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ChiefJoJo

Palladium Plaza

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I was there last week and noticed that they have the area fenced off where the condos are going next to Two Progress Plaza. This article focuses on the displaced businesses that are often the casualty of a growing downtown.

FYI, here is the site for the condos.

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I hate how they're not even going to be as tall as the parking deck...but oh well. Thats a tiny sliver of land they're putting it on (the area between the deck and Blount St), I'm glad it won't stay barren too much longer.

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^^ yes, it will be good to see that patch of dirt filled in, and great to have the infusion of housing in downtown; especially since it will be another good link between downtown and the neighborhoods to the east. But I can't help wishing that there was more street-level interest. Doesn't have to be retail, but how about front stoops or step-ups like the brownstones in other cities? I think that would be an awesome look to start in that area of downtown.

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^^ yes, it will be good to see that patch of dirt filled in, and great to have the infusion of housing in downtown; especially since it will be another good link between downtown and the neighborhoods to the east. But I can't help wishing that there was more street-level interest. Doesn't have to be retail, but how about front stoops or step-ups like the brownstones in other cities? I think that would be an awesome look to start in that area of downtown.

Brownstones would be awesome in Raleigh. I bet they would be a hit.

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Looking at the site, a *lot* of units have sold. It looks like they're well past the 50% usually needed to start construction. The cheapest unit left is 700 sq ft for $159k! Yikes! I hope the first floor folks will be able to give Blount street some character, but I'm afraid it might be Founders Row part II or Park Devereux. Ugh.

We should expect better for downtown than a suburban building plonked down in the middle of downtown! Two blocks from Fayetville Street!

And what is up with only three stories? They could have easily gone as high as the parking deck, but now it will just be that solid wall. It probably won't be visible at street level, but it does ruin a great chance at building up density in the downtown area. The drawing shows a beige wall as tall as the pedistrians in front of it -- not at all pedestrian friendly. I hope that changes during the construction.

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Counting up the sold signs on the website it looks like 34 out of 66 have sold. I am pleasantly surprised at the sales total.

Actually the project is 5 stories tall, the first and “third” floor units are two stories tall with the middle “second” floor units being flats. (If that makes sense)

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Counting up the sold signs on the website it looks like 34 out of 66 have sold. I am pleasantly surprised at the sales total.

Actually the project is 5 stories tall, the first and

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The project was originally 8 stories tall with ground-level retail, but it got scaled back. The city was not happy about this, because parking for this building is in the (huge) city-operated Progress Energy / Convention Center deck.

8 stories woud look so much better. I was hoping that the project would be held up, and then the scale increased when the RBC tower was announced, but it looks like the developers are sticking to their skeptic guns.

It would be nice if more residential developers would believe in downtown Raleigh. The Dawson? Scaled down. The Hudson? Scaled down. Wasn't Park Devereaux supposed to be bigger as well? But look at the momentum building in downtowns all over the country, and then all the public and private investment happening here in Raleigh, and the picture becomes clear. It's not a question of risk in downtown Raleigh but rather a question of when.

I am still waiting for any real confirmation on the "mystery" 22 story residential tower on the east side of Downtown. When that project or something like it actually happens, it will be downtown Raleigh's "Coming Out." Developers who scaled back their projects will be banging their heads on the walls in regret over the missed opportunity.

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What "mystery" tower? Where are they looking for this 22 story residential tower?

You can't blame them on not being too risky. That is a lot of money to gamble if something fails, not to mention jobs. Let them test the market and see what happens. I'm sure we will see larger proposals on the horizon.

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What "mystery" tower? Where are they looking for this 22 story residential tower?

There has been a rumor floating around about a 22-story residential tower somewhere on the east side of downtown for several months now. Not sure if there is any substance to it or not. I honestly doubt it since the information is so vague, so I wouldn't put much stake in it, but if it were to happen it would definitely be the start of bigger things.

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I agree about the risk part. It's easy to say to a developer: "go ahead and build bigger, it's just a matter of when the momentum will take shape..." I'd love for someone to build Palladium Plaza 8 stories, but it appears as though the market still isn't quite there. We have to realize that DT is still a work in progress (pardon the pun), and each of these developments is a step towards gaining more momentum.

Also consider that the developer must obtain financing to build the condos, all the while absorbing the cost of the property purchase that took place to make the project possible in the first place (~ $1M/acre or more). If the bank won't buy off on the viability of the project, you can't build it. This is what happened to the project before I believe, except, I believe. The only difference is Progress Energy owns the land, and can easily absorb the cost of waiting to sell the units. The previous developer overestimated the real estate market (too many condos at too high a price), and the sales suffered, so it never got off the ground. White Oak took it over, and it looks like they are breaking ground. Hey, I'm happy to see it finally being built.

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I just don't like the fact that this block lies in the diagonal from Site 1 to City Market.

It is going to be difficult to convince people to walk from the new CC to City Market if their options are walking along Wilmington Street that has the esclator/stairs into buildings on the west side and parking deck on the west side. On Cabarrus and Blount, it won't be any better, except for Lincoln Theater (for now). Everything else will be condos from this and Founders row, or parking (again for now, but at least for the forseeable future since nothing appears to be proposed). Davie street is a little better, with Iatria, Coopers, etc. on that block, but street level between the newly renamed Capital Bank building and the progress energy gated thing leaves a lot to be desired as well. The city built both parking decks on that block and didn't put retail in to keep from adding to the empty store fronts in the rest of downtown at the time.

