Virginia Beach Light Rail and Transit

[Padman]

What sometimes gets lost in these discussions is the tendency for operation and maintenance costs to add up over time. Subsidies may be available to cover some of this, but over time we will really be the ones footing the bill for much of this project. With that in mind, I think it's really important to get the system built to the Oceanfront and to the Naval Base, with several well placed park and ride lots, a feeder bus system, and compatible land use plans.

[varider]

What sometimes gets lost in these discussions is the tendency for operation and maintenance costs to add up over time. Subsidies may be available to cover some of this, but over time we will really be the ones footing the bill for much of this project. With that in mind, I think it's really important to get the system built to the Oceanfront and to the Naval Base, with several well placed park and ride lots, a feeder bus system, and compatible land use plans.

That's true.. I'd like to see an enormous LR system up to Williamsburg, out to Suffolk, down to NC, etc.. But I want it to be managed much better than the DC Metro has been over the past couple years.

Edited October 11, 2009 by varider

[Mobius57]

Who would sign that other than his VBTA friends? A normal Virgina Beach citizen would be like "no way dude, get out of my face with that paper."

You'd be suprized...

[Henry_Ryto]

I've been very busy recently, so let cover several posts here at once.

Wally Erb is a failed politico who has lost at three runs for office: state Senate (1995), City Council (2000), and Clerk of the Circuit Court (2003). Insiders know the reason he "left" the Tidewater Libertarian Party (of which he served as Chairman) and the VBTA a couple years ago was that he wants to run for the 85th District House of Delegates seat (now held by Bob Tata). Therefore, his referendum farce serves two purposes: he does his master's Robert Dean's bidding, while getting his name regularly into the media for his House run.

I wouldn't take Erb's group seriously. First, given the VBTA's tiny volunteer pool, it will be a stretch to get the valid number of signatures legally. Second, City Council (led by Glen Davis) has already indicated they will ignore any referendum prior to the SDEIS getting back.

In the end, Erb's farce may be a blessing in disguise: he may discredit the very idea of putting it to referendum later.

Yes, race is a factor in the VBTA campaign: no group that Robert Dean has served as Maximum Leader of (CACI, VBTA, and TLP) has ever had a minority member on it's Board of Directors. As for the age issue, Vice Chair/Transportation Chair Reid Greenmun is the youngest member of the VBTA Board...at age 59. On The Imam of Insanity (a.k.a. Greenmun), he's pushing multiple conspiracy theories here:

1. He claims that Karl Marx was The Father of Modern Urban Planning, thus "urban = Marxist".

2. He claims that light rail is about turning voting patterns in Virginia Beach from Republican to Democratic.

3. He claims the ultimate aim of TOD is to eliminate all private automobiles.

4. He claims that the expansion of mass transit is about making us more dependent on government, thus more likely to vote liberally.

I could go on, but you see the guy is insane. Yet the VBTA breakfast cultists buy into his b.s., so they believe LRT is The Mother of All Horrors.

[varider]

http://www.insidebiz.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?si...6661A071B761B9E

The city of Virginia Beach has released the final draft of its comprehensive plan, which is a blueprint for how the city will grow in the future.

Included in the plan is a section on light rail and how it could fit into the city

[mistermetaj]

I've been very busy recently, so let cover several posts here at once.

Wally Erb is a failed politico who has lost at three runs for office: state Senate (1995), City Council (2000), and Clerk of the Circuit Court (2003). Insiders know the reason he "left" the Tidewater Libertarian Party (of which he served as Chairman) and the VBTA a couple years ago was that he wants to run for the 85th District House of Delegates seat (now held by Bob Tata). Therefore, his referendum farce serves two purposes: he does his master's Robert Dean's bidding, while getting his name regularly into the media for his House run.

I wouldn't take Erb's group seriously. First, given the VBTA's tiny volunteer pool, it will be a stretch to get the valid number of signatures legally. Second, City Council (led by Glen Davis) has already indicated they will ignore any referendum prior to the SDEIS getting back.

In the end, Erb's farce may be a blessing in disguise: he may discredit the very idea of putting it to referendum later.

