Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit

[scm]

What if you're running late or have an early morning Dr's appointment? Want to try finding a parking spot at 10a? Good luck.

Chances are, if you are going to work at the NS, your Dr's appointment is at the NS as well. Fact of life in military medicine.

[scm]

Interestting discussion, I'm not sure I can come up with one transit system that has a stop at a Military Installation.

San Diego Trolley stops off base, right next to the SD equivalent of NS Norfolk (main base for surface ships). Between the main gate and the majority of the base single housing. I don't think I ever remember seeing that many people using it to commute (but that is based on a limited sample size).

You guys need to get into the head of the average Navy commuter. There is a good reason the NS has a higher percentage of SOV commuters than HR as a whole -- and no matter what you build, there is never going to be the kind of ridership expected. That's why there isn't greater ridership on the existing express buses. I forgot who said it, but they said almost everyone on the Hampton Blvd. bus gets off at International (NIT front gate, and blocks before the NS). That average Navy commuter a: doesn't live in Ghent or downtown -- he lives off LC Road or in OV. And b: he is in love with his car. Believe me -- I saw them for 27 years. You will never get them to give it up.

[vaceltic]

Thats who the car dealerships go after anyways with the mustangs and hot rods!

[vdogg]

Buried within this horrific development about our states transportation crisis is this nugget of gold.

Both chambers approved a bill instructing the state to seek bids within 90 days for extension of a light rail service from Newtown Road in Norfolk to near the Oceanfront.

It's in kaines hands now.

[Henry_Ryto]

After HB 6028 passed the House 93-0, I sent out an e-mail about going to Richmond to testify before the Senate Transportation Committee. They then ram it through the Senate the same night.

Oh well, I don't see any problem getting Kaine to sign: not only has he supported Norfolk's Starter Line, but supports Transportation change.

[carolinaboy]

Henry (or anyone else who knows). The bids for extension, would they be bids for design work? Then later bids for construction?

Does this mean the extension is a done deal, or what?

If you haven't done so already, please explain it to me/us.

[vdogg]

After HB 6028 passed the House 93-0, I sent out an e-mail about going to Richmond to testify before the Senate Transportation Committee. They then ram it through the Senate the same night.

Oh well, I don't see any problem getting Kaine to sign: not only has he supported Norfolk's Starter Line, but supports Transportation change.

Oh he has been more than supportive of LR, but he has expressed reservations about this particular bill and its method of funding. That said, the fact that the democrat led senate passed this should make it hard for him to veto it.

[Henry_Ryto]

The next step would be to commission a Draft Enviromental Impact Statement (DEIS) for a Newtown Road - Dome site extension.

The $64,000 Question is "Does the FTA approve?" Theoretically, you could build the line as a PPTA without Federal money if you could draw investors. However, Federal money makes it infinitely easier. Therefore, it's not a done deal until the FTA stamps it "RECCOMENDED".

[vdogg]

Extension ok'd, but process could take years

As I said, I'm not sure if Kaine will sign this:

Before becoming law, the Tata bill must be considered by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, whose hopes for the special session were grander than light rail legislation. Kaine hasn't decided if he will sign the bill.

"I don't think that the bill is something that would represent real progress on transportation," said Kaine spokeswoman Delacey Skinner.

I hope he does, as something is better than absolutely nothing, which is all we will have gotten out of this special session if he doesn't. That said, it's a coin toss.

[RJWGMU]

Decent article... When I read it there was only one reply from Henry, which was good... I wrote a rather lengthy reply with a few jabs at NIMYs... EXTREMELY subtle... haha... anyway, do they have to approve each reply?

[Henry_Ryto]

The Administration spokesperson was probably simply miffed over the special session. Everyone I've spoken to expects Kaine to sign it.

[Sky06]

The Administration spokesperson was probably simply miffed over the special session. Everyone I've spoken to expects Kaine to sign it.

My impression is that if Kaine doesn't sign this, it will only be because it won't really cause anything to happen--at least for a while. Unless I don't understand how things work, VB needs to actively take the lead in finding sources of funding for the extension. The way VB works, that concerns me a bit.

[urbanlife]

most of the time, light rail projects begin because they become part of the highway improvements. That is how Portland got its first lines. We canned the idea for an additional stretch of highway in exchange for light rail. Which we are still expanding.

The plus to the rising costs of gas is that it is beginning to tie hands and forcing governments to approve other forms of transportation. I have comes to terms that the only way for Americans to change their ways is to force the to change. So with the way things are going, it will eventually happen, there will be a line that runs from NOB to Virginia Beach. NOB to Chesapeake, then the from there, they will expand to the airport and possibly tunnel to the Peninsula. Granted none of this will happen over night. For Portland to get to where it is today, it has taken us over 40 years. But again, with the rises that are going to happen, it might be the shot in the arm this country needs to make these projects happen faster. Because regions like Hampton Roads needs to begin desuburbanizing. Which means that region is prime to have more than just seven downtowns. It should be covered in 20 to 30 urban centers that support the region throughout.

I know I am talking a little grand scale here, but I have a feeling these changes will happen even to regions like Hampton Roads.

[MissySchmidt]

with the rises that are going to happen, it might be the shot in the arm this country needs to make these projects happen faster. Because regions like Hampton Roads needs to begin desuburbanizing. Which means that region is prime to have more than just seven downtowns. It should be covered in 20 to 30 urban centers that support the region throughout.

