JCPenney - Hickory Hollow Mall

[LA_TN]

Employees stated the store will close Feb 25

[cowboytim]

Wonderful! Antioch can continue its inexorable decline! Hope I still make a measly 4.5% per year on my home's value!

[fieldmarshaldj]

I'm new to this website. I've lived in Piccadilly Square subdivision (about 2 miles north of HHM, "as the crow flies") and I am uncomfortable with the crowds and behavior there.

Yeesh, you're right next door to me.

I remember when Piccadilly was dense woods inhabited by a magical and nutty old lady hermit (her family's cemetery is just a few hundred feet from my backyard). OK, maybe I made up the magical part. Back in the late '70s/early '80s, us kids were scared to venture back there lest she put us in her crow stew pot.

Wonderful! Antioch can continue its inexorable decline! Hope I still make a measly 4.5% per year on my home's value!

That's what YOU think.

[cowboytim]

Yeesh, you're right next door to me.

And you would be where?

I remember when Piccadilly was dense woods inhabited by a magical and nutty old lady hermit (her family's cemetery is just a few hundred feet from my backyard). OK, maybe I made up the magical part. Back in the late '70s/early '80s, us kids were scared to venture back there lest she put us in her crow stew pot.

That's what YOU think.

Piccadilly still IS dense woods -- and even denser homeowners. Purchasing in here was a gross error. Clarify your "that's what YOU think" comment, please.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Piccadilly still IS dense woods -- and even denser homeowners. Purchasing in here was a gross error. Clarify your "that's what YOU think" comment, please.

Well, at least it took 10 years to become a slum (unlike some of the stuff across U/A pike, which seems to be becoming slums within weeks after being built). The little icon on your second comment was probably a little too cruel to inflict on you, but I'd be mighty surprised if you're able to sell out your home for what you paid for it. Maybe you can find a drug dealer willing to pay top $$, that might be your best hope.

[cowboytim]

Well, at least it took 10 years to become a slum (unlike some of the stuff across U/A pike, which seems to be becoming slums within weeks after being built). The little icon on your second comment was probably a little too cruel to inflict on you, but I'd be mighty surprised if you're able to sell out your home for what you paid for it. Maybe you can find a drug dealer willing to pay top $$, that might be your best hope.

Well, I appreciate yer "insight," fieldmarshaldj. And you will be surprised to know that I will list -- and sell --for about 18% more than I paid. Your use of the "clickable smilies" doesn't faze me at all. Now, as far as a drug dealer purchasing my home -- well, I really don't care who the buyer is as long as they're a qualified bidder. Perhaps you'd care to share which neighborhood/subdivision you grace with your presence...

[fieldmarshaldj]

Well, I appreciate yer "insight," fieldmarshaldj. And you will be surprised to know that I will list -- and sell --for about 18% more than I paid. Your use of the "clickable smilies" doesn't faze me at all. Now, as far as a drug dealer purchasing my home -- well, I really don't care who the buyer is as long as they're a qualified bidder. Perhaps you'd care to share which neighborhood/subdivision you grace with your presence...

18% ? Wow, I am impressed ! As for me, I'm not in a subdivision. I'm in one of those original homes along U/A Pike. Now, if only we can get my property rezoned commercial, we can sell out for the really big bucks.

[cowboytim]

Ya just have to "one-up" ever'body, don'tcha, field... Well, I hope ya get yer "big bucks" as the area declines.

[ricky_the_great]

HHM's predicament sounds like Hickory Ridge in Memphis. Built in 1981, it was the place to go until Wolfchase opened in 1997. Now it is in the middle of an almost totally black neighborhood, and even though many national chains are still there and its occupancy rate remains healthy, you'll be hard pressed to find a white person who has been there since 2000. People say that the opening of the Carriage Crossing in Collierville will be the death of Hickory Ridge, but why? None of the G'town/C'ville people were shopping at Hickory Ridge, anyway.

thats true. germantown and Collierville always went to wolfchase. so the construction of the new mall will maybe hurt wolfchase for a little bit. but with the growth of bartlett, cordova and lakeland. wolfchase should be in good shape, unless demographics change drasitically.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Ya just have to "one-up" ever'body, don'tcha, field... Well, I hope ya get yer "big bucks" as the area declines.

