The History of the Triangle

[DPK]

National Art Interiors is moving from their historic location at Hillsborough & Glenwood. They have a sign saying the are relocating this spring. Wonder who will take that space? The building has been there quite a long time. I recall hearing that the concrete foundation was shared with the previous Hillsborough St bridge, built near the turn of the century.

Please tell me that they are relocating because they need more space and not because someone bought their building and wants to tear it down.

For reference:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...935546910731457

[phoenixnc]

I am wondering about a certain part of town near the intersection of Ray and Howard roads in North Raleigh. I live in the Stonehenge neighborhood near here, but there seems to be a large amount of older homes near there. There are also remnants of a larger farm on Howard Road. Further north on Ray Road, there is a street called Broad Street, which seems like an unusual name for a street given its residential and non-city feel. Off of that is South Dawson Street. South of Howard Road there is another farm on Ray Road and then you reach Henry Drive, Douglas Drive, and Lipkin Hollow. These seem to be largely black neighborhoods, so I am wondering if there is a farming heritage, but some of the houses (including the one at Ray and Howard Roads (howard dead ends into the lot) seem upwards of 50 years. If anything knows anything about this area, it would be nice to know; i can't really find any online.

Edited February 25, 2008 by phoenixnc

[Jones_]

I am pulling from limited resources but some background.....until the 1980's Lynn Road from Ray to Sandy Forks was called Jeffreys School Road (the little Jeffreys GROVE School Road off Creedmoor is different of course). Also back in the civil war days Leesville Road was the Lower Raleigh Road is this area. Likely in April 1865 Union forces chased Confederates up this road towards Durham Station (in addition to the bigger battle in Morrisville). With these tidbits, the 1871 Bevers map shows only very limited activity in the triangle between what are now Strickland, Lead Mine and Leesville Roads. The Lead Mine itself also had a saw mill (and hence the road name) north of Lynn. Hare Snipe Creek had a mill pond called (what looks like, its hard to read) Maynard Mill just north or Leesville Road. Only a dot specified as the A Pages house is close to a line that must be Creedmoor Road. The A M Beck Plantation is closer to the modern Leesville/Strickland intesection but is north of Strickland. As this part of the county looks pretty desolate in 1871 it would make an ideal place for freed slaves to settle. Lots of time surnames in 1950's houses out in the county are the same as as ones from just after the civil war. A look on the wake county property site might be able to link these names to one dot on the map.

A quick look and Lipkin and Douglas both have a parcel owned by a Lipkin. Both Streets have ROW extending beyond the drivable portion, and Valview, connecting Henry and Douglas, has alot of empty lots on it. The whole area looks to be part of a plat referred to as Sandy Land Village. I checked one deed history (incomplete as they are online) and the first name that came up (without a date though) was a Chavis(Edward Chavis). Chavis of course being a name of high regard in Raleigh's african american history....likely coincidence but who knows. Also it looks like both Wilderness and Old Hundred roads preceded modern development looking at the google overhead and terminated in this area near Ray Road. I don't have good cemetery info at hand but that would also provide good info and this corner of North Raleigh, suprisingly had many of its cemeteries survive development.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Jones133

[staffer]

the 1871 Bevers map shows only very limited activity in the triangle between what are now Strickland, Lead Mine and Leesville Roads. The Lead Mine itself also had a saw mill (and hence the road name) north of Lynn. Hare Snipe Creek had a mill pond called (what looks like, its hard to read) Maynard Mill just north or Leesville Road. Only a dot specified as the A Pages house is close to a line that must be Creedmoor Road. The A M Beck Plantation is closer to the modern Leesville/Strickland intesection but is north of Strickland. As this part of the county looks pretty desolate in 1871 it would make an ideal place for freed slaves to settle. Lots of time surnames in 1950's houses out in the county are the same as as ones from just after the civil war. A look on the wake county property site might be able to link these names to one dot on the map.

A quick look and Lipkin and Douglas both have a parcel owned by a Lipkin. Both Streets have ROW extending beyond the drivable portion, and Valview, connecting Henry and Douglas, has alot of empty lots on it. The whole area looks to be part of a plat referred to as Sandy Land Village. I checked one deed history (incomplete as they are online) and the first name that came up (without a date though) was a Chavis(Edward Chavis). Chavis of course being a name of high regard in Raleigh's african american history....likely coincidence but who knows. Also it looks like both Wilderness and Old Hundred roads preceded modern development looking at the google overhead and terminated in this area near Ray Road. I don't have good cemetery info at hand but that would also provide good info and this corner of North Raleigh, suprisingly had many of its cemeteries survive development.

