Hillsborough/Dawson/part of Edenton, with a passenger drop off on Hillsborough, a Hillsborough/Dawson corner Chick Fil A, other street level stores/offices, and second floor meeting rooms/ballroom with a view down Hillsborough to the Capitol and F Street would be something.

What would it cost to remediate the corner site? The .31 acre site is owned by an LLC of .... Empire Properties, bought in 2001 for $405,500. The new valuation is now $675,200. With Campbell Law and the Raleigh going up nearby, the value will only go up in the future.

We stayed there the night of my wedding, and the rooms were nice enough, but nothing fancy. Our view went NE toward the state government complex -- not bad but not great.

If the country stayed more rail-based, imagine how the area around there would have developed. Nash Square would still be across the street. The buildings knocked down for parking lots could still be standing, or replaced by taller buildings, etc.

[DPK]

My pics are only in books but Union Train Station had a very tall cupola on top with intricate details...maybe a clock too but not sure on that.

Looks like there's a clock, but it's hard to make out.

[DPK]

What would it cost to remediate the corner site?

What used to be on the site that it now requires remediation? Whatever building was there looks to have been razed in 1991/92.

09-03-1991 1 BLDG RAZED FOR 1992-CSB 8-30-91

[DPK]

I took Jones' image and put it side-to-side with a scaled map from today:

[Jones_]

^very cool. The footprint is exactly the same. I wonder what life was like in Harrington St in 1903 with trains chugging through and streets mostly unpaved...seedy, dirty...also where did you get the digital of 1910 Union Station?

[ChiefJoJo]

I took Jones' image and put it side-to-side with a scaled map from today:

I walked by there on my way home and some of the tracks (adjacent to West St that connected Southern Railway with Union Station) are still there... you can see the narrow corridor in the upper left just north of Martin St. I had noticed the tracks before, but didn't realize they actually were once used for passenger rail service. The sad thing is I could find no plaque for Union Station posted anywhere on either bldg frontage. Am I missing something, or should our old train depot dating from 1892 not at least have a "Raleigh Historic Property" designation?

[JeffC]

What used to be on the site that it now requires remediation? Whatever building was there looks to have been razed in 1991/92.

I don't know, but in years past, a groundwater extraction system sat right next to Dawson Street on that side of the lot...I don't know whether it is still there or not. Usually, that kind of system is associated with old leaking underground storage tanks that are seeping contaminants into the local groundwater. DENR makes you operate the thing for some number of years to clean up the groundwater, and then "closes" activities at the site. I have no idea whether all remediation activities are done at that site.

[ChiefJoJo]

Jeff/Jones, you guys know the history of this bldg... it's at the corner of Person & Cabarrus near Lincoln Theater and directly across from Palladium Plaza... I believe it's an old Mason's bldg--was there a black Mason group (it's in the historically black part of town... Lincoln, Pope House, etc)?

[WanderingRaleighite]

ChiefJoJo-- You're right, that does refer to a black masonic group. It is somewhat difficult to get history from secret societies, but I should be able to get a founding date for you.

As far as Union Station goes, I remember one source complaining about how slow the arrival to Raleigh was, since the trains had to back into the station across surface streets. I will have to check my notes and books for the citation, but this is off the top of my head.

P.S. (edit) I just got off the phone with Dan Becker at Raleigh Historic Properties. Union Station probably will not qualify for RHP designation due to the significant altering of the structure. The removal of the tower shown in the earlier photo is just part of it. That said, it would be nice if some private group placed a plaque for it (NCRR).

Speaking of plaques and historical markers, is there anyone here who can answer this? There is a series of historical markers carved into cement at several intersections along New Bern Ave. They stretch from Person St. to Tarboro Rd. None of the preservation/history groups that I have spoken with, ie. RHP or CAP, have any idea who set these up. I will include a photo when I get to my home machine. Thanks for any help.

Edited November 30, 2007 by WanderingRaleighite

[Jones_]

^^those markers refer to history in that area...Morson High School, a freedmans community north of New Bern (forgot the nam)...they are interesting...but strangely I was threatened based on my race that day and left before I finished reading them all....

The black Masonic lodge was also built in 1907, Same as the white one, Alexander Building. I do not know much about the founding but the lodge existed elswhere before 1907 from what I have read in Elizabeth Reed Murray.

[ChiefJoJo]

^^those markers refer to history in that area...Morson High School, a freedmans community north of New Bern (forgot the nam)...they are interesting...but strangely I was threatened based on my race that day and left before I finished reading them all....

The black Masonic lodge was also built in 1907, Same as the white one, Alexander Building. I do not know much about the founding but the lodge existed elswhere before 1907 from what I have read in Elizabeth Reed Murray.

Hmm, that's what I thought about the black Mason Lodge, although it's in rough shape at the moment. This one sure could use an infusion of capital... if only there was a company that specialized in that sort of thing...

[ncwebguy]

I thought I posted about this somewhere, but now I can't find it...

The lodge in that picture on Blount Street is (was?) the Raleigh chapter of the predominantly African-American Prince Hall Freemasons, seperate from the "other" masons who were downtown, then near the Glenwood/Wade intersection, and now further down Glenwood near Glen Eden. There is a barber/beauty shop in the street level of the building on the East Cabarrus side of the building. The bars on the doors and windows scream "you're not safe here", even though it is right across the strete from Palladium Plaza.

It is still owned by the Masons and is only valued at $224,268. The building's value is $937,337, but condition and historical credits reduces that almost 70%. It looks the same as the county's picture taken in 1996.

The New Bern markers are on both sides of the street. Driving by, you would never know they are there. With the trash and overgrowth (which I've cleaned several times during neighborhood cleanups) you could walk right over them without noticing. From memory, there is a plaque near the Federal Building about the old high school and tablets at

- New Bern/Bloodworth (NW by the dry cleaner?)

- SE New Bern/East (mentions former granite quarry nearby to the south where the material for the Capitol and some tombstones in City Cemetary came from)

- NW New Bern/Swain (mentions Hungry Neck area from Swain/Edenton to St. Augs)

- SE (possibly SW) New Bern/Tarboro

There might be others in between, but it has been a while.

One of these days, I want to do a google maps markup of their locations and their text.