One-up ever'body ? Would I do that ?

[xyhamiltonboi]

Let me be the first to say Hickory Hollow Mall is not on the way down or dying. JCPenney nationwide is pulling out of malls as it's operating agreement expires. CBL has more than just Hickory Hollow that has lost an anchor. Due to Federated and May merging that leaves somes stores dark. Belk buying McRae's and Proffitt's has left some stores dark and of course our subject JCPenney.

Because of the case and point, the money spent on Hickory Hollow Mall. It won't just be another mall gone down hill. CBL has the experience to redevelop that anchor and fill it again. Also CBL tendacy to lease spaces to temporary tenants who are typically urban. They can be found in every mall. They typically stay there until they find something better. Now take a look at what Hickory Hollow Mall has gained in the last 3 years and you'll realize that it will be around for another 25 years.

[rocky top buzz]

Yeah, the number one location for car thiefs in the county; I can't wait to go visit!

I won't totally discount CBL's abililty to reviatize the area, but I will question their desire. Wasn't it said recently on this post that Hickory Hollow Mall was looking for a buyer?

You do have to look at the fact that not only is the JC Penny gone, so are many surrounding stores in the area. And yet there is still grid-lock on Bell Road! What would really help that area would be a few less Kia and Hyundai dealerships, and more VW, Toyota, and Honda dealerships

[xyhamiltonboi]

Yeah, the number one location for car thiefs in the county; I can't wait to go visit!

I won't totally discount CBL's abililty to reviatize the area, but I will question their desire. Wasn't it said recently on this post that Hickory Hollow Mall was looking for a buyer?

You do have to look at the fact that not only is the JC Penny gone, so are many surrounding stores in the area. And yet there is still grid-lock on Bell Road! What would really help that area would be a few less Kia and Hyundai dealerships, and more VW, Toyota, and Honda dealerships

Hickory Hollow Mall is not looking for a buyer at this point. JCPenney may have left, but look at the rest of the tenants on the roster. Many surrounding stores may leave, but it's the mall that will pull them back. Regardless of what leaves the area Hickory Hollow has had successful very successful years. It has many more to come. I will continue to write here as I find things that are going on. I am currently the main writer of the COLUMBIA PLACE MALL forum in Columbia South Carolina and always watch CBL

[satalac]

Let me be the first to say Hickory Hollow Mall is not on the way down or dying. JCPenney nationwide is pulling out of malls as it's operating agreement expires. CBL has more than just Hickory Hollow that has lost an anchor. Due to Federated and May merging that leaves somes stores dark. Belk buying McRae's and Proffitt's has left some stores dark and of course our subject JCPenney.

Because of the case and point, the money spent on Hickory Hollow Mall. It won't just be another mall gone down hill. CBL has the experience to redevelop that anchor and fill it again. Also CBL tendacy to lease spaces to temporary tenants who are typically urban. They can be found in every mall. They typically stay there until they find something better. Now take a look at what Hickory Hollow Mall has gained in the last 3 years and you'll realize that it will be around for another 25 years.

i work at electronic express in the mall. trust me, it's dying.

[xyhamiltonboi]

i work at electronic express in the mall. trust me, it's dying.

I'm going to talk to CBL this week and find any new information about the mall. As far as I'm seeing it's not dying, and hopefully I can help you all with finding out what really is going on.

[fieldmarshaldj]

I'm going to talk to CBL this week and find any new information about the mall. As far as I'm seeing it's not dying, and hopefully I can help you all with finding out what really is going on.

