Park West

[Sparkie]

I have been looking over the internet for information on walkable, pedestrian friendly developments. There seem to be a lot of them out there, but not really any around NWA. (Except for HarBer Meadows). There is a group called "The Congress for New Urbanism" which is involved in projects like Seaside in Florida. It is an attempt at a walkable community and seems to be successful. I am hoping that Park West will have the charm of a place like Seaside. Without the coastal architecture of course! I have been through Seaside, but did not get to stay but for a few minutes. I am concerned about how well a walkable community works in a climate like NWA. Would it be too cold much of the year? (normal winters, not like this one.)

[Mith242]

the photo shows the development to the south of Park West. The fense line at the bottom of the photo shows the southernmost edge of Park West.

I am hoping for university bus service to Park West when it is complete. That would give it a better chance of being a real pedestrian community.

I should also point ou to those not familiar with Fayetteville that north is towards the bottom of the picture. I also agree with the bus service for there. I really think something will go out there just for the fact that the Sam's will be over in that area.

I have been looking over the internet for information on walkable, pedestrian friendly developments. There seem to be a lot of them out there, but not really any around NWA. (Except for HarBer Meadows). There is a group called "The Congress for New Urbanism" which is involved in projects like Seaside in Florida. It is an attempt at a walkable community and seems to be successful. I am hoping that Park West will have the charm of a place like Seaside. Without the coastal architecture of course! I have been through Seaside, but did not get to stay but for a few minutes. I am concerned about how well a walkable community works in a climate like NWA. Would it be too cold much of the year? (normal winters, not like this one.)

I don't think we've had a bad winter in quite a while. With the way weather patterns seem to be going we might not have to worry about a bad winter for quite a while. I guess I can't speak for everyone but I don't think I would think weather would pose any problems.

[masons_dad1]

I have been looking over the internet for information on walkable, pedestrian friendly developments. There seem to be a lot of them out there, but not really any around NWA. (Except for HarBer Meadows). There is a group called "The Congress for New Urbanism" which is involved in projects like Seaside in Florida. It is an attempt at a walkable community and seems to be successful. I am hoping that Park West will have the charm of a place like Seaside. Without the coastal architecture of course! I have been through Seaside, but did not get to stay but for a few minutes. I am concerned about how well a walkable community works in a climate like NWA. Would it be too cold much of the year? (normal winters, not like this one.)

You may have seen this website but it's a great resource for anyone concerned with pedestrian friendly developments... SmartGrowth.org

As for the winter I think it would be nice if we would start getting more snow like we did a few years ago. It would make for a great winter wonderland with people walking around a mixed use community instead of having to drive through bottlenecked traffic in the cold and wondering if the guy riding your a$$ is going to be able to stop in time instead of ruining your day.

[Mith242]

You may have seen this website but it's a great resource for anyone concerned with pedestrian friendly developments... SmartGrowth.org

As for the winter I think it would be nice if we would start getting more snow like we did a few years ago. It would make for a great winter wonderland with people walking around a mixed use community instead of having to drive through bottlenecked traffic in the cold and wondering if the guy riding your a$$ is going to be able to stop in time instead of ruining your day.

True, in some aspects being able to walk instead of drive can be useful in the wintertime.

[Sparkie]

Yesterday a friend of mine said that Park West will become the next "joyce street" with banks and stuff moving out there. I hope not. Have you ever tried walking around Joyce street? It is not pedestrian friendly at all. If banks do move out there, I hope they stick to the idea of a walkable community.

This friend of mine told me that Park West would be a failure because nobody wants to get out of their car for anything. All the stores, shops, businesses and all would have to have drive thru windows to make it.

What do you guys think?

[Mith242]

Yesterday a friend of mine said that Park West will become the next "joyce street" with banks and stuff moving out there. I hope not. Have you ever tried walking around Joyce street? It is not pedestrian friendly at all. If banks do move out there, I hope they stick to the idea of a walkable community.

This friend of mine told me that Park West would be a failure because nobody wants to get out of their car for anything. All the stores, shops, businesses and all would have to have drive thru windows to make it.

What do you guys think?

It will be hard to get some of the people out of their vehicle, that's certain. I think what they need to do is concentrate on making it available and affordable to the people that would be interested in it. I could see the development being a failure in a lot of areas of NWA but if there's any place that should be able to do it it would be Fayetteville. I know people that absolutely refuse to own a vehicle. Fayetteville has that aspect that I don't know if any other city in Arkansas has, perhaps Conway. I guess I think it's more a question of how well it will do. Will the prices scare off the people who might be most interested in it? But it could be possible that the general Fayetteville populace will embrace it as well. But it's certainly not going to be for everyone. Just as there's people who prefer north Fayetteville over downtown. I don't think they would make Park West out to be another Joyce St. I think they will make a big effort to have it more pedestrian friendly.

