New Statues downtown...?

[vicupstate]

The 'offending' statute is INSIDE the Peace Center. He is facing away from the street.  Unless you are inside the building, I would imagine you have to really make a point of being in the right spot to see his man parts.  

Before Greenville's Downtown took the spotlight from them, the most recognized and oft mentioned thing about Greenville was that it was the home of BJU. It was never mentioned in a good light either. I too have met many people from there that are very nice and productive members of our community. For many years they had a stance against interracial marriage/dating. This was a big source of the enmity within the community against them. I don't think it is unfair to say they advocate some pretty fundamentalist ideas within the world of religious thought(women shouldn't wear pants, for instance). That is their right and prerogative. I don't agree with them on this particular issue and don't support the funding being removed. If art of a religious nature were placed in the park, I'm sure they would object to it being removed because of some atheist group that was offended. I would support them in being opposed in that situation.     

[goodbye]

37 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

The 'offending' statute is INSIDE the Peace Center. He is facing away from the street.  Unless you are inside the building, I would imagine you have to really make a point of being in the right spot to see his man parts.  

Before Greenville's Downtown took the spotlight from them, the most recognized and oft mentioned thing about Greenville was that it was the home of BJU. It was never mentioned in a good light either. I too have met many people from there that are very nice and productive members of our community. For many years they had a stance against interracial marriage/dating. This was a big source of the enmity within the community against them. I don't think it is unfair to say they advocate some pretty fundamentalist ideas within the world of religious thought(women shouldn't wear pants, for instance). That is their right and prerogative. I don't agree with them on this particular issue and don't support the funding being removed. If art of a religious nature were placed in the park, I'm sure they would object to it being removed because of some atheist group that was offended. I would support them in being opposed in that situation.     

You'll have to find something else to criticize because they DO allow women to wear pants.  The assumption that anyone opposed to public displays of nudity MUST be connected in some way with BJU is inaccurate.  This is South Carolina, where laws regarding "indecent exposure" exist and obviously are supported by a significant portion of the population.  I tend to believe many people are overly sensitive and easily offended by controversial forms of art, but I also understand that some people do have legitimate reason(s) to avoid controversial art.  I applaud the city for embracing these challenges and providing a platform for a variety of perspectives.

[Exile]

1 hour ago, vicupstate said:

Before Greenville's Downtown took the spotlight from them, the most recognized and oft mentioned thing about Greenville was that it was the home of BJU.

I grew up here in the 60's-80's, and lived in Greenville a total of 27 years. In my memory, there were only a couple of times, both in the 80's, I think, when BJU got big-time national press: the tax-exemption court case they were involved in, and an interracial dating piece that had a fairly short-lived currency. I can't speak to earlier periods, but, while we were all aware of BJU's presence, I have very little memory of actual interactions with them or of the assertion of a BJU mindset upon the community. There were council members who seemed to come from the BJU crowd, but that's not unique to Greenville. You can find that kind of thing in lots of places. About the only time I'd see an identifiably BJU crowd was on Sunday morning the line of people walking from campus to Morningside Baptist Church, which used to be behind N. Hills Shopping Center on E. North St.

What Greenville was known for was manufacturing, and not just textiles: Celanese, GE, and, of course, Michelin, who first located here in the mid-70's and not too much later brought their NA HQ here. The Textile Expo was truly international and drew several thousand attendees, not a few from overseas. I remember a drunk German rep having a head-on collision with a local woman in front of my house back in, say, '76. Nobody got hurt, thankfully, but both cars were totaled. One of our neighbors was Swiss. I knew some Russian expats. Various east Asians, Indians, etc.

All the way back into the 70's, it was common to, say, get on an elevator and find yourself unable to understand the conversations you overheard: French and German usually, but not only. I remember the snickers from the Atlanta students when our marketing professor at Clemson called Greenville "cosmopolitan". I could understand their reaction; but he wasn't wrong: they just didn't know that a city a fraction the size of ATL could in fact be something of a melting pot.