Yes, race is a factor in the VBTA campaign: no group that Robert Dean has served as Maximum Leader of (CACI, VBTA, and TLP) has ever had a minority member on it's Board of Directors. As for the age issue, Vice Chair/Transportation Chair Reid Greenmun is the youngest member of the VBTA Board...at age 59. On The Imam of Insanity (a.k.a. Greenmun), he's pushing multiple conspiracy theories here:

1. He claims that Karl Marx was The Father of Modern Urban Planning, thus "urban = Marxist".

2. He claims that light rail is about turning voting patterns in Virginia Beach from Republican to Democratic.

3. He claims the ultimate aim of TOD is to eliminate all private automobiles.

4. He claims that the expansion of mass transit is about making us more dependent on government, thus more likely to vote liberally.

I could go on, but you see the guy is insane. Yet the VBTA breakfast cultists buy into his b.s., so they believe LRT is The Mother of All Horrors.

Sounds like this guy has listened to a little too much Neil Boortz on NPR. Public Schools = Marxist to nuts like these also.

[ronsmytheiii]

There has been talk in the Norfolk Light rail thread that the Navy has endorsed LRT from the Norfolk Navy Bbase to Oceana, maybe with with DoD pressure they could expedite the federal process for EIS and federal funds, not to mention new funds from the DoD itself.

[urbanlife]

Which would be interesting because that would mean two lines for VB, one to the oceanfront and one that splits off to go to Oceana.

[varider]

Watch the City Council session from Tuesday. It's under "Council Comments."

With the support of the military, it seems like Virginia Beach has this light rail thing in the bag.

The ridership will go through the roof once extended from NOB to downtown to TC to NAS Oceana to the Oceanfront.

How cool would it look if we apply for federal funding and send the signatures of several Admirals! That's a huge endorsement in my opinion.

[RJWGMU]

There has been talk in the Norfolk Light rail thread that the Navy has endorsed LRT from the Norfolk Navy Bbase to Oceana, maybe with with DoD pressure they could expedite the federal process for EIS and federal funds, not to mention new funds from the DoD itself.

Sounds great, but where is your source?

[varider]

Sounds great, but where is your source?

Source: Virginia Beach City Council.

[Henry_Ryto]

Source: Virginia Beach City Council.

Actually the endorsement was last Thursday when Rear Admiral Mark Boensel gave a Presentation to the TDCHR. (Yes, it may have come up in Council Comments on Tuesday.)

If you read my blog, you would have known that a week ago....

[varider]

Ha I check your blog everyday! I used C.C. as the source because they specifically talked about possible DoD funding.

[varider]

Here is some more information about the AA/EIS.

Prelim. station locations (looking at an additional 14-15 stations + 11 in Norfolk), rendering of HRT BRT (which we don't want), project timeline, etc.

I can't wait for this thing to be done and the solid station locations, cost estimates, and ridership projections come out. Any predictions for cost, ridership?

[varider]

I have a question.

Part of the reason the Norfolk starter line took as long as it did to construct was because of all the utility relocations and embedded tracks through the downtown area.

Since the Virginia Beach line will be built on the old NS ROW from Newtown to the Oceanfront, does that mean no utilities will have to be relocated or tracks embedded? I was thinking about it. That train (from downtown to the oceanfront) will probably be able to hit 50-60 mph betweeen certain stations.

& do you think the Virginia Beach segment will have two-three car stations? And will that require Norfolk to lengthen their stations?

[ronsmytheiii]

I have a question.

Part of the reason the Norfolk starter line took as long as it did to construct was because of all the utility relocations and embedded tracks through the downtown area.

Since the Virginia Beach line will be built on the old NS ROW from Newtown to the Oceanfront, does that mean no utilities will have to be relocated or tracks embedded? I was thinking about it. That train (from downtown to the oceanfront) will probably be able to hit 50-60 mph betweeen certain stations.

& do you think the Virginia Beach segment will have two-three car stations? And will that require Norfolk to lengthen their stations?

The tracks will probably have to be embedded into the roadway east of Birdneck where the current track ends, since it will go up on/next to Birdneck then travel down the median along 19th street to the dome site. The entire Norfolk right a way will have to be redone in the Norfolk style anyhow for the two tracks. With the track raised near Pembroke I would imagine some utilities will have to be relocated along with the beachfront, so probably just as much if more work than Norfolk. Fortunately there does not seem to be too many turns compared to Downtown Norfolk.

[varider]

I guess we will see when the SDEIS/AA is released..

I'm curious to see the exact alignment. I hope it's not too costly, though. Under $500m would be nice..

[varider]

I have a question.

According to the HRTVP, for the Virginia Beach Light Rail extension to meet New Starts guidelines, riderhsip estimates need to exceed 38,000/day. But the estimate is 20,700 at the most. Does that mean that New Starts won't be an option? Or does it not really matter? I'm confused.