[masons_dad1]

If Park West is to be a "true" mixed-use community then it can only fail if it doesn't provide for it's residents needs. A "true" mixed-use community should contain:

• 24-hour gas station/convenience store

• grocery store

• pharmacy

• coffee shop

• beauty salon/spa

• fitness center

• car wash

• dry cleaner/laundromat

• daycare

• park with walking/bike trail

• eclectic restaurant

• small office space

• self-storage

The idea of a "true" mixed-use community is that a person could literally live there comfortably without ever getting in a car to drive across town. As soon as someone has to get in a car whether to get a haircut or pick up a bottle of Viagra the mixed-use community fails because since that person is already in their car they may as well stop at Wal-Mart and get gas at Murphy's and while they're at it stop for lunch at Subway and hey there's a car wash... might as well wash the car and on the way home they spot a dry cleaner... hmmm. Even though 90% of their needs are met at home they still go elsewhere for 100% of their needs.

[Mith242]

I just hope they are too self-reliant. I'd like to see these people supporting the downtown area in some fashion. Although I'm sure people will still need to check out Dickson St and such. I don't think they're going to be able to replicate that.

[mcheiss]

I just hope they are too self-reliant. I'd like to see these people supporting the downtown area in some fashion. Although I'm sure people will still need to check out Dickson St and such. I don't think they're going to be able to replicate that.

Completly agree.

I'd hate to see a project like this take away from the booming downtown right now.

[Sparkie]

Completly agree.

I'd hate to see a project like this take away from the booming downtown right now.

I doubt that Park West will take away from downtown.

[Mith242]

here's a link to another topic on Urban Planet talking about New Urbanism. It was started over two years ago but some of the things mentioned could apply to Park West so I thought people might find it interesting to check out.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...topic=1865&st=0

[masons_dad1]

I just hope they are too self-reliant. I'd like to see these people supporting the downtown area in some fashion. Although I'm sure people will still need to check out Dickson St and such. I don't think they're going to be able to replicate that.

I wouldn't say having all the amenities I listed in my previous post at your doorstep is being too self-reliant. The idea of mixed-use, IMHO, is to prevent someone from getting in their car for normal everyday type of shopping. Like I said if you get in your car to get a haircut, more than likely your going to make a few other stops on your way back home. Downtown, with it's arts, fine dining, music venues, boutique stores, library, historic sites and upscale offices will always be a draw.

[Mith242]

I wouldn't say having all the amenities I listed in my previous post at your doorstep is being too self-reliant. The idea of mixed-use, IMHO, is to prevent someone from getting in their car for normal everyday type of shopping. Like I said if you get in your car to get a haircut, more than likely your going to make a few other stops on your way back home. Downtown, with it's arts, fine dining, music venues, boutique stores, library, historic sites and upscale offices will always be a draw.

Yeah I see what you're saying. I do agree, I guess I'm just hoping it's successful but in a way not too successful that it could possibly takes away from the downtown area. But yes I think it would be hard to replicate many of the features found in the downtown so it's probably an unneeded worry.

[mcheiss]

^

I see your point Mith.

I would hate to see this project start drawing development away from the growing and thriving downtown area. It won't have everthing that Downtown Fayetteville has, but things like bars and such could start drawing away a younger crowd.

[Mith242]

^

I see your point Mith.

I would hate to see this project start drawing development away from the growing and thriving downtown area. It won't have everthing that Downtown Fayetteville has, but things like bars and such could start drawing away a younger crowd.

This New Urbanism style of planning is interesting although as mentioned does have some potential problems as well. Either way I would like to see some of it tried out at least, which appears that will happen. Although in some ways I wonder whether it will simply re-emphasize the uncentralization of our metro. But I don't know if there's much that can be done to centralize our metro. Fayetteville might have the most developed downtown but it's also at the very end of the metro area too.

[Sparkie]

This New Urbanism style of planning is interesting although as mentioned does have some potential problems as well. Either way I would like to see some of it tried out at least, which appears that will happen. Although in some ways I wonder whether it will simply re-emphasize the uncentralization of our metro. But I don't know if there's much that can be done to centralize our metro. Fayetteville might have the most developed downtown but it's also at the very end of the metro area too.