With all due respect, sir, I am a lifelong resident of Antioch, one of the very few who can claim that distinction in this mostly-transient area, and I can tell you Hickory Hollow isn't what it was when it opened 28 years ago. There's fewer people going there now, with the likelihood that Sears will be departing (which, too, was going downhill during the time my ex was working there until a little over 2 years ago), not a single of the original anchors will be left. I rarely go there myself, and as one who grew up going there, it is a rather sad sight to behold these days. What crime that went on there previously was of the petty or juvenile variety, very minor and usually out of sight, to the point now that shootings there are not unheard of. Just outside the mall at a nearby store a young man was brutally murdered not long after he quit a job where he was robbed at gunpoint.

HHM is suffering from a lot of that psychological damage and the perceptions. Most of the shoppers that used to frequent it (such as middle-aged to older White women) no longer feel safe doing their shopping there and go elsewhere. I've visited there during the day and it seems almost deserted and with an element whom is clearly there not to shop. My ex experienced chronic shoplifting at that Sears, especially after the demographic shift escalated. In a lot of ways, it seems to be fast becoming like the disastrous Fountain Square Mall of the late '80s, which was located near housing projects and became a magnet for crime and most residents preferred to go elsewhere to avoid it. As it stands, I have a lot of respect for the folks that continue to tough it out who work there, I'm not sure I'd feel entirely safe doing that. I would be very surprised if HHM even EXISTS in its current incarnation in 10 years, if drastic and dramatic steps aren't taken to improve the situation there and change people's perceptions and get back a lot of the old shoppers and a different economic demographic group (and I'm afraid those may be far too late to implement).

[satalac]

With all due respect, sir, I am a lifelong resident of Antioch, one of the very few who can claim that distinction in this mostly-transient area, and I can tell you Hickory Hollow isn't what it was when it opened 28 years ago. There's fewer people going there now, with the likelihood that Sears will be departing (which, too, was going downhill during the time my ex was working there until a little over 2 years ago), not a single of the original anchors will be left. I rarely go there myself, and as one who grew up going there, it is a rather sad sight to behold these days. What crime that went on there previously was of the petty or juvenile variety, very minor and usually out of sight, to the point now that shootings there are not unheard of. Just outside the mall at a nearby store a young man was brutally murdered not long after he quit a job where he was robbed at gunpoint.

HHM is suffering from a lot of that psychological damage and the perceptions. Most of the shoppers that used to frequent it (such as middle-aged to older White women) no longer feel safe doing their shopping there and go elsewhere. I've visited there during the day and it seems almost deserted and with an element whom is clearly there not to shop. My ex experienced chronic shoplifting at that Sears, especially after the demographic shift escalated. In a lot of ways, it seems to be fast becoming like the disastrous Fountain Square Mall of the late '80s, which was located near housing projects and became a magnet for crime and most residents preferred to go elsewhere to avoid it. As it stands, I have a lot of respect for the folks that continue to tough it out who work there, I'm not sure I'd feel entirely safe doing that. I would be very surprised if HHM even EXISTS in its current incarnation in 10 years, if drastic and dramatic steps aren't taken to improve the situation there and change people's perceptions and get back a lot of the old shoppers and a different economic demographic group (and I'm afraid those may be far too late to implement).

exactly. i've been going to this mall since the 80s and i've definatly noticed a difference. whenever i tell people that i work at hickory hollow mall, they always say something like "aren't you scared to work there?" the recent shootings there haven't helped any. while i'm not scared to work at the mall, there is still that stigma that is keeping many people from going there. also, traffic there is horrible. getting to and from the mall around 5-7 is ridiculous. at cool springs there are multiple ways to get to the mall, while at hickory hollow, bell road is really the main road serving the mall. my fellow employees and managers have been wanting to get out of the mall for a while now. it's turned into a place to hang out, not a place to actually buy things.