One more thing: even the near misses: e.g., the big Phillips Morris plant on the west side of I-95 as you drive into Richmond nearly went on a site near Donaldson. That competition made the news, and not just locally. That was also roughly mid-70's.

I'm sure I'm forgetting more than I'm remembering.

So, anyway, all to say that while it is true to say that BJU was known, in my experience it was never definitive for Greenville.

[vicupstate]

Quote

You'll have to find something else to criticize because they DO allow women to wear pants. 

That must have been something that changes after the Jones Presidencies ended, because it was the case in recent history. 

Quote

So, anyway, all to say that while it is true to say that BJU was known, in my experience it was never definitive for Greenville.

Perhaps not to those IN Greenville, but elsewhere in the state it was.   

[gman430]

They should put a statue of gman430 downtown.  

Edited May 15, 2021 by gman430

[GVLover]

1 hour ago, gman430 said:

They should put a statue of gman430 downtown.  

Would a statue of a tower crane suffice? 

[Exile]

1 hour ago, vicupstate said:

Perhaps not to those IN Greenville, but elsewhere in the state it was.   

Well, it didn't seem to have any effect on investment. I wonder if there might have been intra-state rivalry thing, invoking BJU as a knock on Greenville or the "Upcountry," as we called it. All I know is that I honestly can't remember anyone ever bringing up BJU when they found out I was from Greenville.

[gman430]

1 hour ago, GVLover said:

Would a statue of a tower crane suffice? 

Yes.  That and a drone with a low cost airline attached. 

[distortedlogic]

1 hour ago, Exile said:

Well, it didn't seem to have any effect on investment. I wonder if there might have been intra-state rivalry thing, invoking BJU as a knock on Greenville or the "Upcountry," as we called it. All I know is that I honestly can't remember anyone ever bringing up BJU when they found out I was from Greenville.

I have NEVER heard anyone else in the state mention Bob Jones to me; EVER. I have family all over the state and all over neighboring states and I have never heard a comment about Bob Jones; good or bad. I never heard anything about it when I lived out West. Nobody knows about it or really cares. I think the only people who think about Bob Jones are the people affiliated with it, and Greenville people who don't like it. Greenville is it's own place and BJU happens to be small private school in it. It has no more bearing on Greenville than any other small private school has on any other similar sized city. I think some people just like to complain. 

[gman430]

15 minutes ago, distortedlogic said:

I have NEVER heard anyone else in the state mention Bob Jones to me; EVER. I have family all over the state and all over neighboring states and I have never heard a comment about Bob Jones; good or bad. I never heard anything about it when I lived out West. Nobody knows about it or really cares. I think the only people who think about Bob Jones are the people affiliated with it, and Greenville people who don't like it. Greenville is it's own place and BJU happens to be small private school in it. It has no more bearing on Greenville than any other small private school has on any other similar sized city. I think some people just like to complain. 

Happy Gilmore: “Bob Jones is the devil.”  

[vicupstate]

I'm sure few people from Texas or CA or Germany ever heard of BJU or if they did, do not know the controversy around it.  I learned of it from Greenvillians I went to college with. That was about the same time it made national news for the first time because of its interracial policies and lack of non-white students.  Obviously this was big news statewide and within the state it gained a reputation whereas before it was not widely known or thought of.  It didn't dissipate quickly either.  The anti-gay ordinance in the mid-90's further cemented Greenville in a certain non tolerant light.   The BJU controversy reignited itself in 2000 during the GOP Presidential  primary.  That was followed years later by the MLK holiday controversy (last county to enact the holiday).   These events taken as a whole gave Greenville a reputation during that time as a far Right, fundamentalist, WASP oriented city.  Obviously our reputation since then has been redeemed by numerous actions since such as enacting the MLK holiday, repealing the Anti-Gay ordinance,  more open-minded leadership at BJU and a newly acquired reputation as a desirable place to live.  This controversy reminds us that that previous mindset is still evoked from a vocal minority.  I suggest those that disagree should make their voices heard as well.       