I think de-centralizing is OK if you are truely trying to develop neighborhoods (like Park West). The whole walkable concept needs several little "urban nodes" around Fayetteville. I am just afraid that Park West would stray from the initial vision and become another "mall" type area with a bunch of expensive stores and lofts that I can't afford.

[Mith242]

I think de-centralizing is OK if you are truely trying to develop neighborhoods (like Park West). The whole walkable concept needs several little "urban nodes" around Fayetteville. I am just afraid that Park West would stray from the initial vision and become another "mall" type area with a bunch of expensive stores and lofts that I can't afford.

I can't say anything about how 'upscale' it will be. I haven't really heard any of that aspect. Considering it is in Fayetteville I imagine it won't be cheap. I guess we may just have to wait until there's some more info out.

[Sparkie]

Park West seems way out ahead of the curve of the 2025 plan. It looks like the future is a return to the past.

Out of all the projects that seem to be coming down the pike labeled "mixed-use", Park west is the only one I have seen that is trying to follow the pedestrian model. What do you guys think?

[mcheiss]

I guess if you exclude Downtown, than yeah it is the only true pedestrian friendly development that I know of in Fayetteville.

I wonder how long it's going to take for this project to be completed, 10-15 years.

[Mith242]

Park West seems way out ahead of the curve of the 2025 plan. It looks like the future is a return to the past.

Out of all the projects that seem to be coming down the pike labeled "mixed-use", Park west is the only one I have seen that is trying to follow the pedestrian model. What do you guys think?

I think more are coming now like the Wellspring Community and maybe even a bit in the Southpass development. I checked out the temporary offices for Dover Kohl and at the time they were looking a lot into the Southpass development. I asked if it was because developers were listening more to them and the city since they also did the Downtown Master Plan or if it was because it's become the current trend. They said they thought it was a little of both that it is a current trend but also because developers were trying to make developments appealing to Fayetteville and this is the direction that Fayetteville is heading right now.

[Sparkie]

If park West takes 10-15 yrs to build, it will probably fail. For a mixed use pedestrian friendly urban environment to work it must reach its critical mass fast. If it takes along time it will erode like the HarBer Meadows thing.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

If park West takes 10-15 yrs to build, it will probably fail. For a mixed use pedestrian friendly urban environment to work it must reach its critical mass fast. If it takes along time it will erode like the HarBer Meadows thing.

Retail in any mixed use project will have to rely on outside users coming in.

If the retail/condo part is done first with a good mix of tenants to make the place a shopping destination first, the rest of the phases can be spread out over 10-15 years with no problem.

I can't think of a single mixed use, new urbanist development in the country that relies solely on the residents of the development to support the retail. Not even in central Dallas.

Hopefully the 10-15 year timeline is including the phases of single family houses that will ultimately complete the development and the initial retail/condo mix will happen all at once.

[Sparkie]

Retail in any mixed use project will have to rely on outside users coming in.

If the retail/condo part is done first with a good mix of tenants to make the place a shopping destination first, the rest of the phases can be spread out over 10-15 years with no problem.

I can't think of a single mixed use, new urbanist development in the country that relies solely on the residents of the development to support the retail. Not even in central Dallas.

Hopefully the 10-15 year timeline is including the phases of single family houses that will ultimately complete the development and the initial retail/condo mix will happen all at once.

I was thinking the residential housing would happen first and fast. The buildout of the "downtown" part with companies and stores and stuff would take longer. That would mean that the "loft" apartments above them would not come for a while.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

I was thinking the residential housing would happen first and fast. The buildout of the "downtown" part with companies and stores and stuff would take longer. That would mean that the "loft" apartments above them would not come for a while.

Most mixed use that I have seen developed started with the retail component, created the "location" and street scene to entice the people to want to live nearby.

Lofts come at the same time as the retail component, to be followed by townhouses & single family homes after the "location" has been established.

Southlake Town Center in Southlake, TX is a great example of this. The first component was retail and office, with a little if any residential. After the scene was created, people naturally followed, wanting to live in the setting that had been created by a well planned mixed use project.

http://www.southlaketownsquare.com/homepage.asp

My assumption has been that this would be a similar process.

HarBer stalled I think because it never really decided what it wanted to be and went about the process backwards.

The neighborhoods are neat enough, but then you have more of a thoroughfare commercial location for the retail aspect that never really gelled with the neighborhood and is essentially not really a part of it.

[mcheiss]

It seems to me that the retail portions of Mixed Use Developments are the first, followed by residential, than office.

That Southlake Town Square is goregous, I wish Lowell would do something like that or even Fayetteville. Is that in the DFW Metro?