I *hope* this will be a project that opens developers eyes to the possiblities of a vibrant downtown.

But I am afraid that every developer wanting to build a residential structure downtown will say to the planning commission "Palladium, Dawson, Paramount, Park Devereux, Founders Row, Boylan Flats, West Martin street, etc. had little to no ground floor retail/office/whatever so I shouldn't have to either."

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The Dawson actually has 3 retail spaces. It was originally designed for 2, and now they are expanding into part of the parking lot area for a 3rd. A restaurant/bar has already leased the larger space, and I'm assuming that they anticipate demand for the others since they are expanding.

Park Devereaux was orignally planned to have retail on the ground floor, but they ended up changing it to more condos due to demand (at least that's what I was told).

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I just don't like the fact that this block lies in the diagonal from Site 1 to City Market.

It is going to be difficult to convince people to walk from the new CC to City Market if their options are walking along Wilmington Street that has the esclator/stairs into buildings on the west side and parking deck on the west side. On Cabarrus and Blount, it won't be any better, except for Lincoln Theater (for now). Everything else will be condos from this and Founders row, or parking (again for now, but at least for the forseeable future since nothing appears to be proposed). Davie street is a little better, with Iatria, Coopers, etc. on that block, but street level between the newly renamed Capital Bank building and the progress energy gated thing leaves a lot to be desired as well. The city built both parking decks on that block and didn't put retail in to keep from adding to the empty store fronts in the rest of downtown at the time.

I *hope* this will be a project that opens developers eyes to the possiblities of a vibrant downtown.

But I am afraid that every developer wanting to build a residential structure downtown will say to the planning commission "Palladium, Dawson, Paramount, Park Devereux, Founders Row, Boylan Flats, West Martin street, etc. had little to no ground floor retail/office/whatever so I shouldn't have to either."

I agree, ground floor retail is essential for a livable walkable city. I believe the city parking deck facing Wilmington St (the CC deck its called) has knock out spaces for retail. Charley Goodnights was supposed to move there at one time but backed out. The original intent of the old CC and still the likely travel path between everything near site 1 and city market is up Fayetteville St and over on Martin Street. Palladium Plaza, despite being 5 stories, will have a substantial feeling to it because to stretches the width of the block. That is a lot of condos on a paper thin piece of land as well. Also 50% in presales is the typical amount needed before a bank will allow construction to proceed if the are the primary financial backer for a project. Hudson got going without that many presales because Joyner Realty ponied up cash as colateral. The Dawson on the other hand, lay in the proposed pile forever because they offered no cash colateral (the safer way to do business) and could never get to to 50% presold.

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Speaking of sales at Bloomsbury, Palladium is at 49 out of 66 which is way better than I expected. I did not think that side of town would draw like Glenwood South does.

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The cheapest unit left is 700 sq ft for $159k! Yikes!

It's $199k now. :o Not surprisingly the ones left unsold are the larger, higher priced units.

Is there no ground floor retail?

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There's been talk of Moonlight Pizza occupying some of the space at ground level. Not sure whether that's true or not.

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There was an article in the N&O today talking about business owners buying commercial condos instead of paying rent and they mentioned there will be three commercial condos in Palladium - one for Ann Cabell's business, should it need to expand.

Buying the space instead

But so far, sales have been brisk. White Oak pre-sold three retail condos at Palladium Plaza, being built at Blount and Davie streets in downtown Raleigh.

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their is some retail around the corner that is starting to open.. Pharoahs and a couple of skin care type places. I think a spa is opening up too.

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I saw that but didn't work too hard to find this thread earlier. I guess of the three spaces, one is Moonlight's, one is the real estate agency/salon, and the third is sold, but its use has not been announced yet.

The website does not distinguish between first floor residential and retail condo units.

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From the website, it is not apparent if the first floor of residential condos are on the same story as the office condos. Living above a bar or office is reasonable (with an appropriate amount of dead space and insulation between floors), but is living *next to* a bar a good idea?

From the picture, the balconies on the first residential floor don't appear to be at street level. I think this was done for security purposes. The ground floor could be the three office condos and "caged" storage space for the residential units, like some of the internal space in the Hudson.

I need to go by there by foot instead of care again soon. Hopefully it is far enough along to answer these questions!

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From the website, it is not apparent if the first floor of residential condos are on the same story as the office condos. Living above a bar or office is reasonable (with an appropriate amount of dead space and insulation between floors), but is living *next to* a bar a good idea?

From the picture, the balconies on the first residential floor don't appear to be at street level. I think this was done for security purposes. The ground floor could be the three office condos and "caged" storage space for the residential units, like some of the internal space in the Hudson.

I need to go by there by foot instead of care again soon. Hopefully it is far enough along to answer these questions!

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There are five floors in Palladium Plaza. The first floor and second floor are actually first floor two level units. These units have 100 - 121 as the unit number. 101 - 109 are one bedroom units witha beroom and bath on the second floor. The units 110 - 121 are two bedroom units. All first floor units prior to completion of the unit and facade can be purchased as work/live units with street access directly from Blount or Cabarras Street as well as access from the first floor corridor in the building. The third floor has one and two bedroom flat units designated as 200 - 218. The fourth and fith floor are two level units designated as 301 - 328. You also might llook at the www.palladiumplaza.com website.

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