[fieldmarshaldj]

exactly. i've been going to this mall since the 80s and i've definatly noticed a difference. whenever i tell people that i work at hickory hollow mall, they always say something like "aren't you scared to work there?" the recent shootings there haven't helped any. while i'm not scared to work at the mall, there is still that stigma that is keeping many people from going there. also, traffic there is horrible. getting to and from the mall around 5-7 is ridiculous. at cool springs there are multiple ways to get to the mall, while at hickory hollow, bell road is really the main road serving the mall. my fellow employees and managers have been wanting to get out of the mall for a while now. it's turned into a place to hang out, not a place to actually buy things.

The problem, too, isn't just the mall itself, but the fact that stores are leaving that are nearby. Smaller businesses (including the one where that young man was killed), and also Toys R Us were considerable losses. I have no idea what is going to occupy the latter. Some of the road infrastructure is a nightmare, beginning with the ludicrous railroad/interstate underpass (to my knowledge, the railroad underpass has remained unchanged for DECADES, which simply defies the imagination). I'm amazed more accidents and traffic jams don't occur there on a daily basis. I wouldn't get off at that Bell Road interstate exit if you paid me good money.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it may simply be too late to get past the current demographics. When I last went to Cool Springs, I took a look around and said, "This is what Hickory Hollow was in the '80s." I see no way to get them back. Why would they want to shop at HHM's declining stores dodging surly punks, lowlifes, and people that are there to shopLIFT ?

[xyhamiltonboi]

exactly. i've been going to this mall since the 80s and i've definatly noticed a difference. whenever i tell people that i work at hickory hollow mall, they always say something like "aren't you scared to work there?" the recent shootings there haven't helped any. while i'm not scared to work at the mall, there is still that stigma that is keeping many people from going there. also, traffic there is horrible. getting to and from the mall around 5-7 is ridiculous. at cool springs there are multiple ways to get to the mall, while at hickory hollow, bell road is really the main road serving the mall. my fellow employees and managers have been wanting to get out of the mall for a while now. it's turned into a place to hang out, not a place to actually buy things.

The problem is the perception that people have when a mall starts catering to etnic crowds. Hickory Hollow Mall has opened a view urban stores, but has maintained it's position. CBL just purchased that mall not many years ago and has since breathed new life into it. Despite what you see there I Know for a fact that two of the stores there are making the bank.

New Stores Auntie Anne's Pretzels and Street Corner News and recently remodeled Things Remembered and Dress Code in 2004. They added Linen's N Things as well as secured more years on Gaps lease. You guys don't know what a dead or dying mall is you need to visit www.eastlandmall.com to see a mall going down hill. Yankee Candle, City Gear and Hibbett's Sports have opened there and just to let you know Yankee Candle passed by the mall in my area in Columbia South Carolina. The reason I can talk about Hickory Hollow is because 1. i've done the research and two i've worked in that mall at a store that did so well they moved from cart to inline.

[fieldmarshaldj]

The problem is the perception that people have when a mall starts catering to etnic crowds. Hickory Hollow Mall has opened a view urban stores, but has maintained it's position. CBL just purchased that mall not many years ago and has since breathed new life into it. Despite what you see there I Know for a fact that two of the stores there are making the bank.

New Stores Auntie Anne's Pretzels and Street Corner News and recently remodeled Things Remembered and Dress Code in 2004. They added Linen's N Things as well as secured more years on Gaps lease. You guys don't know what a dead or dying mall is you need to visit www.eastlandmall.com to see a mall going down hill. Yankee Candle, City Gear and Hibbett's Sports have opened there and just to let you know Yankee Candle passed by the mall in my area in Columbia South Carolina. The reason I can talk about Hickory Hollow is because 1. i've done the research and two i've worked in that mall at a store that did so well they moved from cart to inline.

Um, my ex was one of those "ethnic" people you describe, and SHE did not feel comfortable working there, which she did for 3 years beginning in 2000. Her descriptions of the people there and the daily ordeals she went through made things harrowing. I'm sure it made her feel really warm and fuzzy seeing people who "looked" like her steal on a daily basis (including doing other unspeakable acts that I can't repeat on a family website). Your expertise with the mall is quite different from the rest of us who actually live here, sir.

