Sounds Move Ahead with Ballpark Design

[linclink]

Hey Dave,

About the IMAX... obviously I am an outsider... and I don't want to step on any toes here, since I am not yet a "Nashvillian"... however, I don't see why an IMAX would NOT be urban, or appropriate for an Urban core. I don't know what the IMAX in Nashville is like.. but ours is very much an Urban Imax/Museum of Discovery and Science. In fact, it gets more people than the Downtown Movie Theater (which may actually have to close its doors). This need not go in the area of the stadium, but it has been an amazing addition to the downtown fabric here in Fort Lauderdale, and I am sure it would be the same for Nashville. If you want downtown to be the place where Nashvillians work and play, then you have to include ALL Nashvillians, not just the singles or couples. You want a vibrant downtown that has singles, couples, retirees, families, children, teens, etc... etc... You want urban Schools, and you want places where EVERYONE can go... This is what we see here. Our Imax is packed with couples, singles, kids, etc... etc... The kids who go to school by downtown can get on the water taxi and go to the Imax. From there they can walk to the Art Museum, to the Main Library, and to the Performing Arts Center. Pretty soon the Childrens Art Museum/Toy Museum will be coming to downtown, and then families will have even more options. And yet, our downtown also offers everything an adult needs. My husband and I have gone on dates where we take the water taxi to the Imax, watch a great documentary, then walk over to one of the many restaurants and bars, take another water taxi to Las Olas, which is the historic section of town. I think that we need to have an open mind when building a downtown for people to live and play in, and we need to remember that there needs to be options available for EVERYONE. I guess the reason I don't see IMAX as anything but urban, is because the first one I ever saw was in a Downtown setting. And perhaps you cannot see it as Urban, because the first one you saw, was in a mall. But trust me, it CAN be done right. And it is just as urban as a downtown baseball stadium. Again, it doesn't need to be built next to the stadium... but downtown would benefit from having one. As for the museum of baseball.. I think that if it is to go inside the stadium, it would be a GREAT option... but if it is to be a stand alone box, than I can't see it generating enough revenue to stay open. I think that a downtown needs to offer everything that a person needs. If a downtown is to be succesful as a work/play community, it must offer its residents everything they need, they should never have to go to the suburbs, or to a mall to get what they want.

[it's just dave]

I guess you're just a bigger fan of the IMAX than I am. I guess my vision for SoBro is more conventional with a grid of streets lined by residential buildings with businesses below offering coffee shops, dry cleaners, gourmet foods, drug store, urban sundries like an urban Target and clothing stores/small dept stores. I want it resemble some of the great urban neighborhoods of the northeast i.e. Baltimore., NY's SoHo and Greenwich Village. I know that can't happen totally, but I want people who visit the area to see how people live quietly urban, in-town, and at least a few blocks away from the tourist district. I guess I might have to set my sights more to Rollling Mill Hill for a future residence if SoBro does indeed turn into a theme park.

[linclink]

heheheheh... I understand where your coming from Dave... I too would hate for it to look like a theme park... what I love about Las Olas here if Ft. Laud., is that it is exactly like the kind of place you envision.. With smaller shops, and grocers and art galleries, and the like...

But the same can be done in the vicinity of the stadium, a theater or an IMAX doesn't need to be a stand alone box. You can have shops and restaurants line a street, all at around 2 or 3 stories, with homes on top, and have a corner anchor type building at 3 stories as well, that is built to fit in with the all the other shops, but that actually houses an IMAX... or a Theater... etc... Thats harder to do if your going to have a Museum with the IMAX... but like I said, I don't think it all needs to go in the same area as the stadium... You could have an Imax there, and a museum could go across the river... but an Imax or Theater CAN be built in an urban style, to fit into a pedestrian type street, with apts on top, (obviously the IMAX wouldn't have apts. on top) and trees, and wide sidewalks, etc.. etc..

But I agree, I would hate for it to look or feel like a theme park.

Here are some pics to show what I'm talking about:

There are lots more pics that show what I'm talking about, with the shops on the bottom, apts. on top, and still being able to have some taller "anchors" at the corners... and still be smack dab in the MIDDLE of downtown... I think something like this (within Nashville type architecture, of course) would be great for the SoBro area and Gulch... And I can totally see an Imax and a Movie theater in a place like those, along side all the cool art galleries, and stores and such.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13710 (this is where lots of these pics are from, and you can see more there)

[it's just dave]

Okay, Paula. I think we're on the same page. at last.

But the Florida architecture has to go! Yuck. Give me Baltimore, Boston and Pittsburgh. lol

[linclink]

Okay, Paula. I think we're on the same page. at last.

