Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit

[urbanlife]

gotta love the typical hateful comments on the Pilot. Though I find it funny how many of them that appose to light rail say the city should just take the land from NS. Honestly I think it would be in the city's best interest to have a back up plan. Maybe looking at the cost of running light rail down VB Blvd, which would be very doable. I am not sure the costs for something like that, but it could potentially be cheaper that acquiring this stretch of land.

[mlsimons]

So, does the city at least have the option to eminent domain the right of way. I mean the property is condemned right....and it would be used for a public project? What are the city's options?

[varider]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/02/virginia-b...goal-40-million

[Norfolk4Life]

I don't understand why the city can not aquire the Norfolk southern right away and continue using standard passenger trains. That would save the city millions and it would bring alil history back to the norfolk southern railline.. History does repeat it self. Having a passenger train run from the Norfolk's current Lighrail system to Town Center, Rosemont, lynnhaven, the city wouldnt have to put out soo much. Just throw a standard passenger train and that fixes the money issues for the time being. The train can be named Beach Express.. And it fits.. its running from the beach to Town center to Newtown.. Lightrail doesnt seem all that mass to me or anyone.. If you wanna invest money in Mass transit.. It needs to be worth wild.. Mass transit is a fast network of transportation.. Lightrail is a light transportation system.. Standard Trains are Mass Transit.. Look at the Fredericksburg Train that runs from Fredericksburg to washington dc..I dont recall the name. Once the Beach Express train becomes functional and start making money. they could put the money aside for future lightrail options which could pay for the system without taxpayer dollars. Once the city feels like its time to extend lightrail to the beach. While the Beach Express is still active.. the lighrail could start being built across the city.. Princess Anne court house district, Sentara PA campus, TCC/Colleges campuses, The new project on PA/Indepedence .Renassicace Park. Another Mixed use development. Kempsville district.. the city could continue using Beach Express until its satisfied with the transportation network it has paid for. Or they cuold stop the system and create a new modern transportation system. Monorail or extend lightrail like they wanted. it would be smart to keep the current rail line and use standard passenger trains to make money from the current system. Tak advantage of the opporunity.

If they tried to run any vehicle down the tracks without completely reconstructing the tracks, it would derail. The old tracks are loose, warped, etc. Somewhere someone made a comment wanting to know why Norfolk couldn't reuse the old rail bridges. The answer to that: they would collapse. They creaked when you wanked on them let alone if you tired to run a train across.

Bottom line: to run a standard passenger train would cost the same or more than to do LRT. Either way gets rails rebuilt. a standard train would need fuel. It would need its own maintenance yard since it couldn't share the Tide's. It would be a waste.

[rusthebuss]

N&S abandoned the lines cause it cost too much to maintain and they moved the rock crushing plant(Vulcan) to Norfolk. They really can't use eminent domain cause they really have no clear cut use for it. They would still have to pay fair market value for it. Vabeach has no reason to cry about the price when they had the chance to purchase it at half that cost.

[mlsimons]

N&S abandoned the lines cause it cost too much to maintain and they moved the rock crushing plant(Vulcan) to Norfolk. They really can't use eminent domain cause they really have no clear cut use for it. They would still have to pay fair market value for it. Vabeach has no reason to cry about the price when they had the chance to purchase it at half that cost.

The only reason why the assessed value went up is because of the light rail option. Other than that the land is pretty much useless. only 60 feet wide. In my opinion the land should be eminent domain'd and a real assessment should be made for less than 10 million. Yeah right tho

[rusthebuss]

The only reason why the assessed value went up is because of the light rail option. Other than that the land is pretty much useless. only 60 feet wide. In my opinion the land should be eminent domain'd and a real assessment should be made for less than 10 million. Yeah right tho

Thats not the only reason the land went up. It runs through high developed areas.

[vdogg]

The only reason why the assessed value went up is because of the light rail option. Other than that the land is pretty much useless. only 60 feet wide. In my opinion the land should be eminent domain'd and a real assessment should be made for less than 10 million. Yeah right tho

You're close but it is the value of the land around that area, not the light rail option, that caused the increased cost. The development of TC has sent assessments for all the properties in that area through the roof.

[HarryVB]

The City is soo backwards.. The land would have been soo much cheaper..the norfolk southern Right away.. IfThey should have acquired the Norfolk Southern Line back in 1998..The lightrail would have been built in 2001..with the completion of phase I of town center and other phases would have followed like now..Phase 2, 3, and now 4.. But lightrail would have already existed..Pumping millions of dollars from Riders on the Tide from 2001-2009...Because.Norfolk would have Voted yes at the time va beach would have vote yes..and The region wouldnt be soo far back in time.. without mass transit. by now.. The Lightrail would have been expanded to williamsburg/buschgardens, Norfolk International airport, NOB, Damneck, Greenbrier, Suffolk Harborview Town Center, Hampton...We would have been ahead of the game... and there would have been a major boom in development all over the hampton roads area....

Edited February 6, 2009 by HarryVB

[varider]

The City is soo backwards.. They should have acquired the Norfolk Southern Line back in 1998..The lightrail would have been built in 2001..with the completion of phase I of town center...Norfolk would have Voted yes at the time va beach would have vote yes..and The region wouldnt be soo far back in time.. without mass transit. by now.. The Lightrail would have been expanded to williamsburg/buschgardens, Norfolk International airport, NOB, Damneck, Greenbrier, Suffolk Harborview Town Center, Hampton...We would have been ahead of the game... and there would have been a major boom in development all over the hampton roads area....

True.. But in a few years this will happen anyway..And if we would have got light rail ten years ago it wouldn't have been as nice of a train..