I've also seen two other malls that I used to frequent as a youngster in the '70s and '80s go belly-up here in Nashville, including the now-demolished Harding Mall and the previous (and for that matter, current) incarnation of 100 Oaks. I can see the same symptoms afflicting HHM at this point that will likely lead to its demise.

[StevenRocks]

It's hard to fight the fear of "too many" ethnic customers.

I put "too many" in quotes because I've noticed in any number of cases, when a mall reaches a certain tipping point of nonwhite shoppers, it is percieved as a "bad" mall. This benchmark varies in each market and at each mall, but the complaints by white (and some nonwhite) shoppers are always the same: something amounting to "this mall is going downhill"

I chalk it up to rascism. Pure and simple.

Before you begin your onslaught on my opinion, consider this: JCPenney has been closing stores left and right over the last ten years, most of which were oversized and poorly located. Their new growth is focused on strip malls where more of their "core shoppers" are shopping these days.

Though JCPenney stores at all kinds of malls have been cut, the cuts were most egregious at malls with large numbers of ethnic shoppers. The reason: they react the same way that many of us react to black and brown faces: with contempt.

Never mind that JCPenney's best stores sales-wise tend to be in diverse neighborhoods and that shoppers tend to loyally support them in same. They're more fearful of perception than reality, which is why the store at Columbia Place Mall (where xyhamiltonboi is near) closed down recently. The mall was not going under; it was getting browner, and JCPenney did not want their store in "that type of mall."

JCPenney is not the economic barometer of modern retail. Neither is Sears. If this was 1976 and the stores closed down, that would be a big deal. In 2006, it's just business, with a healthy slice of fear on the side.

Were it me, I'd be more concerned about Dillard's and Hecht's closing down. From what I can tell, neither of them is planning this at Hickory Hollow. If you want to talk about stores primarily supported by middle aged, middle income white women, they would be closer to the mark than JCPenney, to be sure. Those stores closing would also be more indicative of what's going on economically in the neighborhood, because both stores tend to carry more expensive merchandise than JCPenney ever did.

[satalac]

The problem is the perception that people have when a mall starts catering to etnic crowds. Hickory Hollow Mall has opened a view urban stores, but has maintained it's position. CBL just purchased that mall not many years ago and has since breathed new life into it. Despite what you see there I Know for a fact that two of the stores there are making the bank.

New Stores Auntie Anne's Pretzels and Street Corner News and recently remodeled Things Remembered and Dress Code in 2004. They added Linen's N Things as well as secured more years on Gaps lease. You guys don't know what a dead or dying mall is you need to visit www.eastlandmall.com to see a mall going down hill. Yankee Candle, City Gear and Hibbett's Sports have opened there and just to let you know Yankee Candle passed by the mall in my area in Columbia South Carolina. The reason I can talk about Hickory Hollow is because 1. i've done the research and two i've worked in that mall at a store that did so well they moved from cart to inline.

actually auntie anne's pretzels has left and so did street corner news (but a new one did just open up under new ownership). so you admit that there is a problem (your comment about perception of the ethnic crowds) that is keeping people out of the mall. while it's a bad reason that people aren't coming into the mall, it's still a real problem that is keeping people out of the mall. some of those urban stores still don't do all that well. everytime i pass them they have nobody in them, just like the rest of the mall. the mall doesn't even have a music store in it. that's a real sign that it's going down hill. the sad fact is that the mall is dying, even after the millions that CBL put into it. until they can convince people that it's a safe mall once again, there will be no upswing in customers. btw, when was the last time you worked at the mall and what store did you work at?