[victory]

Was in Greenville yesterday visiting my daughter, and we drove downtown to walk around Main St. Firstly, let me say I continue to be more and more impressed with the density..not only the street level pedestrian activity, but the density of commercial and residential development (and its quality). Kudos to Greenville for creating an incredible city! I will say, the controversy about the statues did pop on on my news feed a few days ago, so, needless to say, we had to go look at them. I don't get the fuss. I have lived in SC all my life, so I am well aware the upstate is much more conservative politically and religiously than Columbia and Chas, however, Greenville has really transformed itself, and the lingering street preachers and artwork controversies are really starting to seem out of place. Greenville is sleek, clean, friendly, and on the move, and I can't wait to see what the next few  years will bring for its downtown!

[Exile]

On 5/16/2021 at 7:02 AM, vicupstate said:

I'm sure few people from Texas or CA or Germany ever heard of BJU or if they did, do not know the controversy around it.  I learned of it from Greenvillians I went to college with. That was about the same time it made national news for the first time because of its interracial policies and lack of non-white students.  Obviously this was big news statewide and within the state it gained a reputation whereas before it was not widely known or thought of.  It didn't dissipate quickly either.  The anti-gay ordinance in the mid-90's further cemented Greenville in a certain non tolerant light.   The BJU controversy reignited itself in 2000 during the GOP Presidential  primary.  That was followed years later by the MLK holiday controversy (last county to enact the holiday).   These events taken as a whole gave Greenville a reputation during that time as a far Right, fundamentalist, WASP oriented city.  Obviously our reputation since then has been redeemed by numerous actions since such as enacting the MLK holiday, repealing the Anti-Gay ordinance,  more open-minded leadership at BJU and a newly acquired reputation as a desirable place to live.  This controversy reminds us that that previous mindset is still evoked from a vocal minority.  I suggest those that disagree should make their voices heard as well.       

My last comment for the sake of clarity:

I was not referring to the internationals or other faraway folks when I said I'd never heard anyone invoke BJU. I was referring to people, overwhelmingly from the Carolinas and NE GA, none of whom have ever brought it up.

As for what's happened related to BJU since downtown turned around, I wasn't addressing that at all. You made the claim that before the turnaround, Greenville was primarily known as the home of BJU. I was addressing that claim only. I haven't lived in Greenville since the turnaround, so I have no opinion on it.

[gman430]

Willis Meadows is dumber than the squirrels that get run over by cars: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2021/05/18/wings-of-the-city-debate-questions-greenville-events-money/5097408001/

[hauntedheadnc]

7 hours ago, gman430 said:

Willis Meadows is dumber than the squirrels that get run over by cars: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2021/05/18/wings-of-the-city-debate-questions-greenville-events-money/5097408001/

Well, I for one am very glad the elephant in the room -- the Scottish Games -- was finally addressed.  A kilt worn properly is a kilt worn with nothing at all beneath it, and the very last thing I, or any decent person, should want is to be at the Scottish Games and have our innocence destroyed by an errant updraft.  I'm saving myself for marriage!  I demand that the county take steps immediately to confiscate and destroy all kilts within the city and county of Greenville.  If they do not, they shall surely feel God's wrath.  

Edited May 19, 2021 by hauntedheadnc

[gman430]

15 minutes ago, hauntedheadnc said:

Well, I for one am very glad the elephant in the room -- the Scottish Games -- was finally addressed.  A kilt worn properly is a kilt worn with nothing at all beneath it, and the very last thing I, or any decent person, should want is to be at the Scottish Games and have our innocence destroyed by an errant updraft.  I'm saving myself for marriage!  I demand that the county take steps immediately to confiscate and destroy all kilts within the city and county of Greenville.  If they do not, they shall surely feel God's wrath.  

