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Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit


vdogg

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The thing I dont understand is how European countries are so ahead of us in rail. I was watching CNN and they said trains in America will have a tough time reaching max speeds of 150 in our lifetime. Thats crazy. But as far as Light Rail in Hampton Roads my ESTIMATES/WISHES for completion are-

Newtown to Oceanfront: 2016

EVMS to ODU: 2017

EVMS to MIDTOWN Ptown: 2026

Harbor Park to NC: 2030

and I'm not going further than that..

If I was Mayor of Hampton Roads, Va I would fight for higher taxes specifically for transportation so we could build all of these lines simultaneously. The current system (Prelim. Planning, EIS, Lobby, Wait In line, ect.) will take a century to build light rail all over HR.

What makes you think that raising taxes is going to help anything? They can't even manage the tax money that they are getting now.

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My Ideal Plan would be a 1 cent gas tax on every gallon of gas pumped in the 7 cities that went STRAIGHT into a transportation fund. How hard could that be to manage?

All these tax plans were for something but end up being snatched for other things. This is the exact reason people voted against the 1 cent tax raise before. Do you notice they will not put any wording that will not allow the money to go to other things? Good luck getting all cities to accept the tax that might not benefit as much as other cities.

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All these tax plans were for something but end up being snatched for other things. This is the exact reason people voted against the 1 cent tax raise before. Do you notice they will not put any wording that will not allow the money to go to other things? Good luck getting all cities to accept the tax that might not benefit as much as other cities.

Yeah.. Thats why i said "My ideal plan" and "If i were mayor." Honestly there's nothing in Hampton Roads that all cities can agree on. That is why everything here is delayed.

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The thing I dont understand is how European countries are so ahead of us in rail. I was watching CNN and they said trains in America will have a tough time reaching max speeds of 150 in our lifetime. Thats crazy. But as far as Light Rail in Hampton Roads my ESTIMATES/WISHES for completion are-

Newtown to Oceanfront: 2016

EVMS to ODU: 2017

EVMS to MIDTOWN Ptown: 2026

Harbor Park to NC: 2030

and I'm not going further than that..

If I was Mayor of Hampton Roads, Va I would fight for higher taxes specifically for transportation so we could build all of these lines simultaneously. The current system (Prelim. Planning, EIS, Lobby, Wait In line, ect.) will take a century to build light rail all over HR.

Part of the reason that rail works in European cities is because of the high level of density within the European cities. New York is a perfect example of how rail mass transit works well in density cities. Density and the historic availability of rail mass transit results in a much lower level of car dependency and thus car ownership in European cities. Most major cities outside of the US do not sprawl as US cities do. Sprawl makes it difficult to develop reasonable commuter rail networks.

Also, when one considers the lower levels of auto ownership in European cities, rail would be the obvious choice for inter-city travel. Also, prior to the creation of AMTRAK, freight railroads also ran their own passenger service. Now, outside of the Northeast Corridor, our passenger trains share the rails with freight trains that are owned by the freight railroads. The fastest freights are intermodals which can run 70mph on track that is constructed for those types of speeds. However, most freights are not running that fast nor do the freight railroads have a reason to construct their tracks to handle those speeds. This would require superelevation, longer curve radii, sealed corridors with grade separations, etc. Quite an expensive endeavor. European intercity passenger trains are electrified, they run on their own tracks, government subsidized, and there are no at-grade crossings. Also, Europeans have a different view of passenger rail and public transit. Because our lives are built around our cars, we expect mass transit to offer the same level of convenience.

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So I guess this means we are looking around 2014-2015 ("BEST CASE") before this thing STARTS construction meaning we are looking about 2017-2018 ("BEST CASE") before 10 miles of light rail from NEWTOWN to the BEACH is completed. Man i was looking forward to it being done by 2013.. I don't see why it would take 4-5 years after the EIS is done unless it will take them that long to lobby for funding. Oh well I guess it's not too bad. He could have said they were paving it for BRT or something!! ha So by 2018 we will have a 17 mile light rail line from DN to the Oceanfront. At that rate HR will have a wonderful transit system by 2085. Hopefully I'm one of those people that live until there 120. :rolleyes:

To tell you the truth, I would rather that they spend the extra time and effort in orchestrating an effective construction and line plan than simply stumbling out of the starting line. Remember that this line will be much longer and more difficult than the norfolk section, perhaps they should do a phase 1 and 2 to get part of it up and running more quickly (like Newtown to Town center, and then work on extending to the oceanfront)

Edited by ronsmytheiii
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To tell you the truth, I would rather that they spend the extra time and effort in orchestrating and effective construction and line plan than simply stumbling out of the starting line. Remember that this line will be much longer and more difficult than the norfolk section, perhaps they should do a phase 1 and 2 to get part of it up and running more quickly (like Newtown to Town center, and then work on extending to the oceanfront)

I really like that idea. Maybe if they did it that way we could have Downtown to Town Center by 2013. Then to the ocean front by 2016.

Edited by varider
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I don't see how the VB line would be more difficult than the Norfolk line, VB has the NS line all the way through the city that cuts a perfect and easy path for the rail line. Norfolk had to cut through downtown. Heck the NS line cuts a perfect path through Town center. The only part outside the NS right of way is the terminus at the oceanfront.

The Extension also only 3 or so miles longer, and in a straight line.