But the Florida architecture has to go! Yuck. Give me Baltimore, Boston and Pittsburgh. lol

hahahahahaha...

It's funny, because the one thing I think I'll miss most, is precisely the florida archetecture... hahahahaa...

While I do know that it would never fit in with Nashville, I really love it. And I can't STAND the Baltimore architecture!!! hahahahaha

I love Chicago's, and Seattles... and even St. Louis has some awesome urban neighborhoods that I really loved, so maybe we can find a happy medium... hehehehehe... But I find Baltimore to be way too gritty, and brown and gray...... parts of Boston I like... not familiar with Pittsburg though, so can't say anything about that!! hehehe..

But at least we are on the same page in regards to the enviornment. I love brownstones, and and 2 or 3 story buildings with LOTS of street level shops and restaurants... it can even be very New Yorkish in nature... just not Baltimore... PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And lots and lots of trees...

But we'll agree on something... someday!!!

[linclink]

Hey Dave,

I just saw some pics of the downtown Pittsburg skyline... and I have to say that is one of the most beautifull Northeastern skylines I've seen!! Don't know what its like at street level though... maybe you could post some pics... That may be our common ground!!!

I LOVED that tall "castle" building!!!

And I love this modern building in this one pic...

I love how they have joined the modern and the old!! Would love to see some ground level pics... and urban neighborhoods!

[smeagolsfree]

and I don't want to step on any toes here, since I am not yet a "Nashvillian

Hey Paula,

Don't worry about my toes, I have steel toed boots.

I am undecided about what would be a good fit at the site as far as entertainment/retail. I agree with Dave about the IMAX though.

As far as Pittsburgh though, that is very COOL. I like that look. Maybe another city to look at would be Baltimore considering the big player there is Streuver Bros. I have not seen a lot about what they have done at the inner harbor. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

[Hankster]

Here's my two cents on this issue. The Sounds stadium is going to be located very close to the 2nd Ave, Broadway area. There are a lot of tourists there. It wouldn't hurt, IMO, to have a tourist related venue (IMAX, whatever?) in the area closest to that entertainment district. Besides, the Sounds Stadium itself is entertainment. The parts of the project at the southern end could then transition into a neighborhood environment. The entire project, entertainment and neighborhood elements alike, could be designed to blend in together using a common architectural scheme.

[linclink]

The following links give one a better idea of what to expect of Streuver Bros.

http://www.charlesvillageprojects.com/bookstore.htm

Then click on Charles Commons, Village Lofts, Village West,

http://www.harboreast.com/index.htm

http://www.clippermill.net/

Rising Sun Mills

http://www.risingsunmills.com/stuff/conten...misc/Rising.pdf

http://www.centerpointbaltimore.com/

Centerpoint:

These are just a few... but they give you the impression of the Streuver Bros style...

it's not really my thing... some of them I really liked... but most of them look like recreated

old factories... which I'm not to crazy about.. I think it's one thing to take old Factories and

turn them into lofts... but I can't understand becoming an architect to make buildings that

look like old factories... wheres the creativity in that?!?!?!

Still, if they make the area around the stadium along the lines of that Charles Commons,

Village Lofts and Village West it will look nice. I personally would like something along the

lines of the old Adelicia lofts surrounding the stadium.. I thought that building looked really

nice... Even some browstones would look nice there... I just hope its not all bland and

lifeless like some of their buildings... But again, if its like the Charles Commons ones,

those were really nice and Nashville should do well for itself...

[smeagolsfree]

Thanks for the info Paula. I expect there will be a lot of brick in the structures from the look of some of their work. I guess we will know a little more here in a couple of months.

[Hankster]

This one I like. I think it would look really good around a new ballpark. Many of the others I don't care for too much. Thanks for the insight on what we may see from Streuver. I think there's a very good chance they will come up with something that will be great for Nashville.

[it's just dave]

I love the Charles Village projects, Village West and Village Lofts. That's exactly what I'd like to see there. The brick highrises didn't do much for me, but some Charles-like developments would make me really happy. Thanks for the info, Paula. I hadn't been to the Streuver site lately.

[sleepy]

Actually, the brick highrise is my favorite, but they all look nice.

[linclink]

I just did a search on Streuver Bros. Harbor East Project... and I have to say that I

fell in love with it... but only at the street level. They seem to do really nice things at street level... but not so much vertically. But, if they bring THIS to the streetlevel of Nashville.. that would be GREAT!!

Here are some Pics (of the streetlevel):

I'm not to crazy about the roundabout...which is weird, since I usually like them... but oh well...