The area around Jeffreys Grove School was historically populated by freed slaves. The school itself was a black school prior to integration (it was rebuilt crica 2000). The land for the school was donated by black families in the area. I believe there were also black settlements on Ray Rd as well. There was an old sheep farm that ran through where Wilderness Road meets Village Grove Road, it was developed in the early 1980s. Wilderness itself did not exist pre 1983 (I moved to that area in 1984 and learned a lot from neighbors at the time)

[ChiefJoJo]

Interesting photos from the N&O blogs... remenants of an old mill site on House Creek near I-440:

Support beam of the mill--you can see it notched out with a temporary sewer line running over top:

[staffer]

Interesting photos from the N&O blogs... remenants of an old mill site on House Creek near I-440:

that presumably is Edwards Mill, although the Bevers 1871 map has a different name for a millpond where House Creek and Crabtree Creek intersect behind the mall.

[phoenixnc]

Thanks for looking that up... it was really interesting

[Jones_]

I had always assumed Edwards Mill site has been destroyed...with both Crabtree and House being relocated behind the mall. Edwards Mill was on Crabtree anyway. The mill you see on Bevers looks like it says Tuckers Mill and the pond has the "Lower Raleigh Road" passing over it meaning Lead Mine/Blue Ridge crossed over it, so this looks like it was actually on Crabtree Creek too. House Creek parallels 440 for a mile or so...I can't place this site in my head(never walked House Creek either) but with the logs still intact its probably newer than anything seen on Bevers. Its not uncommon for mills to still be being built up through the great depression...there is one off Oxford Drive for instance that had a small pond and brick foundation in the middle of a small tributary to Crabtree Creek. Staffer or Jojo,...is there any indication of exactly where on House Creek this is?

[ChiefJoJo]

The N&O has a good story on the history of the Oberlin community just northeast of Cameron Village near Wade Ave. It was settled by freed slaves, many of whom had never owned land, and began to build a new community there. The area was also the site of The Latta House, founded by Morgan Latta, who founded a school to educate children in the black community in the late 1800s. The house, unfortunately, burned in a fire in Jan 2007. The area is being engulfed by new development, including Oberlin Court, and other new single family homes.

Here's a good photo gallery of the area.

[Eastwestrob]

I am pulling from limited resources but some background.....until the 1980's Lynn Road from Ray to Sandy Forks was called Jeffreys School Road (the little Jeffreys GROVE School Road off Creedmoor is different of course).

This is sort of off-topic.This brings back some limited memories for me as I actually started 4th grade at Lynn Rd Elementary during its initial opening year. The previous 1/2 year was at Jeffreys Grove Elementary while Lynn Rd Elementary was being constructed, and starting grade school at Fred A Smith Elementary just off 401 South...We were also some of the first residents in Lynndale Estates as that neighborhood was being constructed. I am now 42 years old and wonder ...are there any forumers on this site that may have attended these schools while I did?

[ChiefJoJo]

A neat story for you history buffs. NC has recovered its original, handwritten copy of the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution from 1789 that was stolen during Sherman's occupation of Raleigh in 1865.

[uncletupelo]

There was an old homestead at the site behind the old Oak City Diner. It was probably there until the mid to late 80's. Wake Forest Road was full of old estates when I grew up in the 70's. Anyone remember Scream in the Dark ghost house at the corner of Millbrook and Falls of the Neuse? There was a sign at the corner of Six Forks and Shelly Road back in the early 70's that read Raleigh 12 miles. I could go on and on. I enjoy this site.

[Jones_]

There was an old homestead at the site behind the old Oak City Diner. It was probably there until the mid to late 80's. Wake Forest Road was full of old estates when I grew up in the 70's. Anyone remember Scream in the Dark ghost house at the corner of Millbrook and Falls of the Neuse? There was a sign at the corner of Six Forks and Shelly Road back in the early 70's that read Raleigh 12 miles. I could go on and on. I enjoy this site.

Any pics you have please post or msg me and I'd like to look at. Behind Oak City diner I have scouted out the old driveway and some tree stumps that are 100-150 years old anyway. Can you describe the house? I think it was possibly owned by a Mordecai descendant as Noble was once Whitaker Mill and Mike Legeros has the old FD history posted and there is an instance of a Mordecai house at Wake Forest and Whitaker Mill burning just outside the city limits in the 1950's I think...which this area was in the 50's.

[uncletupelo]

I am working on memory only. But there was an old homestead there before those apartments were built. There is an interesting old home between St Albans and Dresser court. The R L Dresser home was located at Dresser court. The Coley estate is still standing on many acres between Glen Eden and Glenwood Ave. It is now the Williams Realty office. It is absolutely beautiful and an remains an old Raleigh gem.