[rocky top buzz]

It amazes me how much racism is tossed around on this board. I don't think racism has anything to do with HHM. If there were a bunch of punk white kids dressed like thugs hanging around the entrance, I would be equally turned away. Fact is, these are primarily black kids because that's the demographics of the area. There are a lot of black people who shop at the Kroger, Publix, and Wal-Mart in Smyrna, but they don't congregate at night for no reason around the main entrances, and I feel extremely safe shopping in those places. Maybe this isn't a black-vs-white issue, maybe like everything else it's an urban-vs-suburban issue. HHM has several stores that cater to white men and women, and several stores that cater to black men and women. There is no problem there; if the mall could change the perception of crime, the whole area would change.

I thought Macy's bought Hecht's and Dillards? Wouldn't one of them close in favor of a single Macy's store?

And xyhamiltonboi, just curious, have you ever actually been to HHM, or even recently? I'm not saying you can't get good inside info from CBL, but most of us around here don't care if there are one or two stores keeping that place afloat. Bell Road is part of our infrastructure here, and if it only looks good on paper, that's not good for us. It needs to look good on paper and in person.

[xyhamiltonboi]

To respond to two different issues. Music stores as a whole are not doing well. On one of CBL's conference calls they said they would not invest in stores for Music, Toys or Books unless it's a major big box concept like Best Buy or Barnes & Noble. Lets face it Music stores in malls because of rent rip people off. I live in Columbia South Carolina where we have 4 malls and none of them have music stores. Macy's bought Hecht's only. So this weekend or next Hecht's will become a full scale Macy's. Dillard's and Sears will remain. CBL is testing out a policy at select malls called Y.E.P. which is Youth Escort Policy that stops kids from hanging out on Friday and Saturday Nights and it has worked at Columbia Place in South Carolina.

The only mall that I've ever written off that CBL owned is Springdale Mall in Mobile, AL because a mall was opened right across the street from it. There's always something new going on. Throughout CBL's portfolio there are a lot of dark anchors. This is truly a chance for Hickory Hollow Mall. JCPenney really doesn't compete with a Macy's or Dillard's. This is a chance for CBL to redevelop and refill that space with something that could transform the area. There are still many dollars to be spent in Hickory Hollow Mall and this itself will allow for someone to come in to add to the mix to keep Hickory Hollow Mall as one of Nashville's great shopping places.

[fieldmarshaldj]

It amazes me how much racism is tossed around on this board. I don't think racism has anything to do with HHM. If there were a bunch of punk white kids dressed like thugs hanging around the entrance, I would be equally turned away. Fact is, these are primarily black kids because that's the demographics of the area. There are a lot of black people who shop at the Kroger, Publix, and Wal-Mart in Smyrna, but they don't congregate at night for no reason around the main entrances, and I feel extremely safe shopping in those places. Maybe this isn't a black-vs-white issue, maybe like everything else it's an urban-vs-suburban issue. HHM has several stores that cater to white men and women, and several stores that cater to black men and women. There is no problem there; if the mall could change the perception of crime, the whole area would change.

Although I disagree with the conclusion behind their points, they are correct that racism is a factor, but that it's tied to the other issues that make the situation at HHM what it is now. Whereas in the '80s and into the '90s, it was a middle class mall, today, it is far less so. I think most of us have an acute sense of people themselves, and you know when you're around a better class of folks, regardless of race. HHM was never an "all White" mall, always having at least 1/5th-1/4th or higher the shoppers there being Black (until the '90s when the % increased), and aside from their skin color, there was absolutely nothing to distinguish them from any other shopper there. What my ex observed working at the mall was that it wasn't Black people that were the "problem", but more with Hispanics (she being part Hispanic herself, and was, in fact, hired on the spot for the purposes of "catering" to the "new" demographics). More than a "few", she suspected, were illegals, and unlike the erroneous catchphrase "they're just here to work", what she witnessed was that "they were just here to steal." These were widescale problems that simply didn't exist 15 years ago at HHM. I'd surely, too, feel comfortable in saying the previous middle-class Black clientele of HHM now likely shops at Green Hills or Cool Springs. They no more wish to be around a low-class and somewhat stressful and unsafe shopping environment than any other racial group would.