And just in case your curious, the Naval Station extension via Military Hwy/I-64 already exceeds New Starts requirements. It needs 38,516/day and it's projected to carry 42,400/day

[vdogg]

I have a question.

According to the HRTVP, for the Virginia Beach Light Rail extension to meet New Starts guidelines, riderhsip estimates need to exceed 38,000/day. But the estimate is 20,700 at the most. Does that mean that New Starts won't be an option? Or does it not really matter? I'm confused.

And just in case your curious, the Naval Station extension via Military Hwy/I-64 already exceeds New Starts requirements. It needs 38,516/day and it's projected to carry 42,400/day

I don't think it would qualify under new starts to begin with as technically the Va. Beach leg would be an extension of an existing system. I think the feds have a different funding mechanism for extensions.

[varider]

I don't think it would qualify under new starts to begin with as technically the Va. Beach leg would be an extension of an existing system. I think the feds have a different funding mechanism for extensions.

If I'm not mistaken, New Starts is the same source of funding for extensions and starter lines. But I may be wrong. Everything I've seen about the VBTES has a schedule for NewStarts funding.

[orulz]

No, the "new starts" program can apply to extensions or even improvements of existing lines. For example, Charlotte plans on pursuing new starts funding for the Northeast extension of its existing blue line.

The program's name "new starts" is really a misnomer.

[varider]

I don't know if this has ever been posted on UP, but It just seems interesting to me.

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. § 1. Within 90 days of the effective date of this act, the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation shall solicit proposals under the Public-Private Transportation Act of 1995 (§ 56-556 et seq. of the Code of Virginia) for the extension of the proposed light rail system in the City of Norfolk from its currently planned terminus at Newtown Road in the City of Norfolk along the Interstate Route 264 corridor on right-of-way of the Norfolk Southern Railway to the beachfront in the City of Virginia Beach.

§ 2. The General Assembly hereby finds and determines that construction of the project described is in the public interest, and qualifies for public funding, to the extent that any may be required, from the Rail Enhancement Fund, established by § 33.1-221.1:1.1 of the Code of Virginia, the Transportation Partnership Opportunity Fund, established by § 33.1-221.1:8 of the Code of Virginia, either or both.

I wonder what made the GA enact a Bill just for our light rail extension. It seems like the State is on board to fund the extension to the Oceanfront. I'm liking our odds in securing funding.

[urbanvb]

^ it does sounds quite encouraging.

[varider]

It does sound encouraging.

This is a very interesting and exciting process [Light Rail]. I am so excited to watch the progression of our regional urban rail transit system and can't wait for the day that I can ride to all the major activity centers in the region [downtown Norfolk + Va Beach, Oceanfront, Wards Corner, Military Hwy, Greenbrier, Williamsburg, City Center, Harbour View, etc.] without the hassle of parking, wear and tear/gas, etc. I plan to move near a rail line in the future and hope to be able to barely use my car.

Anyhow, I wonder how many additional rail cars will be needed, if any, for the extension to the Resort Area. I'm guessing ridership will be high enough to warrant two (or three?) car stations.

[varider]

The city of Virginia Beach has released the final draft of its comprehensive plan, which is a blueprint for how the city will grow in the future.

Included in the plan is a section on light rail and how it could fit into the city’s transportation master plan.

Ten years ago, a majority of Beach voters opposed light rail in a referendum, dooming the public transit project.

Fear of higher taxes was cited as one of the main reasons for opposing a light rail link with Norfolk.

But as construction of The Tide takes place in Norfolk, the study said, public anticipation has grown and there is interest in extending the transit system to Virginia Beach and other regional employment nodes such as Naval Station Norfolk.

Norfolk’s light rail system will begin operating in 2010.

The 7-mile route will connect Fort Norfolk Plaza on the city’s west side with Sentara Leigh Hospital and Newtown Road on the east side.

Negotiations are under way for the city of Virginia Beach to buy Norfolk Southern’s 10.6-mile right-of-way from Newtown Road to the Oceanfront for $40 million.

During the public participation process for the comprehensive plan, there was repeated support for expansion of light rail into Virginia Beach and the Oceanfront, the study said.

Mayors of both Virginia Beach and Norfolk support extending light rail from Norfolk to Virginia Beach.

http://www.gohrt.com/pressroom/?p=655