[Jones_]

I am working on memory only. But there was an old homestead there before those apartments were built. There is an interesting old home between St Albans and Dresser court. The R L Dresser home was located at Dresser court. The Coley estate is still standing on many acres between Glen Eden and Glenwood Ave. It is now the Williams Realty office. It is absolutely beautiful and an remains an old Raleigh gem.

Is this the Williams House in the second pic?

Jeff C and I talked about at least one oldish home on St Albans not sure if its the place you mention. St Albans is part of the original track of what is now Louisburg Road which I may have talked about earlier in the thread.

[uncletupelo]

That is the old servants quarters.

[cophead567]

Hello all! I'm slowly learning my downtown Raleigh history, lots of good info in this thread. I finally got around to walking up to one of my favorite buildings downtown. It is the brick building to the right of the Days Inn when coming into downtown south on Capital/Dawson. Does anyone know of any history or future plans for this area or this building? Is this the proposed site for the future govt. center train station? Thanks in advance.

[Raleighmark]

There was an old homestead at the site behind the old Oak City Diner. It was probably there until the mid to late 80's. Wake Forest Road was full of old estates when I grew up in the 70's. Anyone remember Scream in the Dark ghost house at the corner of Millbrook and Falls of the Neuse? There was a sign at the corner of Six Forks and Shelly Road back in the early 70's that read Raleigh 12 miles. I could go on and on. I enjoy this site.

I vaguely remember the homestead behind the Oak City Dinner. What did the dinner used to be called?

I remember one estate on Old Wake Forest R. where the North Raleigh Hilton is now. My friends and I used to follow Big Branch down from Eastgate subdivision to a little path that led up to the back of it. They still had a big hog and a mule that we would try to ride.

I definitely remember Scream in the Dark!

[Jones_]

Hello all! I'm slowly learning my downtown Raleigh history, lots of good info in this thread. I finally got around to walking up to one of my favorite buildings downtown. It is the brick building to the right of the Days Inn when coming into downtown south on Capital/Dawson. Does anyone know of any history or future plans for this area or this building? Is this the proposed site for the future govt. center train station? Thanks in advance.

This was originally the Melrose Knitting Company mill. I do not know the exact date of construction but the original portion shows up in a 1903 Sanborn Map. (the eastern facade is clearly newer in your picture)

Here is the map. Sanborn_1903_Sheet_23__Hillsborough_Saunders_.pdf

I read some of the EIS that TTA originally submitted and this is not in the footprint for the station. In fact TTA had to prove the station would not harm the building from what I read. Its currently owned by a guy from Afghanistan (I attended a function there once, great time!). I also know the guy who built and installed all those windows and according to him the owner is sitting on it waiting to cash in on its location next to the station site. All hearsay, but thats all I know.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Jones133

[Gard]

I vaguely remember the homestead behind the Oak City Dinner. What did the dinner used to be called?

I remember one estate on Old Wake Forest R. where the North Raleigh Hilton is now. My friends and I used to follow Big Branch down from Eastgate subdivision to a little path that led up to the back of it. They still had a big hog and a mule that we would try to ride.

I definitely remember Scream in the Dark!

North Raleigh Hilton is on Wake Forest Rd, not Old Wake Forest Rd.

On a side note and not to derail the thread, I really wish they would rename the segments of Old Wake Forest Rd. to make things less confusing and less disjointed.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Gard

[Raleighmark]

I vaguely remember the homestead behind the Oak City Dinner. What did the dinner used to be called?

Thought of the answer to my own question. It was the Ham and Egger.

[RaleighRob]

I read some of the EIS that TTA originally submitted and this is not in the footprint for the station. In fact TTA had to prove the station would not harm the building from what I read. Its currently owned by a guy from Afghanistan (I attended a function there once, great time!). I also know the guy who built and installed all those windows and according to him the owner is sitting on it waiting to cash in on its location next to the station site. All hearsay, but thats all I know.

I was gonna say the windows look certainly new....

I heard that back in the day the folks who started Capital Fitness were looking at that building originally. But they changed their mind and put in on North Street to be closer to the Glenwood South strip.

It'd be cool if they were done up like loft apartments.

[askmisterbrown]

I don't believe the house up on the hill behind the Ham & Egger was very old. It was probably built in the 1940s or early 1950s. It was nice, though, with a winding driveway, old oaks, and boxwoods.

[Francesca]

Here's one...Royal Theater...sat inbetween two of Empires Hargett St buildings in the staging area they are currently using. It was one of the black thaters during segregation.

Also a shot of the original Helig-Levine facade with corner entry like Cafe Luna. You can also see that the Prarie Building used to be twice as large as now.

Hi Jones -

Could you share where you came across these photos - very interesting!

[Jones_]

I think Royal theater came from the City Museum website.....Helig-Levine I think came from the UNC library but I really don't remember for sure. I would throw them all up on a website of my own but I am not familiar with copyright laws.