LOVE LOVE LOVE this BIN STOREFRONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think this facade could use some awnings (ala the first pic),

bring it more to scale with streetlevel... not liking this facade...

in the rendering they used the awnings... looks much better

Ok... it looks really nice in the renderings, and also at streetlevel... but now look at the project as

a whole... it doesn't look too nice:

I wonder if part of the problem is the color of brick they seem to favor.. that sort

of mustard brown brick... I am much more partial to the red... It pops more, adds more

color... makes things look less drab and old... this building looks really old and tired

to me... almost like it should be up for a renovation any time soon... I really don't like

that... hopefully, the street level will look as nice as the pics above, and the higher floors

will look a whole lot better than what we've seen so far...

[linclink]

Ok...

I found a place where they show the complete project!! I have to say, some parts of it I am liking very much... while others I'm not...

But if you'll go here:

http://www.harboreast.com/leasing/harboreast_brochure.pdf

On Page 8 they have some GREAT buildings... Nashville would look AWESOME

with something like these 2 towers facing the stadium...

Page 9 also has a good rendering... not sure I like that roundabout though...

Notice the GREAT outdoor cafes on Pg. 22!! Page 30 shows their really great

street level work.

All in all... its looking a little better than at first... I like their two towers, the bricks with

alot of glass looks great, and is a welcome departure from their other works which seem

to be mostly brick with small, characterless windows.. it reminds me

a bit of the old adelecia...

Just an aside:

Okay, if you'll look on the bottom of page 12... that first pic that has the 3 story buildings (one red, one white), with AWESOME looking storefronts, THATS how I would build a convention center in SoBro... I would make the facade look like a store/restaurant/etc.. lined street, that was an eclectic mix... that felt like a street that had been there for 100 years, but that was really a new convention center... it would veer 500% AWAY from the Boxes that are convention centers... and be one less mammoth on SoBro.. AND it would tie in with the residential neighborhood that everyone wants that area to be... You could have a boutique hotel on the upper 2 floors strenching more horizontally than vertically, and then have a tower or two for a bigger hotel, and convention space rise off the back (like the 2 towers do on Harbor East)... I think THAT would truly be a unique and one of a kind Convention experience... Plus the conventioners would have everything they wanted right at their fingertips... stores, laundry, restaurants, bars, etc.. etc... It could tie in to the neighborhood around the stadium.. AND it be a great place both for conventioneers AND for locals to

shop and eat... What do you guys think?

[Hankster]

All I can say is WOW!!! Thanks Paula for providing the link to this site. OH my God! I have always heard how great the Baltimore Harbor was and now I see why. This development is amazing, as massive a mix of office, retail and residential as I've ever seen. The Sounds project will be but a tiny little project compared to this. From all the experience that Streuver Bros. has gained from these developments, they should be able to put foward a spectacular proposal for Nashville. I am very excited to see what they come up with.

[linclink]

Hey Hankster!!

Your very welcome!! I was glad to see it as well... can't wait to see what Streuver Bros come up with (should they be given the chance)!!!

Hope Metro Council doesn't keep us from seeing their vision for the place!

Paula

[Hankster]

Hope Metro Council doesn't keep us from seeing their vision for the place!

What a pity that would be if that should happen.

[FutureArchitect]

I am not too thrilled with their designs. It reminds me, for some reason, of public housing projects that are typically found in the low-income areas of Chicago or the Bronx. If they are not careful, it can be easily interpreted as such.

It doesn

[linclink]

Hey FutureArchitect,

I agree with you that the buildings don't look very nice... but I think that their street level designs do... I am hoping and waiting to see if floors past ground will be any good... Their Village Lofts and Village West look ok... Again I am waiting to see if they will come up with something fresh and new for the upper floors, which I too greatly dislike.. But as I said before, I am liking the ground level architecture they've got going... hope they'll use more awnings to keep everything to scale for pedestrians (like they did in their rendering for Harbor East... don't know why they decided not to use it once the project was actually done)... I like the idea of a "neighborhood" feel, alongside the ballpark... I hope they've learned from past mistakes and will do a good job... We'll just have to wait and see what comes of it, I guess..

By the way, who would you like to see heading the design for the stadium and condos if you could have your pick of the architecture firm? If you have someone specific in mind, I'd love to see some of their work...

[cheeriokid61]

I'm not sure I agree with what you would like for the convention center, Paula. I know that that would be a very unique and one-of-a-kind experience, but I would like to see a very striking design for the convetion center. We could easily do those kinds of shops right near the convention center, so everything could still be all in the same vicinity, but I wouldn't really like for the convention center to look like something it isn't.