I totally agree!

Gas prices are higher all over the world vice the U.S. (ok, except maybe Dubai, UAE and Saudi Arabia). I don't like paying higher prices at the pump, but applaud it finally happening here. I knew it would force the issue of improved transportation infrastructure with the American people.

It has changed my outlook: staying closer to home, walking whenever possible (we live in downtown Norfolk), buying more local products, recycling more and realizing that more oil is only a placebo-we need concerted efforts at energy-alternatives.

More urban centers in Hampton Roads (vice suburbs) could finally bring us together. We have more in common than differences. And lead us to a truly regional agenda to get things done. We're stronger together than divided. I wrote about this on my blog recently.

[urbanfan]

The next step would be to commission a Draft Enviromental Impact Statement (DEIS) for a Newtown Road - Dome site extension.

The $64,000 Question is "Does the FTA approve?" Theoretically, you could build the line as a PPTA without Federal money if you could draw investors. However, Federal money makes it infinitely easier. Therefore, it's not a done deal until the FTA stamps it "RECCOMENDED".

The FTA will overwhelmingly support the extension. When it was actually a part of the original project the FTA was already on the verge of approving the project until the Beach pulled out. The ridership number almost double when you run the line to the beach.

[vdogg]

Righting a wrong on light rail

IN 1999, a week after a referendum in which Virginia Beach voters rejected light rail by a 55-45 margin, the City Council unequivocally resolved to keep the transit system out of Virginia Beach.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Righting a wrong on light rail

Great article, and I enjoy how bluntly it critiques the VB City Gov't for its inaction and unfamiliarity with the realities of the needs of their own city.

And the Southeastern Expressway is the priority of Oberndorf's, not the LR? The same stretch of expressway that was proposed like... 10 years ago? And has failed to gain any serious consideration among both voters and those controlling state pursestrings...? ...That has made virtually no movement of any sort since its initial proposal...? What a waste of potential.

VB needs to hire a new team of urban planners to actually create a cohesive network for the whole city, with LR as a central component... bah.

[lammius]

^ more like 25 years ago!

[spiker3]

Lightrail Proposal Passage Met With Awe

You might call it "the little bill that could."

A proposal to study an extension of Norfolk's light rail line to near the Oceanfront somewhat unexpectedly passed the General Assembly during a largely fruitless transportation special session that ended earlier this month.

And it gained more steam in recent days when Gov. Timothy M. Kaine signed it into law.

I didn't see it, but this bill has been signed and goes into effect in November, details are in the article but basically call for studies and there is $15 million from the state set aside for purchasing right of way.

Here's what i don't understand, and Henry help me out if you could:

Comments and posts talk about Virginia Beach residents dont want light rail, taxpayers said no. I thought the referendums were for paying for the light rail by raising the sales tax? Was there a simple vote on yes or no to light rail, if so when? If there wasn't, then the argument is moot until there's actual an announcement about the cost of this hypothetical project. Can someone clear this up?

[metalman]

This quote from said article makes mention of that referendum...

"So while the bill is only a first step in the process of stretching a light rail line into Virginia Beach, it is an important one in a city whose voters and politicians rejected light rail less than a decade ago."

When was that '99, 2000?

No pun intended, but the tide is definitely turning in public favor of light rail. Ok, maybe pun intended

[vdogg]

Lightrail Proposal Passage Met With Awe

I didn't see it, but this bill has been signed and goes into effect in November, details are in the article but basically call for studies and there is $15 million from the state set aside for purchasing right of way.

Here's what i don't understand, and Henry help me out if you could:

Comments and posts talk about Virginia Beach residents dont want light rail, taxpayers said no. I thought the referendums were for paying for the light rail by raising the sales tax? Was there a simple vote on yes or no to light rail, if so when? If there wasn't, then the argument is moot until there's actual an announcement about the cost of this hypothetical project. Can someone clear this up?

IIRC it was an up or down vote on paying for light rail, not light rail itself. The referendum was non-binding.

[vdogg]

Wow, the Nimbys had been quiet the last few articles but they are hot today! And here I had thought that they had gone away.

[spiker3]

IIRC it was an up or down vote on paying for light rail, not light rail itself. The referendum was non-binding.

So i'm correct in assessing that there is no vote out there from taxpayers saying NO to light rail? Unlike what these NIMBYs were saying?

[Henry_Ryto]

Virginia Beach's light rail referendum was November 2, 1999. The ballot question asked about LRT, with the routing and financing to later be decided by City Council. The "top option" at the time was a Gas Tax, but the campaign largely skirted the issue of how to specifically pay for it. The result was 55.6% "No", 44.4% "Yes".

Polls now show a majority of Virginia Beach residents supporting LRT, which is why elected officials are moving forward slowly. Even John Moss, for his Mayoral campaign, has trotted out a "wait and see" position, knowing he can't run as an openly anti-LRT candidate.

As for the whining, it has to do with the internal politics of the VBTA, not LRT or popular consent. You couldn't put the 1999 "No" coalition together again.

[carolinaboy]

Looks like this "choo choo to nowhere" [as it has been called] is gaining some "steam" towards a somewhere. Love it.