[HarryVB]

From what I recall. The tide trains looked the same from 10yrs ago..lol.. same technology. hence the name Tide

[Henry_Ryto]

The City is soo backwards.. The land would have been soo much cheaper..the norfolk southern Right away.. IfThey should have acquired the Norfolk Southern Line back in 1998..The lightrail would have been built in 2001..with the completion of phase I of town center and other phases would have followed like now..Phase 2, 3, and now 4.. But lightrail would have already existed..Pumping millions of dollars from Riders on the Tide from 2001-2009...Because.Norfolk would have Voted yes at the time va beach would have vote yes..and The region wouldnt be soo far back in time.. without mass transit. by now.. The Lightrail would have been expanded to williamsburg/buschgardens, Norfolk International airport, NOB, Damneck, Greenbrier, Suffolk Harborview Town Center, Hampton...We would have been ahead of the game... and there would have been a major boom in development all over the hampton roads area....

Three problems with that scenario:

1. City Council didn't approve Town Center until January, 2000. In '98 we didn't know about it.

2. Had we built earlier, the resulting TOD would certainly have got Oceana BRACed.

3. The land in the Norfolk Southern Corridor wasn't rezoned for transit until December, 2003.

Edited February 7, 2009 by Henry_Ryto

[HarryVB]

I Just found out information on the Circuit City Lot. They are going to turn the property into a Mass Transit Station once Lightrail is constructed. The lightrail is going to go from The oceanfront to Town Center.. And you will have to transfer to the Norfolk lightrail train which will also stop at the Town Center Location(Circuit City Lot) With a pedestrian Bridge from Dicks connecting with the Transit Station..This will allow the train to drop people off wanting to go to town center or the oceanfront. The lightrail train From Town Center to the Oceanfront during the summer will be larger for a bigger capacity for the Tourists and Locals..

[urbanlife]

that makes alot of sense, I figured they would want to do something like that.

[varider]

I Just found out information on the Circuit City Lot. They are going to turn the property into a Mass Transit Station once Lightrail is constructed. The lightrail is going to go from The oceanfront to Town Center.. And you will have to transfer to the Norfolk lightrail train which will also stop at the Town Center Location(Circuit City Lot) With a pedestrian Bridge from Dicks connecting with the Transit Station..This will allow the train to drop people off wanting to go to town center or the oceanfront. The lightrail train From Town Center to the Oceanfront during the summer will be larger for a bigger capacity for the Tourists and Locals..

Did you get that info from the city??

Oh and the Transit Vision Plan For Hampton Roads comes out tommorow according to the HRMPO

[mlsimons]

I Just found out information on the Circuit City Lot. They are going to turn the property into a Mass Transit Station once Lightrail is constructed. The lightrail is going to go from The oceanfront to Town Center.. And you will have to transfer to the Norfolk lightrail train which will also stop at the Town Center Location(Circuit City Lot) With a pedestrian Bridge from Dicks connecting with the Transit Station..This will allow the train to drop people off wanting to go to town center or the oceanfront. The lightrail train From Town Center to the Oceanfront during the summer will be larger for a bigger capacity for the Tourists and Locals..

That doesn't really make sense to me. I understand from a tourist perspective, making them get off the train at town center. But the Norfolk LRT line has the capacity to expand to a three car train. Economically it would make more sense to keep riders on the same train and cut down commute time.

If I'm wrong, can you please explain in more detail the motive for this theory.

Also...does this mean that the city is purchasing the circuit city lot? Now I am in favor of this!

[Henry_Ryto]

Did you get that info from the city??

Oh and the Transit Vision Plan For Hampton Roads comes out tommorow according to the HRMPO

Due to technical problems, it's not posted yet. Hope the Vision Plan is up this evening.

[varider]

Due to technical problems, it's not posted yet. Hope the Vision Plan is up this evening.

Yeah either that or they didn't finish it.. ha jk

but yeah hopefully i'm curious to see it.

[vdogg]

Moved discussion about the HRT transit plan to here.

[mlsimons]

If only VB could make light rail "shovel-ready"...

[ronsmytheiii]

Preliminary agreement for the acquisition of the Norfolk Southern Line by virginia beach:

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/02/its-end-li...il-negotiations

[varider]

E Mail From Va Beach...

"We are currently finalizing the negotiations and acquisition process for the Norfolk /Southern row. Also, we will be starting the Alternatives Analysis and Environmental Impact study for the possibility of light rail in the corridor in April or May of this year. That study will take at least a year to complete. So we

[mlsimons]

E Mail From Va Beach...

"We are currently finalizing the negotiations and acquisition process for the Norfolk /Southern row. Also, we will be starting the Alternatives Analysis and Environmental Impact study for the possibility of light rail in the corridor in April or May of this year. That study will take at least a year to complete. So we're a few years off before any construction could start, if it is determined to be feasible based on that study."

I keep hearing that we are really not to expect light rail in VB til 2014...if this is correct its important to note that the midtown tunnel expansion is expected to be completed by 2015. We've all been aware that there is a option to run light rail through the new midtown tunnel, so I think its safe to guess that Light rail into portsmouth is possible by 2016.

Can you imagine?

[urbanlife]

I keep hearing that we are really not to expect light rail in VB til 2014...if this is correct its important to note that the midtown tunnel expansion is expected to be completed by 2015. We've all been aware that there is a option to run light rail through the new midtown tunnel, so I think its safe to guess that Light rail into portsmouth is possible by 2016.

Can you imagine?

Actually no, I never thought my hometown would have light rail. It does make me really happy to hear VB moving forward on it. Plus it makes sense to want to include light rail with any new bridge or tunnel because those things are expensive and you only really have one shot at it.

[Mobius57]

Don't forget Norfolk also needs to start thinking about LR lines running to the airport and the naval base (preferably in one big loop), those are two important locations.