You must REPENT! REPENT! REPENT!  

[vicupstate]

Kirven has come around to his senses, so I hope that means that common sense will prevail.  

[gvegascple]

20 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Kirven has come around to his senses, so I hope that means that common sense will prevail.  

I should hope so, what a stupid decision to take away the  funding in the first place.  I don't think that its the folks that are terrified of art-penises that draws corporations to consider GVL for their HQ's and gets us on best of lists.  Maybe we should not be giving them the spotlight and let them enjoy their crazy in peace.

[bikeoid]

Oh dear...

GVL county council votes to pull funding from Hispanic Alliance art exhibit

 

[vicupstate]

10 hours ago, bikeoid said:

Oh dear...

GVL county council votes to pull funding from Hispanic Alliance art exhibit

 

Councilors Dan Tripp, Mike Barnes, Joe Dill, Ennis Fant, Willis Meadows, Xanthene Norris Steve Shaw and Stan Tzouvelekas voted to give the $7,500 to Artisphere instead.

Councilors Liz Seman, Lynn Ballard, Chris Harrison and Butch Kirven voted to give the money to the Hispanic Alliance.

[bikeoid]

33 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Councilors Dan Tripp, Mike Barnes, Joe Dill, Ennis Fant, Willis Meadows, Xanthene Norris Steve Shaw and Stan Tzouvelekas voted to give the $7,500 to Artisphere instead.

Councilors Liz Seman, Lynn Ballard, Chris Harrison and Butch Kirven voted to give the money to the Hispanic Alliance.

The good thing is that they have plenty of lead time for next year's Artisphere, and the Artisphere juror process can include a limit on the maximum amount of body parts that will be allowed into the show.

Here's another Op Ed point of view: Op Ed: Look up — then stand up — for the Wings of the City tonight at County Council

 

[NewlyUpstate]

11 hours ago, bikeoid said:

Oh dear...

GVL county council votes to pull funding from Hispanic Alliance art exhibit

 

Yet more evidence that the city of Greenville needs to separate itself from the county of Greenville.  This is truly embarassing.

Edited June 2, 2021 by NewlyUpstate

[goodbye]

7 hours ago, NewlyUpstate said:

Yet more evidence that the city of Greenville needs to separate itself from the county of Greenville.  This is truly embarassing.

Except the city would actually be a small town apart from the county.

I am not surprised by this decision.  Was it out of line with the general opinions of the public outside of downtown (county residents)?  I don't know.  Obviously this art exhibition is controversial, although not necessarily moreso than other nearby works (I don't remember if those were financially supported by the county).  The dilemma was apparent when several local residents expressed a vast array of perspectives, as expected.  They pay taxes and have an equal right to express themselves.  If enough opinions disagree, then changes can and probably will happen on election day.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Skyliner

[vicupstate]

I would venture a guess that 99% of the county population had no idea that one of the statute's was 'anatomically correct', before the controversy erupted. They were displayed for weeks before it became a publicized controversy and the offending statute is inside a building primarily facing away from the public.       

[NewlyUpstate]

2 hours ago, Skyliner said:

Except the city would actually be a small town apart from the county.

I am not surprised by this decision.  Was it out of line with the general opinions of the public outside of downtown (county residents)?  I don't know.  Obviously this art exhibition is controversial, although not necessarily moreso than other nearby works (I don't remember if those were financially supported by the county).  The dilemma was apparent when several local residents expressed a vast array of perspectives, as expected.  They pay taxes and have an equal right to express themselves.  If enough opinions disagree, then changes can and probably will happen on election day.

My statement was said with the assumption that the state itself would wise up on zoning laws, allowing Greenville the city to annex the land that should rightfully be within Greenville city limits and making it its own entity apart from the county.  Its extremely weird that you can easily walk to city limits from the center of downtown for a city like Greenville.  Name another city that you can do that in.