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That poll is completely misleading. This is what the link to the poll says "Poll: Should the city spend the money?"

This is the actual poll question after you click on the link "Should Virginia Beach hold a public referendum before proceeding with any further expenditure on light rail?"

What complete and utter BS. They should be ashamed of themselves. It seems obvious that most people only looked at the wording of the link and then voted yes.

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Here's what I think needs to happen. The Va Beach city council needs to grow some balls and not listen to the suburban racist retirees in Va Beach. A referendum is out of the question. Why wont the people wake up and see that a mass transit line from Downtown Norfolk to Town Center and The Oceanfront would be a BEAUTY. Without light rail Town Center will probably not be any more successful than it already is. In my opinion the people could care less about the cost because Va Beach will only have to pay a small percentage for the train anyway. Most of the money will come from the federal government and the state. The only thing they are worried about is the "thugs" coming to their upscale town center. I cannot believe the city is even contemplating a referendum. I'm sure people in Newport News, Portsmouth, Hampton, or even Chesapeake would not complain about a train. The comments on the pilot are so stupid. This is really irritating me. Ughh. :angry: :angry:

edit: And if they must resort to a referendum they need a massive multi million dollar media blitz before the vote. I'm talking about commercials, billboards, local news, local newspapers, door to door, ect. The Beach absolutely cannot pass up this opportunity. No light rail will be the death of Virginia Beach and maybe all of Hampton Roads.

Edited by varider
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Honestly, people in the projects/ low income neighborhoods of Norfolk will not be going to Town Center. There is nothing there for them to do at the time. They want cheap clubs, cheap urban clothing, and cheap food, none of which are at Town Center. So the only "thugs" that would ride the train to Virginia Beach would be going to the Oceanfront, which I think is totally fine. Why would they take the train to come to Town Center just to hang out? It doesn't work that way. If they want a place to hang out they obviously go to Downtown. People in Va Beach are so narrow minded. I say forget all of them and build the train. The old racists will be dead soon anyway then us young people can party and take the train wherever we want. Oh and last point, what criminal would take public transportation to commit a crime!? They would have to be pretty dumb. I just don't see it happening. BUILD THE TRAIN!

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My post on the pilot today in regards to suburbanization:

$190 million dollars: the cost of suburbanization! All of you subsidize hatin fiscal conservative, please recognize that sprawl is the biggest form of subsidized housing. Not only is the upfront cost unbelievably high: the cost to carve out new subdivisions and extend utilities, but also the cost to maintain low density inefficient housing is much greater than in high density city centers. This $190 million should be used to invest in mass transit! Smart-growth is efficient and benefits more and protects the environment and tax payers from the cost of sprawl. I mean don't believe me, just ask any urban economists or regional planner..

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/04/va-beach-p...grades-rejected

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At this point I try to talk about the TOD and how that will provide more employment opportunities within VB which will help diversify the tax base, taking a tax burden off the home owners, which VB currently has a 88% residential tax base. This should appeal to the fiscal conservative, which is the case for most of the white flight VB population. However from here the conversation goes to "Well the MARTA was supposed to do all of this for Atlanta, and it has been a haven for criminal activity." I counter this with examples like Charlotte and Portland, and DC. But to no avail. The VB conservative is deadset on race as being the biggest fear.

one of the main reasons why I had to move away...if the people in the region fear change, then it was time for me to change where I lived. I hope light rail becomes just as important to that region as all the highway bridges and tunnels the region has now. I would hate to see racial issues get in the way of a good idea.

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Oh and last point, what criminal would take public transportation to commit a crime!? They would have to be pretty dumb. I just don't see it happening.

Actually, there are criminals that dumb. Check out this story from Philadelphia.

Men rob bank, take SEPTA trolley to escape

The good news is, after the first idiots, nobody else will try this. :rolleyes:

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it has always perplexed me as to how you could argue that criminals would ride from norfolk to virginia beach on the train. this might have been a possibility many years ago when downtown had more crime. everyone who sticks to this argument should look up actual crime statistics. Town Center and Downtown Norfolk have THE SAME numbers of violent crimes - 12 in TC and 11 in DN (which is saying something, considering the number of clubs in Downtown compared to Town Center). Both Town Center and Downtown fare better than the Oceanfront, which had 19 including 2 rapes in the same time period. VB needs to realize that the center of their city is becoming urban whether they like it or not. It has to. VB has run out of room to expand the suburbia of the past. They must either increase density or sit idle. Everyone knows that when a city idles, it decays. Nobody wants VB to decay. I don't, you don't. Come on Beach, keep moving.

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My post on the pilot today in regards to suburbanization:

$190 million dollars: the cost of suburbanization! All of you subsidize hatin fiscal conservative, please recognize that sprawl is the biggest form of subsidized housing. Not only is the upfront cost unbelievably high: the cost to carve out new subdivisions and extend utilities, but also the cost to maintain low density inefficient housing is much greater than in high density city centers. This $190 million should be used to invest in mass transit! Smart-growth is efficient and benefits more and protects the environment and tax payers from the cost of sprawl. I mean don't believe me, just ask any urban economists or regional planner..

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/04/va-beach-p...grades-rejected

Sprawl is exactly what's wrong with this area. Connection, which mass transits helps fix, is a solution. And how much time do we spend everyday driving to and fro?

Edited by Sky06
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